Schools Teaching Too Much Hitler

[Israelite9191]

I guess I misinterpreted your tone of voice Asclepius, my appoligies. The meaning of my original post was that the Holocaust must be remembered so that similar events would not happen again, in this case mass genocide and preferably all genocide, however I never said that humanity as a whole remembers the Holocaust or has learned its lesson from the Holocaust. That's my whole reason for arguing that more about the Holocuast must be taught, so that people will learn its lesson.

Yes, the Holocaust is not unique in that it was a genocide, but it was unique in the extent and brutality. It is also true that it was not more important, I never used the phrase "more important." My argument is that the Holocaust is the example of genocide with the most documented evidence, the most loss, and the most inhumane actions carried out. By studying the Holocaust people can gain an understanding of what genocide is and apply that knowledge to the understanding of other, less documented, genocides. The horrors of the Rwandan Geocide, Armenian Genocide, Tibetan Genocide, and others must be remembered and people must understand them. The best way to do that is by first coming to deeply understand the Holocaust.

 

[Greek Stud]

I agree with having the Jewish Holocaust in our education not only because it is well documented but because it protects Jews from discrimination. It is sad that the Christians of the Ottoman Empire have not been included with the WW1 genocides against them in our education system; but at least now you can see what happens when you are not educated about mass genocide. The Armenia Genocide, Assyrian Genocide, Nestorian Genocide, Pontic Genocide and Hellenic Genecide is the reason World War 1 began. The Massacre at Chios which wiped the entire island out was what brought other western nations into WW1 against Germany, Italy and Turkey. The term Balkan that refers to modern day Orthodox Christians and discriminates us as worthless, poor and survivors of Communism and ethnic clashing. The only way to reverse this defamation is to change the name because our education system does not point out the Genocides against the Orthodox Christians. The same thing would occur if our schools did not teach us about the Jewish Holocaust. I would never wish that on the Jews. They have concrete proof and we have concrete proof. The world watched Chios (1893), Pergamon (1910s), Phocaea (1910s), the Smyrna Massacre (1920s), Constantinople (1955) and the invasion of Cyprus (1970s) and still the Orthodox World is told to get over the genocides whilst the entire point of educating the world on the Jewish Holocaust is to make sure we never forget.

The double standard is frustrating, but my message is that this type of crime should never be forgotten, nor falsely denied, nor used as revenge or retribution. But it is truth, and I will continue to speak to the truths of the past and not allow ficticious evaluations have an equal floor to explain away massacres and organized executions as a war tactic. Genocide as a war tactic is inhumane, discusting, and does not deserve equal hear in history, in news, nor in the international public arena. Feel free to say what you want about genocide just as I am free to say that this is my opinion and I wish that it was the common ground to educate people on what the actual meaning is behind learning about the genocides.

The Orthodox Christian genocides will not dishonor Turkey. What do people think of Germany, Britain, America, France, Italy and Japan whom Americans are taught to be guilty of genocide crimes at school? In Arizona I grew up in a Jewish Community that taught tolerance through the education and understanding of the Jewish Holocaust. I found it to be critical to the way I was raised to be growing up. And just as well, the Greek Community in Arizona was also allowed to administer school programs by teaching about primarily Ancient Greece and briefly Modern Greece. I was involved in this program and worked with both Jews and Greeks at public schools teaching historical events.

 

[kronic]

I second what the other Germans said. Nazism got its attention but it didn't dominate the agenda. We started with Mesopotamia in the 5th grade and went through the world history (of course with a focus on Germany) to the German unification until the 10th grade. Then we started again with Athens in the 11th grade. I'd say we didn't spend more than one semester altogether on Nazism and WW2 in the history classes from the 5th to the 12th grade. And that's enough. Germany has a long history with lots of important events. I wouldn't even say that WW2/Nazism is the most important historical event that ever happened to Germany.

 

[Israelite9191]

I don't think that one semester is really enough, but given the context that people live in in Germany I can see it as 'sufficient.' As to what Greek Stud said, I completely agree. The point of teaching abou the Holocaust is so that things like the Hellenic Genocides and discrimination, in particular against Jews but also against other people, does not happen. Greek Stud's view, while only slightly different from mine, is a good summation of much of my point.

 

[RegentMan]

I haven't read through the thread, but I wanted to offer my experience.

We barely get to World War II in my history classes. And when we do, it's simply a "Hitler invaded Poland... France fell... Hitler failed to take Britain... invaded USSR... Pearl Harbor... A-bomb... we win." That, and a huge outlook on the Holocaust. Not wanting to sound horrible, but I've gotten tired of learning about that.

So we learn about Hitler. However, it's the same main points every year that every person with a slight interest in history knows about and everyone else has to re-learn.

 

[Asclepius]

The meaning of my original post was that the Holocaust must be remembered so that similar events would not happen again, in this case mass genocide and preferably all genocide, however I never said that humanity as a whole remembers the Holocaust or has learned its lesson from the Holocaust. That's my whole reason for arguing that more about the Holocuast must be taught, so that people will learn its lesson.

This is exactly why I have a problem with the European and North-American fixation with the Holocaust. If schools concentrate solely upon teaching the Holocaust (and normally only concentrate upon the systematic murder of 5,5 - 6 million Jewish deaths and only a passing mention of the 5 million non-Jews who were also murdered in extermination camps) it becomes a Jewish historical incident.

I believe far more could be gained by teaching how easy it is for a civilized, educated society to lose all of their morals due to Nationalism and religious or ethnic intolerance. I can see no point in schools teaching "never again" when, as we both agree, similar events have occurred since. "Never again" becomes merely "Never again shall Germans murder Jews in Europe in the 1940's". For children to truly understand the horror of what mankind is capable, history taught in school needs to reach out and involve the child at an empathic level. Make them feel that this could have been them. The children need to appreciate that this isn't just a distant, past event to learn about, then compartmentalize it as "something that happened in a foreign country" and move on. I believe everyone should be taught that this could happen in your own country. In your own town. In your own street. Your neighbours, from one day to the next, are capable of becoming monsters who could stop at nothing just because your skin is a different colour or you wear your clothes differently. This is the message that should be being taught.

So in a vain attempt to bring this subject back on topic, I do think way too much Hitler is taught in schools and the Holocaust is another example of this. Concentrate on what humanity is capable of and use examples, but don't fixate as the underlying message gets lost.

If the current methods of educating Europeans on the Holocaust have been successful how did Bosnia happen? Or do you also have a reason for believing yourself and everyone else to be somehow superior to the Yugoslavs? (Or Rwandans, or Sudanese or whoever...) [I'm not trying to be rude here just playing Devils' Advocate.]

 

[Adler17]

Asclepius, on my school so we did learn about the Holocaust, at least partially.

Adler

 

[Israelite9191]

Asclepius, it sounds like we actually agree to an extent. I believe the most important lesson of the Holocaust is the brutality humanity is capable of. I also believe that the Holocaust should be taught in such a way as to make it relevant to people and make people empathetic to those who suffered. The schools I went (all were private including a Jewish, a secular, and a Catholic) to thankfully did just that. The place where we differ is that you seem to believe that learning about the Holocaust is a waste of time since humanity up till now has failed to implement "Never again," I feel that it is crucial so that people in the future will implement "Never again."

 

[Asclepius]

I would have to say that is a pretty good summary. I wouldn't go as far as saying; learning about the Holocaust is a waste of time, but it certainly seems to have been less than 100% effective. Upon that basis, I would prefer a more broad spectrum of events to be taught to make classes more relevant and more wide ranging.

 

[Greek Stud]

sometimes if you make the subject seem so common, the learner becomes immune to the message believing it to be common and does not personalize the plight of those that suffering. I never thought much of the Hellenic Genocide until I interviewed my family members that survived it. It brought genocide to a level of understanding that I would not have cared for had it been about comparing the numbers between different genocides. I always here people complain that it was only 1million Armenians or 6million Jews compared to Russia's 30million or China's however many million. That is not the message. The message is to end the hate, the allure of supremism, and bias against groups of people.