Schools

[kulgan]

Can we get an education system going? Science is great but it doen't really contribute to the over all happiness of the civs. Once a wonder is gained like the great library or the tech of education, could the libraries and universities become more efficient? or perhaps schools become availiable. The overall effect of which in middle size cities would be to increase the quality of life and cultural points.

The good/bad management of the government could be taught in schools and have an effect (which may be evident a few turns later) by the children, now adults, acting on what they have seen in recent history. The effect schools could also be that inventions and science increase also. But then war weariness and sufferange are easier to attain.

 

[Jake5555555]

Schools would be nice. The affect could be an increase in science research, more ressistance to propaganda, and maybe some other affects that could result from a better educated populace.

 

[kulgan]

Like an increase in effectiveness of hospitals, factories, marketplaces & banks and any thing that education will have an effect on. There might even be a decrease in the size of families and a drop in the growth rate of the cities. Perhaps and increase in corruption or a decrease. An increase in possibility of foreign trade and aliances. Perhaps even the possibility of more collabrative trading of techs.

 

[plastiqe]

I agree that there should be more options for city improvements, and schools is a good example. They need to have a game ability that isn't just +50% research though.

 

[kulgan]

I agree.

How about schools have the following effect:

Research +15%
Commerce +15%
Factories +1 Shield
Culture +1 (per city)
Corruption -1%
Pollution -1%
War Weariness +5% (when at war)


So the effect of schools has a broad effect on many stategies

 

[Jon Shafer]

War Weariness +5%?

Depends on what you teach in the schools... ever studied Japan, circa 1920-1945?

 

[rhialto]

It wasn't just Japan then. Even the allied powers taught a pro-military slant at that time. And just thirty years earlier, US schools were saluting their flag in a style reminiscent of n*z* Germany. Yes, I have links to photos as proof too.

 

[Jon Shafer]

Nazi is taboo?

I was using Japan as an example as it was certainly the most extreme case of educational brainwashing.

 

[rhialto]

Its not taboo per se, I'd just rather not have certain political groups find my favourite game whiel searching for their own filth.

ETA: If you want extreme brainwashing, you might want to consider what is going on in North Korea today. Even the south has a little of this kind of thing, as witnessed by the extreme xenophobia/arrogance of that country. Yes, I know about Korean history, but that doesn't excuse the attitudes of most people I met while living there.

 

[kulgan]

I think the policies taught in the schools, will be based on the current government type and the recent history. So if the Nazi (facist) government is chosen then the schools will encourge the kinds of doctrine that that government indoctrinates and thus have various effects on the population.

A thought here on despotism government. If I build a school in despotism, then the children to adults are taught to fear and taught to work hard. The problems caused would increase corruption and even decrease population growth, maybe. There would be little positive except mayby ferocity of the fighters (warrior type units)

 

[menwia]

schools is a good idea.

on the point about war weariness - well agreed, depending on what they teach in school one would have more war weariness or less.

I agree, schools should have a broader effect on society, a good example was the +1 to factories, I think we it should have a broader positive effect on production as a whole - a well educated workforce is a more productive workforce, as well as a more creative, innovative - ect.

Going back to the point of WW and the effects of school.s The way I see it, it goes both ways, when you teach in schools the honest appraoch it will increase WW, when you taach the self interenst approach as most government have done, even the so called free societies - then war weariness would be decreased because you would believe your sidee was dong right.

The whole thing comes down to core values, and cultrual characteristics of a society as a whole to see what they would teach in schools. IN the western schools back in the days, sex education was never taught - now most teachers and peopl think it is their responsiblity to teach the kids about this important aspect of life - in a way to try and avoid teenage pregnacy and others noble efforts - of course there is a section of society which is oppossed to this -there reasons just as noble too.

but you get my point . . .

 

[Teabeard]

Sorry, I think schools are a bad idea. You can already build universities. Schools are something that is at the local level, not at a city or national level. This is Civ, not Sim City. If you like playing at a local level get sim city.

 

[menwia]

fair point, yoy can have one libary or one university for a city, but you'd need quiet a few schools per city. Fair point.

How about a School System Then, or something to represent the school's network in a city - I'm not sure what you'd call it.

How about that teabeard?

 

[Teabeard]

What would be the point of a school system? To increase Literacy rates? To indoctrinate kids with government propaganda? I don't see how adding schools/educations adds much if anything to the game. I don't think schools should improve research, so what would their use be? When has a great civilization discovery ever been discovered at a school? At a university? Yes. At a Library? Maybe. At a Research Lab? Absolutely. Grade school? Absolutely not. I've never heard of any major discovery occuring at a grade school so I don't think they should give any research bonus. All they are good for is improving literacy, but what effect would literacy have in the game? If Literacy doesn't mean anything then there is no point for schools.

 

[menwia]

Schools have a more profuound effect then just leteracy - like I said before. A educated populace is a more productive populace. Therefor, if you were to build a school district/system then your people would work better, produce better, less crime as well, which means less corruption I think in civ terms.

The effects could be varied and not specifically restricted to research.

 

[Jon Shafer]

I agree education is an important factor and ought to be included. Schools are certainly more important to society than Libraries, which are already in Civ.

 

[sir_schwick]

Schools teach the knowledge contained in libraries. Either way though, demographics would have to play a bigger role for schools to matter. So until then, thumbs down.

 

[Yuri2356]

What would be the point of a school system? To increase Literacy rates? To indoctrinate kids with government propaganda? I don't see how adding schools/educations adds much if anything to the game. I don't think schools should improve research, so what would their use be? When has a great civilization discovery ever been discovered at a school? At a university? Yes. At a Library? Maybe. At a Research Lab? Absolutely. Grade school? Absolutely not. I've never heard of any major discovery occuring at a grade school so I don't think they should give any research bonus. All they are good for is improving literacy, but what effect would literacy have in the game? If Literacy doesn't mean anything then there is no point for schools.

How do you think those scientists developed the skills they needed to get into the universities? Educating the people will result in more productive and creative society. The school's effect on research would be indirect, but it would still be there.

I agree that the effects of the schools would vary depending on your government/moral code/religion/whatever else gets incorperated into Civ4.

 

[rhialto]

I think we can agree that a society that has a school system in place is profoundly differently from one that doesn't. Global literacy rates correspond dramatically with effective school system distribution. And we all know what effect literacy had in enabling the industrial revolution.


For those who don't know, it meant workers could be given written instructions. It enabled newspapers as a viable medium. It allowed for timetables to be useful. Take a walk downtown and pretend you can't read. The amount of unavailable information will shock you.

When I moved to Japan, I had immediate personal experience with this.

 

[Teabeard]

I agree education is an important factor and ought to be included. Schools are certainly more important to society than Libraries, which are already in Civ.

But Schools are at the local level, which is beyond the scope of this game. If you want schools play sim city.