SE and CE s what do they represent in real life?

[zenspiderz]

Ok so Civ 4 allows for 2 distinct types of economy; the specialist economy and the cottage economy. Oh I know there are innumerable variants (spy economies, religion economies, hybrid economies etc.) but it alway boils done to one or the other of SE and CE. So what do they represent in real life if anything?

Lets look at the characteristics of each to start with.

SE

High population cities surrounded by extensive farmland

Much of economy comes from specialists resident in city but fed from farms

low in raw commerce, rich in great people points

CE

Low population cities with extensive suburbs.

Bulk of economy comes from commerce from suburban area in form of raw commerce.

Rich in raw commerce, poor in great people


So what might they represent in real life?

Public verses private.

In real life nations may lean more towards public industry or private industry.

A feature of public industry is a high level of government ownership and involvement in the ecomomy this means low or no taxation and high subsidisation. (Soviet Union being an extreme example of public industry.)

A feature of private industry is low level of government involvement and ownership of the economy; government gets its funds through taxation of private industry. (the US on and off to varying degrees would be a private industry.)

In the game I think raw commerce could represent taxed income. This would suggest low raw commerce SE could = public industry (specialists being state employees, officials and so on.) and high raw commerce CE could = taxed private industry.

Another totally different way to look at it would be in terms of landscape.

SE cities are very big (typically) but surrounded by farmland

CE cities are smaller in pop (typically) but surrounded by suburbs.

So perhaps SE represent in real life a stark urban/rural divide intense big cities surrounded by rural idyll and CE represent a more diffuse spread out suburban landscape.

Some clues may also be found in the games civics.. which civics distinctly enhance which economy might suggest what kind of reallife economic paradigm the game designers had in mind for SE and CE.

CE is easiest .. civics that particularly enhance CEs are universal suffrage, free speech and emancipation, definately suggesting private/laissez faire economy.

SE - representation, caste system, mercantalism, and pacifism

caste system pretty much indicates in my mind the indian caste system, the modern english (european) class system and off course modern compulsory mass state schooling. so looking very much like public industry.

The others don't particularly suggest public industry except representation perhaps.

So tthose are my thoughts but what do you think SEs and CEs are supposed to represent if anything in real life?

 

[Slobadog]

I think CE represents a bunch of cottages turning into hamlets then villages then towns. I think SE represents merchants, artists, scientists, spies, engineers and priests, But thats just my take.

 

[djjeffmaddox]

I think CE represents a bunch of cottages turning into hamlets then villages then towns. I think SE represents merchants, artists, scientists, spies, engineers and priests, But thats just my take.

zenspiderz is going to need some icyhot to go along with this sweet burn.

 

[zenspiderz]

zenspiderz is going to need some icyhot to go along with this sweet burn.

what on earth is that supposed to mean?

 

[TeraHammer]

CE is when everyone in the villages around the city is helping with the economy. Averagely. (in real life: democracy)
SE is when the goverment selects only the talents from those towns, and use the rest of the villagers to work in farms to feed those talents. Young talents may mature into great people. (in real life: technocracy)

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

The CE is a capital-intensive economy, the SE a labour-intensive economy.

 

[keshik22]

Trying to explain Civ IV gameplay mechanics in terms of real life is often a pretty futile task. Is there a real-life equivalent of the cities culture flipping to another civ? Don't think so.
If you have to come up with an example, I'd say SE is like the economy in ancient era. You had huge (by those days' standards) megapolises like Rome, Carthage, Athens and the rest was pretty much farmland and villages, a few minor cities also. In those huge cities there was a clear divide between the aristocracy and the rich middle classes like merchants on one hand and the plebs and slaves on the other hand. CE is like the modern urbanised economy.
Slighly offtopic, but why are the SE cities necessarily bigger than CE cities? You have more farms in SE but you also have more specialists who you need to feed and who don't produce any food themselves.

 

[DeadCities]

Western Germany cultureflipped Eastern Germany

 

[Besesser]

Culture flipping is a real thing (in some regards). Quebec's calls for Seperation could be seen as an on going and eventual culture flip. Same goes for the fall and successionist pockets Ottoman and Austrian-Hungarian Empires. I believe you got a fare arguement there but I don't think it was intended by the game makers for it to be that way.

 

[MrFelony]

I think you answered your own question. The specialists kind of represent people themselves. you need a larger population to feed all those people who aren't bringing in food themselve