Seal fur banned in Belgium

[Bozo Erectus]

Limiting peoples freedom to bash this little critters brains in with a club? Stop sharpe, youre breakin' my heart! Gather round me little seals, I'll protect you from these crazy barbarians

 

[Akka]

Don't remember if seals are a species with worrying low number of members. If they are, they full support to the ban.
If not, they it's perhaps excessive.
But well, I'm okay with killing to eat (it's natural). I'm okay with using the skin of these killed animals to make clothes.
But killing ONLY to get the fur... This isn't very justifiable.

 

[amadeus]

Dumb pothead, just because an animal amuses you shouldn't be a justification to ban it's use. You might as well just go with Denis Leary's animal auditions idea.

"What are you?"
"I'm an otter."
"And what do you do?"
"I swim around on my back and do cute little human things with my hands."
"You're free to go."

 

[Evie]

Dumb Pothead, quit invoking the Pikachu factor please. That they're cute is patentedly irrelevant to what we should do - I find wolves very cute personally, but I'm not about to tell farmers to stop killing wolves when the wolves threaten their livestocks!

And regarding the Cod - we're restricting human fishing extensively in Canada already, and yet the population keeps going down, while the seals population is growing, and growing, and growing owing to lack of predators to handle them.

Frankly, there's no justification other than the pikachu factor ("Oh! It's so cute!" in case you missed my explanation of it) to ban seal fur. The pikachu factor is no reason to deprive thousands of human of a large part of their income when no specie is threatened whatsoever by it, which happens to be the case here.

You want a monster? I'll show you monsters - the people who are driving these thousands of men to unemployment because they want to make themselves popular by defending the "poor little seals", animals which nobody would care about if they were not cute-looking, because they are in absolutely no danger of extinction.

But what can I say? Some egoist bastards think it's fine to make themselves popular by using the cute little faces of the seals, and too bad for anyone who lose their job along the way - after all, what's some people over in Canada losing their job when you can be popular, uh?

 

[Zeekater]

About the part of somebody losing his job, the only ones hunting the seals, are the fisherman, who make a few bucks for a few weeks of clubbering.
Nobody has a fulltime job hunting seals, nobody will be hurt by not being able to hunt seals.

 

[Immortal]

When you aren't allowed to fish for cod, you have a bit of difficulty having your main income met zeekmater. As is the case in Northern Quebec, Laborador and Newfoundland.

 

[stormbind]

Seems odd that in Civ3, furs are a luxury that make people happy... but in reality, it just makes us &

Has anyone tried seal meat? Seal pie? Seal burgers? Seal faggots? Seal sausage?

 

[Hundegesicht]

If the seals overpopulation is a threat to the ecological balance there, then by all means kill the furry bastards. Humans are most likely at fault for killing off the natural predators, but trying to stop us from rectifying the problem is just as ignorant and barbaric. Ideally, I'd like to find some way to reintroduce the old predators, but hell, humans are pretty good at killing too - and it's a lot cheaper too!

Killing them and then not using their furs is just plain wasteful, much like the settlers who killed bison by the hundreds and then wasted their furs.

However, I do think that they should be killed in a humane manner, there's no excuse for clubbing them to death.

 

[AceChilla]

Has anyone tried seal meat? Seal pie? Seal burgers? Seal faggots? Seal sausage?

No. But I like to try it, the young seales look especially delicious and juicy.

Why is eating seal wrong and eating cow right. In Korea people eat dogs, is that wrong because you can teach dogs cool tricks and we keep them in our house? Of course not. Same goes for seals.

 

[luiz]

I don't care because I believe anything made of fur is poor taste.

However I don't see the difference, from a moral POV, between using a fur coat or a leather shoe. And nobody in their right mids would advocate banning leather shoes.

 

[notyoueither]

Don't remember if seals are a species with worrying low number of members. If they are, they full support to the ban.
If not, they it's perhaps excessive.
But well, I'm okay with killing to eat (it's natural). I'm okay with using the skin of these killed animals to make clothes.
But killing ONLY to get the fur... This isn't very justifiable.

A lot of emotions in this thread. Here are some facts.

The species of seals that are hunted are growing in numbers. The Department of Fisheries has a long term plan to manage the seal populations that has been arrived at with the input of marine biologists, veterinarians, and industry. If a commercial hunt were not viable, the seals would still be culled. They have to be or they would overwhelm the ecosystem of an immense area.

The seal hunt has recently been more highly regulated, and the hunters have to be licensed. Regulations include prohibiting hunts in certain areas (breeding grounds) methods of killing (the spiked clubs [hakapicks] that are used are very efficient, but most seals are taken by hunting rifles) and they require a reflex test for death that must be performed prior to skinning. Violation of regulations will result in licenses being suspended.

Seal meat and oil are used in addition to the furs. Seal meat is a traditional food in the areas where seals are hunted. Additionally, there are growing markets in the Far East for the meat. The oil is one of the better oils for dietary supplements for humans. A final use for the meat is on fur farms and in feed for other carnivores. The growing markets for the fur are mostly in Eastern Europe and the Far East.

There is no direct evidence that the growing numbers of seals are linked to the declining cod stocks, as there are many other species of fish (such as herring which seals seem very fond of). However, seals will go far and wide looking for food when overpopulated. Norwegians have complained about seals showing up and interfering with coastal fisheries. The topic of declining populations of commercially harvested fish is being given a lot of attention and steps to keep the seals out of certain areas of places like the Grand Banks that are especially good for the breeding of fish are being considered. Incidently, it seems to be more difficult to prevent European fishermen from illegal and reckless overharvesting of species that are in serious trouble (like the cod).

Part of the hunt can never be shut down, even if the Department of Fisheries and the GoC decided it wa desirable. The Innu, and other natives, have been hunting seals for a very long time. Their ability to continue to hunt and fish as they always have is constitutionally guaranteed.

 

[Speedo]

I think it's monstrous to club any animal to dead doesn't matter if he looks cute and fury or not.
-------------------
Limiting peoples freedom to bash this little critters brains in with a club?

How do you think that beef, pork or etc got to your table?

 

[Hundegesicht]

*gasp of surprise* You mean to say you've never heard of the food fairy?

 

[Archer 007]

I never knew seals had fur.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

How do you think that beef, pork or etc got to your table?

When it comes to those animals, Im pure predator. Kill em, skin em, slice em up and I'll eat em. Theyre food. But not fuzzy little babyseals with big sad eyes. I dont need a fur coat so bad that 50 of them have to die horribly. If I was stranded on island with nothing but baby seals, Id die of starvation. I swear to god, I wouldnt be able to kill them and eat them. Like what Sharpe said about Leary and Otters. The otters and baby seals are cute, so they get a pass

 

[CurtSibling]

Good stuff - The seal fur trade is a pointless market.

Synthetic furs can get the same results.

 

[CurtSibling]

If the seals' existance is endangered, I see no problem with it, but if they are an abundant resource, I think this is just limiting people's freedoms more now than ever.

What about my freedom to hunt humans?

Is that allowed?

 

[CurtSibling]

Dumb Pothead, quit invoking the Pikachu factor please. That they're cute is patentedly irrelevant to what we should do - I find wolves very cute personally, but I'm not about to tell farmers to stop killing wolves when the wolves threaten their livestocks!

And regarding the Cod - we're restricting human fishing extensively in Canada already, and yet the population keeps going down, while the seals population is growing, and growing, and growing owing to lack of predators to handle them.

Frankly, there's no justification other than the pikachu factor ("Oh! It's so cute!" in case you missed my explanation of it) to ban seal fur. The pikachu factor is no reason to deprive thousands of human of a large part of their income when no specie is threatened whatsoever by it, which happens to be the case here.

You want a monster? I'll show you monsters - the people who are driving these thousands of men to unemployment because they want to make themselves popular by defending the "poor little seals", animals which nobody would care about if they were not cute-looking, because they are in absolutely no danger of extinction.

But what can I say? Some egoist bastards think it's fine to make themselves popular by using the cute little faces of the seals, and too bad for anyone who lose their job along the way - after all, what's some people over in Canada losing their job when you can be popular, uh?

I don't care about some yokel's supposed 'work' of hunting seals.

They should go and get a real job.

 

[Zeekater]

They can only be hunted for a few weeks anyway, I don't think many fishermen really need the income to survive.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

And regarding the Cod - we're restricting human fishing extensively in Canada already, and yet the population keeps going down, while the seals population is growing, and growing, and growing owing to lack of predators to handle them.

You guys kill 350,000 a year. How can you say they lack predators?

Canadian harp seal hunt: largest ever


Wed 14 April 2004
CANADA/Newfoundland


The Canadian government has approved a massive expansion in the allowable catch for harp seals in Canada to a maximum of 350,000 animals this year. While "whitecoat" harp seals (under 2 weeks old) are still protected as a result of actions by Greenpeace and other organisations in the 70s and 80s, and some of the more extreme animal rights abuses have been outlawed, older seals can still be legally hunted under Canadian law.

This year's quota is the highest for any year since 1967. Canada's cod fishery collapsed in the early 90s, and some in Canada blamed the seals, despite the fact that the greatest culprit was clearly decades of human overfishing. The collapse of fisheries around Newfoundland due to mismanagement are a major driver in the economics of expanding the seal hunt -- and part of an all too predictable cycle of "exploit, deplete, and move on" which have characterised human commercial hunts of wild animals the world over. History has taught us that as soon as a market exists and profits are to be made, the pressure to hunt a species beyond sustainable population levels will inevitably lead to a non-sustainable hunt.

http://www.greenpeace.org/international_en/news/details?item_id=455020