Sengir01 - Spying with a vengeance

[sturick]

Alright, here is how I see it.

There is an SoD that can reach Cuman in two turns.
It is large enough to take it as well.

3 xbows
4 pikes
5 swords
9 catapults
4 phalanx
1 Horse Archer.

Only four of our cities are building military right now anyways so reinforcements would come too late.
Assuming the AI is smart enough he would take Cuman from us.
Retaking it would be problematic since it is on a hill and we only have 3 trebs at the moment.

I think it would be far simpler to buy peace with Alex.

He will take peace for Philo, a much better deal than giving up Cuman.
This will allow us properly defend our Alex bordering cities with walls and castles.

We can then concentrate our military might on the weaker targets like Hammy and Monty.
With all the heathens out there our friendship with Alex will grow and we shouldn't have to worry about any more declarations on his part.
This declaration was only a vassal fluke anyways.

Guilds is coming so I will prep to steal that from Hammy.
On second thought, I should save EPs on him for revolts.
We can steal it from Alex.

I will try and play as soon as I can...just don't know when that is right now.

 

[Whosit]

I don't have any problem buying peace for Philosophy if it means saving a city. We'll just take this as a lesson that we need to keep our defenses at the ready. If you spend your turn fortifying our positions at all, don't forget the south, like Frankfurt or other towns that the Arabs might invade in case we ever go to war with them. I haven't looked at the most recent save, but I think Frankfurt can flip that Arab junk city if it hasn't already. More culture!

 

[Sengir]

Philo for peace is fine with me.

 

[nocho]

I hadn't noticed that stack yet. I think maybe Cuman could hold (it's on a hill as you pointed out and it does have a reasonable number of defenders), but there's really not much point in trying out, so I'm fine with buying peace and getting on with preparation for Hammu. If that stack is coming, taking out Ephesus will be too tall an order anyway.
Silly question, but how do you know he'd take philo for peace, without actually taking it? With "let's bury the hatchet, what's the price for peace?" he told me Cuman, but putting something else on the table I only get "would you accept this deal?" as an option.

Getting walls and castles out is a good idea, if not for defence but for the 25% increase in spy points!

 

[Meiz]

Silly question, but how do you know he'd take philo for peace, without actually taking it? With "let's bury the hatchet, what's the price for peace?" he told me Cuman, but putting something else on the table I only get "would you accept this deal?" as an option.

Personally I just propose a tech and ask if he would accept the deal, and as far as I know there's no other way. Reloading game after the test isn't really a spoiler in any way.

 

[nocho]

Personally I just propose a tech and ask if he would accept the deal, and as far as I know there's no other way. Reloading game after the test isn't really a spoiler in any way.

Ohhhhhhhhhh, reloading, naughty, naughty!

Well ok, that's fine, I just wondered if I wasn't aware of some game mechanic.

 

[sturick]

About halfway done with my set.

Anyone have a problem with a declaration on Hammy?

I was planning on playing until the Great Person arrives from Frankfurt which is in 5 turns.
I could hold off until then too.
Spies are ready to revolt in 2 or 3 turns so we will run a slightly larger risk of discovery by waiting but it would be negligble.

 

[sturick]

I hate Johannes Kepler

Preturn

I am running 3.17 this time so I am good to go!

Lets run through the cities first.

Looks like whether by accident or design Berlin will stagnate perfectly working all tiles and one spy spec.

I think that Munich needs one more cottage to stagnate at 13.

No need for the temple in Cologne right away what with its 36 happy points.
I want a castle here for the spy multiplier.
No hammers in the temple yet to switch now to a 4 turn castle.

Switch forest tile in Essen to a cottage tile for cottage growth.

Dortmund isn't working the silver tile so I swap two hammers for 5 commerce there.

Ligurian is working a forested tundra so I hire a spy instead.

Birka and Uppsala are working on macemen without the aid of a barracks.
I queue up a granary in Birka and just whip the mace out of Uppsala.
We won't be producing military from this city so no need to waste any hammers on a barracks build.

Several cities are close to good whipping points so I will check back to make sure I do so.

Time to buy us some peace...

I think buying peace is the right move...we will make much more headway battling Hammy. We just aren't prepared to take on Alex right now at least...heh heh.

I am sending a spy to Wang to steal Theo.
I just don't think he is going to provide us with many more stealing opportunities so we might take what we can.

(1) 1305 AD

Hamburg treb>treb
Uppsala mace>walls

Alex will sign open borders with us so I do that for the diplo.
I also notice this opportunity.

(2) 1310 AD

Saladin begins teching towards Nationalism.

Berlin hindu mish> longbow
Hamburg treb>treb
Munich spy>castle
Dortmund hindu mish> forge
Stuttgart spy>longbow
Uppsala walls>forge

I send our mishes to Uppsala as it is struggling to build a forge with 4 hammers and Essen (building a market).
I send our spies to our Hammy targets, Borsippa and Sippar(raze).

I whip Nidaros spy build since we get 48 overflow and grow next turn.
Jelling gets the whip too as it is working water tiles and we want those courthouse EPs now!
Haithabu same story second verse...just no water tiles. 52 overflow is nice!

(3) 1315 AD

Ligurian spy>pike
Nidaros spy>forge
Jelling courthouse>granary
Haithabu courthouse>forge
Bjorvin courthouse>walls (will be on the front lines in a war with Hammy)

Uppsala and Essen safely learn the ways of the Hindu people.

(4) 1320 AD

Hamburg treb>treb
Cologne castle>hindu temple
Stuttgart longbow>longbow

We were positive gold when at 50% so I bump it up to 60% for more EPs

Here is my tentative plan for invading Hammurabi.

I will split the two stacks into two groups.
The larger one to take Borsippa and Akkad.
The smaller one will raze Sippar and defend the settler that will plant our Ironworks city.
Our proposed IW site is fogged over right now so I wouldn't be surprised to find another city in the area.

(5) 1325 AD

Berlin longbow>pike
Essen market>walls for a castle

I am noticing that Indias culture is starrting to affect our newly captured Viking cities.
We should build culture here when we can to battle that.

(6) 1330 AD

Hamburg treb>pike
Munich castle>spy
Frankfurt hindu temple>moai statues

I don't know if we ever discussed this but its the only city where Moai makes sense and I don't foresee us building any other National Wonders here. Hope this move is agreeable to the group.

Stuttgart longbow>pike

I whip a pike in Ligurian since we were working a tundra forest.

I trade spare gems to Gandhi for 9 gpt.

(7) 1335 AD

Essen walls>castle
Ligurian pike>spy

Many spies arrive at their locations.
Declaration on Hammy in about three turns.

I notice now that Alex is no longer Hindu...not sure why.

(8) 1340 AD

I realize the foolishness of my recent trade with Gandhi. Oops!
I decline to cancel the deals though.

We get the dustbowl event...I pay it out since we have plenty of money and I don't want it to continue.

Sistine Chapel is built far away...we get 195 gold for the hammers we put into it earlier.

(9) 1345 AD

Berlin pike>walls
Hamburg xbow>lbow
Cologne hindu temple>spy

Great person in 3 turns
40% spy
26% artist
25% prophet
9% scientist...no thank you.

(10) 1350 AD

Berlin walls>castle
Cologne mish>spy
Stuttgart pike>stable
Bjorvin walls>castle

Now would be the time to unleash my attack on Hammurabi.
After some more thought I don't think razing Sippar is necessary.
Sure it overlaps lots of cities but it is riverside and grabs the spices.
Should be enough commerce here to turn a tidy profit.

I will wait however since I am two turns from finishing.
The next player can have some fun.

(11) 1355 AD

Hamburg lbow>lbow
Munich spy>spy
Ligurian spy>jewish mish since we will soon control the jewish holy city!

Hinduism is long overdue in Hamburg. It finally arrives.

Spies are on their way to Akkad to camp for the revolt discount.

Last turn upcoming.

(12) 1360 AD

Hamburg longbow>longbow
Hammy has two hilled cities so these are for garrison.
Cologne spy>spy
Essen castle>jewish mish
Minus two food here so when we steal guilds from Alex in a few we need a grocer.

Alex comes a calling and wants us to cancel deals with Gandhi.
Boy did I foul up with that trade I made.
I cancel things this time to avoid any further wrath.

And in a turn of horrible news...we get a scientist, Johannes Kepler, from Frankfurt.
Thus the title of this set.
Doesn't the RNG know we are playing a spy specialist game???

And because I wanted to actually do something spy related I stole Paper from Wang Kon.

You will notice that there was only a 40% stationary bonus but I felt empty inside without performing any missions. Please have mercy!

He was successful btw...

I left the movement for both of our stacks so that we can declare on Hammy immediately if we want to. My vote is for a declaration.

Convoluted Roster:
Sengir - Probably playing next?
Norvin Green - Autoskip - back after July 11
Whosit - Probably on deck...I think (maybe Norvin will be back in time)
nocho - Chillin'
sturick - Just played (that I know for sure)
Meiz - Probably swapped?

 

[nocho]

Poor Kepler, normally always a welcome guest but this time around of little use. Well, let's keep him hanging around for a while, if we get another GS by accident I guess they can double-bulb something or if we get a GArt they can fire off a GAge.

Can't look at the save now, but if you feel we're ready, indeed let's declare on Hammurabi.

And what's the religious status of Alex now, if he got out of Hinduism? If he's without religion I guess he built the ShPaya and went FR.

 

[Sengir]

Got it for the weekend, though no idea when exactly

 

[Sengir]

Ok, looked at the save. Looks like during the next set there should be possibilities to steal Optics (meh), Theology (meh), Guilds (good) and Nationalism (very good), if the AI cooperates a bit.

Our diplo is pretty abysmal though. Only Sally is pleased with us, the rest, not so much, with no real opportunities for improvement. We should be strong enough to hold them of though and most of them hate someone else more then us (and we won't be needing them for techtrading anyway ).

Anyone got a plan for the upcoming war with Hammi? (besides going in and bash his head until we've got all his cities)

 

[Sengir]

It is not going to work tonight as I got a rather nasty migraine (can't look at the screen for more then a minute at a time). Meiz should be back, so he can pick it up, and I'll play after him.

 

[Meiz]

Ok, I'll take a closer look at the save and play tomorrow. Until then, more comments and suggestions are welcome of course

 

[nocho]

Ok, I'll take a closer look at the save and play tomorrow. Until then, more comments and suggestions are welcome of course

I'll trust on your killer instinct. Besides, Sengir said it eloquently enough: bash Hammu's head until we've got all his cities! And steal nationalism and whatever else looks nice.

 

[Meiz]

Loud and clear!

 

[sturick]

My initial thoughts on taking out Hammy were like this.

Lower our Espionage rate on Hammy as we have plenty of EPs to do whatever we want to him.
The western stack will take Borsippa and Akkad.
The eastern stack will take and keep Sippar. It should also go and see if Hammy has planted a city in the area north of Sippar. We have a settler with that group and he can start our ironworks city.

Once those objectives are done we can see what we have left in the way of an army and what our next move should be.
By then your set should be pretty much over so it will work out nicely.

 

[Sengir]

Also, keep in mind that Alex is in WHEOOHRN again iirc, so keep up our defenses in the west.

 

[Meiz]

Preturn

I'll simply deliver the bad news.

Poor guy looks like he hasn't slept at ease for a while

Turn 1

Two cities fall immediately on next turn, after succesful city revolts.

Turn 3

Gigamesh makes peace with Gandhi. Didn't know they were even warring, but yay for them!

Alex donates guilds.

Turn 4

Moai completed in Frankfurt. I'll hire additional specialists there, so the next GP isn't guaranteed scientist from the great library city.

Turn 5

Now it's really time to pray for that prophet!

And finally we can settle the long waited IW city. I sure hope I picked the right spot...

Just a quick look to Frankfurt before I hit enter and... wait a minute, what's going on here?

Sure enough, Saladin has enough on his hands and no one can be bribed against him. I know Sengir, that you mentioned to keep borders near Alex strong, but I'll think I'll move those troops just a little bit

Turn 9

We become the new owners of Oracle and ToA. Better late than never I guess...

Turn 10

What...? Montezuma made peace with Gandhi on the same turn, but apparently baldy hasn't had enoug. I fail to find any of his forces, but I guess he can play war if he wants to...

Turn 11

Ah no worries, Saladin declares on Gilgamesh and moves his stack away

Turn 12

It's a miracle! (The other option was walls +1 gold)

Also, Montezuma declares war against Gilgamesh.

Meanwhile. my siege against Mari doesn't end as well as I had hoped... . Just one unit short!

Turn 13

Alright, let's try again!

I think I managed to lost at least four city raider macemen when attacking this lousy city, sorry guys . You might be glad to hear that I did burn the worthless crap to ashes.

Well, some good news as well.

Gandhi is such a whimp!

Turn 14

We got a GG on previous turn and now he is mergerd in our HE city.

Turn 15

What better way to end my set than this!

Here's what left of Babylon.

Our troops are healing but we probably need a bit more siege if we wan't to avoid casualties. Our captured cities are lightly defended, but longbows are on the way. We're also out of spies there, but couple of those are on the way.

Everyone's been praying, right?

We have to keep the spy hired so that Frankfurt gets the next GP.

Roster:
Sengir - Up
Norvin Green - On deck
Whosit
nocho
sturick
Meiz - Just played

 

[Whosit]

It looks like you've turned Hammurabi into Hamburger! Oh-hohohoho! *Bad pun laughter*

That little comedy with Gandhi was pretty strange. Maybe someone bribed him to attack us? It'll be interesting to see what happens to Gilgamesh with a two-way war against a couple opponents who aren't total push-overs.

Shame about the losses at Mari, but we can swallow a few losses like that. After we bring some more siege to the front, that should be the end of Babylon. After this war is over, though, I'd feel safer if we build up a good defensive force on all vulnerable fronts. Gandhi's antics aside, we're basically down to aggressive nutcases with a rapidly depleting pool of targets and we can't always assume that they'll fight each other. Anyway, with two successful wars in the bag, seems like it's time to fortify, consolidate, and prosper.

 

[Meiz]

Forgot to mention that I'd still build IW in Berlin, especially after we popped copper there.

And I forgot our Gscientist to sleep in Frankfurt, so wake him up if you figure some use for him