Sengoku-jidai Unit Discussion/Progress Thread

[Gen. Rommel]

I've been working pretty much straight the past couple weeks to get my act together and everything organised for my tech tree. So far, I've been able to, as far as I know, get a list together of all the units that will be featured in my mod/scenario project. For the most part, I've been able to fill most of the slots of the default units as well as the unique units. However, as was presumable, not everything was filled with a unit. In this thread, I'll need two things from the civ community: firtstly, some suggestions for units to fill the UU lines of the civs/clans still missing a unit, and secondly, for people to take up some of the unit requests please.

I'm still only brushing the surface of unit-making and have already forgotten about half of the things I read in utahjazz' tutorial.

As such, anybody taking up a request would have my true and undying appreciation for all of eternity. I won't be able to get the unit lines finished on my own, and plee to the civ community for some help on the matter.

Here's a list of the clans' unique units. Text in green specifies a clan where a unit is already available:

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UPDATE: 10-22-07

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ALL UNIT REQUESTS HAVE BEEN MOVED HERE!!!!

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***Unique Units***


Clans that have had their UU line filled with a unit from the forum database (these are done):

Mori Clan – Kyudoka: Elite Archer (Otomo no Makuta from PTW)
Otomo Clan – Otomo Sekibune (pdescobar's Junk)
Oda Clan - Teppo-bushi (Oda Arquebusier from PTW Expansion)
Hongwanji Clan – Yamabushi (Warrior Monk from PTW Expansion)
Hosokawa Clan - O-Kobaya (aaglo’s Cargo Junk)
Satake Clan – Hanabishi (utahjazz7’s Rocket Team)
Matsuura Clan – Friar of the Franciscan Order (Plotinus’ Franciscan Friar)
Shimazu Clan - Saiga-shu: Arquebus mercenaries from Kyushu (Dom Pedro II’s Choson Soldier)
Ryuzoji Clan - Ikusabune (aaglo’s War Tiger)
Chosokabe Clan – Yatoihei (Sword_Of_Geddon’s Samurai Flintlock Musketman)


This is an idea I had for UU which might be too unrealistic to put in the mod (suggestions for an alternative are greatly appreciated here as well):

Mogami Clan – Teppo-kiheitai (Dom Pedro II’s Samurai Cavalry) [Not sure about leaving this one as is]


So if there's anything you can help with, be it unit-creation or unit ideas, your comments are more than welcome. If you feel that some units should be revised to better fit the clan, I'm all ears for your suggestions.

Thank you to anyone taking the time to read this post!

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

aaglo made a Japanese atakabune-class warship sometime ago. You could use that to represent the sekibune although sekibune and atakabune are different classes of warships (sekibune being medium boats that didn't carry cannon). The Baode Luan is waaay too big to represent a Japanese ship; the Japanese in the feudal era never built ships that big.

 

[Gen. Rommel]

I've already used aaglo's Atakebune unit for the default ship that will be available to all clans as a standard ship.

I'll take the Baoude out and replace it with an alternative unit graphic (one of the junks posted on the forums should do nicely). Thanks for the tip!

Here's the line-up of naval units I'll have in the scenario. Note that the numbers in the front represent the unit class and its upgrade line, i.e. 1 designates the transport ships and 1.2 designates the second trier of that unit line (does that make sense?). The first name shows which unit from the forum database is being used and the name in the parantheses, what that unit's name will be in the scenario. The numbers behind each unit name are the attack, bombard attack, defense, and movement values. The parantheses behind the values are the special abilities of the units. And finally, the ">" specifies which unit the unit is upgraded to.

Naval Units:

1.1. Sampan (Kobune -Boat) 1.1.2 [No Transport; unsafe in sea and ocean tiles] > Kobaya

1.2.1. Cargo Junk (Kobaya – Small Warship) 1.2.2 [Can Transport 4]

1.2.2. Aaglo's Junk (O-Kobaya – Hosokawa UU) – 1.3.3. [Can Transport 4]

2.1.1. WarJunk (Sekibune – Mid-Cannon Warship) 2[2].2.2 [B.Range 1; Can Transport 1] > Atakabune

2.1.2. pdescobar's Junk (Otomo Sekibune – Otomo UU) 2[4].2.2 [B.Range 1; Can Transport 2] > Atakabune

2.2.1. Atakebune (Atakabune – Big Warship) 2[2].3.3 [B.Range 1; Can Transport 2] > O-Atakabune

2.2.2. WarTiger (Ikusabune – Chosokabe UU) 3[2].3.3. [B.Range 1; Can Transport 3] > O-Atakabune

2.3. Tekkousen (O-Atakabune – Heavy Warship) 4[3].4.3. [B.Range 1; Can Transport 2] > Seirobune

3. Castleship (Seirobune – Super Heavy Warship) 5[4].6.2. [B.Range 1; Can Transport 4]

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Oh yeah, I forgot to note in the first post...if anybody finds bad translations on my behalf, please inform me of any corrections that should be made. I can't speak Japanese (yet) for the life of me.

I was already beginning to think no one would ever post. Luckily Ogedei did!

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Shouldn't "Adakebune" be "Atakabune"? "Tessen" [tetsu=iron / sen=boat] is the same as a Tekkousen, which is an ironside variant of the O-Atakabune. The Japanese equivalents to Chinese "castle ships" are the seirobune (basically a floating seige tower) and the Nihonmaru (there was only one Nihonmaru and it was built during Toyotomi Hideyoshi's reign as regent).

 

[Quinzy]

Dom Pedro II made the units you attributed to Bluemofia, and BeBro made the Chinese Tiger Warrior, not aaglo.

And here's for some options from someone very ignorant on that period:

Amako- Some sort of peasantry warrior representing the fight against the Mori?

Miyoshi- Another form of defensive bushi, representing their ability to control several states?

 

[Gen. Rommel]

Shouldn't "Adakebune" be "Atakabune"?

Yeah, this is actually not my fault though. I've seen romanization of the Japanese word for the Sengoku war class ship to be Adakebune, as well as Atakabune. I thought it was merely a matter of choosing one of them. But since you're the expert on East Asian naval warfare, I'll obviously opt for the one you find more fitting.

"Tessen" [tetsu=iron / sen=boat] is the same as a Tekkousen, which is an ironside variant of the O-Atakabune. The Japanese equivalents to Chinese "castle ships" are the seirobune (basically a floating seige tower) and the Nihonmaru (there was only one Nihonmaru and it was built during Toyotomi Hideyoshi's reign as regent).

Yes, the castle ships do indeed refer to the Nihonmaru ship. And I fully realise that only one existed, however, in a theoretical environment, the production of more such flagships is fully feasible. I wanted to have a sort of "battleship" open to research at the relative end of the scenario for people who like to build up their navies. Since I lacked an actual name for that class, thus far only finding the name Nihonmaru (which is not a class name but rather that specific ship's name), I took up the name Tekkousen since they were also a form of "elite" warship during the Sengoku. But I will gladly adopt the seirobune name; it fits better with the other names anyways.

Dom Pedro II made the units you attributed to Bluemofia, and BeBro made the Chinese Tiger Warrior, not aaglo.

Doh! You're right, I did mess up on the Choson Soldier, which is indeed Dom Pedro's work. I misread it in the forum database, accidentally taking the name of the person that uploaded it there rather than the creator. Thank you for correcting that and I'll make sure to fix that anywhere that it was also the case. I meant no ill-will towards Dom Pedro and wish to thank you for making these great units for the civ community.

However, while the Tiger Warrior Swordsman was made by BeBro, the War Tiger Paddleship was indeed made by aaglo.

And here's for some options from someone very ignorant on that period:

Amako- Some sort of peasantry warrior representing the fight against the Mori?

Miyoshi- Another form of defensive bushi, representing their ability to control several states?

For someone who's supposedly ignorant on the subject, those are some extremely excellent suggestions. In fact, I'll be adding them right away since they seem very logical. Thanks for the ideas Quinzy, they fit perfectly!

Time to update the first post!

I figure I'm not going to be getting any responses from unit-makers anytime soon, huh?

EDIT: By the way, is "Ataka"bune nihonification of the english word attack, Ogedei? As in, bune means ship and it represents an "attack ship".

 

[Quinzy]

Ah, so you want more ignorant ideas?

Okay!

Nanbu- Assault/offencive unit (cavalry?) To represent driving the Akita out of Mutsu?

Ashina- Blitz unit with lowered defence, to represent the Battle of Suriagehara (Blitz to represent the attack on Date Masamune after the The Siege of Kurokawa and the lowered defence to represent the defeat at such Battle)?

Asakura- Strong defensive unit to represent their well-founded notion of Japanese unification and their castles (notably the battle of Anegawa, where they may have lost but held out for a while against Oda's musketeers)

 

[Stormrage]

I need any kind of Peasentry Warrior for Japan, so anyone thinking about it can consider Stormy strongly seconding it.

I second others too, but in a normal way

 

[Gen. Rommel]

Nanbu- Assault/offencive unit (cavalry?) To represent driving the Akita out of Mutsu?

Ashina- Blitz unit with lowered defence, to represent the Battle of Suriagehara (Blitz to represent the attack on Date Masamune after the The Siege of Kurokawa and the lowered defence to represent the defeat at such Battle)?

Asakura- Strong defensive unit to represent their well-founded notion of Japanese unification and their castles (notably the battle of Anegawa, where they may have lost but held out for a while against Oda's musketeers)

Again, those ideas sound really good! You know what that means? We won't be needing anymore UU ideas thanks to you Quinzy...all we need now is someone to make them hehe.

I need any kind of Peasentry Warrior for Japan, so anyone thinking about it can consider Stormy strongly seconding it.

Excellent! With our powers combined...nevermind. At least I have your support though.

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

It seems "ataka" and "atake" are used interchangably. Since the character pairs 安宅 can be read as "ataka," "atake," or "adaka." It's another one of those Japanese Kanji compounds that don't exactly correlate to the original sound.

I'm not exactly sure what "安宅船" (atakabune / atakebune) means, but here's a breakdown of each Kanji:
安=yasu/an-> peace
宅=taku -> residence
船=fune/sen -> boat or ship

安宅 (ataka/atake/adaka) could refer to a place name, but again, I'm not really sure.

 

[Gen. Rommel]

Nanbu- Assault/offencive unit (cavalry?) To represent driving the Akita out of Mutsu?

Ashina- Blitz unit with lowered defence, to represent the Battle of Suriagehara (Blitz to represent the attack on Date Masamune after the The Siege of Kurokawa and the lowered defence to represent the defeat at such Battle)?

Asakura- Strong defensive unit to represent their well-founded notion of Japanese unification and their castles (notably the battle of Anegawa, where they may have lost but held out for a while against Oda's musketeers)

Do you think any of those could have their slot filled with a siege unit? Something like the H'waracha that deals lethal bombardment?

It seems "ataka" and "atake" are used interchangably. Since the character pairs 安宅 can be read as "ataka," "atake," or "adaka." It's another one of those Japanese Kanji compounds that don't exactly correlate to the original sound.

I'm not exactly sure what "安宅船" (atakabune / atakebune) means, but here's a breakdown of each Kanji:
安=yasu/an-> peace
宅=taku -> residence
船=fune/sen -> boat or ship

安宅 (ataka/atake/adaka) could refer to a place name, but again, I'm not really sure.

That's basically what I figured was the case. And thanks for breaking the name down for me. With those kanji, it seems the name is something in the effect of "boat that brings peace", but in a sattirical sense. Kind of how people call guns "peacemakers". At least that's the definition I'm going to stick with for now.

 

[Quinzy]

Well, maybe the Nanbu can get the Nakamaro Horseman from the PTW expansion, or is that taken?

And the Akita Clan's Keikihei could get the PTW Shoni no Kagesuke?

As for a gunpowder/siege unit? Hmm, I'm afraid I do not know. Did any of said Clans have trade links with the Tanegashima?

 

[Gen. Rommel]

Well, maybe the Nanbu can get the Nakamaro Horseman from the PTW expansion, or is that taken?

And the Akita Clan's Keikihei could get the PTW Shoni no Kagesuke?

Unfortunately, I am using all of the units available in the PTW Sengoku mod as well as all the Japanese and East Asian ones available on the forum database. My unit requests are basically a last resort after having run out of useable units. Luckily, the default units that all clans will have access to are already allocated, so I won't be needing any additions there (at least, for the time being). If anyone can help with the above unit requests, you would be honored as a god for your services! No, seriously!

As for a gunpowder/siege unit? Hmm, I'm afraid I do not know. Did any of said Clans have trade links with the Tanegashima?

Well, the area of Tanegashima was part of the Shimazu clan's holdings, meaning trade was surely prevalent between them. However, whether these trade agreements also spanned other clans, I'm not sure. I wouldn't be surprised if they did though. It's definitely feasible.

 

[Quinzy]

Well, whoever could have had trade (ie, clans in the south) might have some sort of Cannon-y thing

 

[Gen. Rommel]

*ahem* BUMP!!! *cough*

 

[Stormrage]

Amago Clan - Hyakusho Musurao (First professional peasant warrior available)

Right, so, any pictures of this?

 

[Cloner4000]

Hi, anyway I've look thourgh the post and I have one question..is this for PTW? or Conquest? because Conquest has quite a few pre-made Samurai units already and getting all your request made seems like pretty hard goal to reach anytime soon. I suggest you take a route like EZI2, where they release a beta version first and have generic unit and as it gets more popular, unit makers will be more likely to comply with your request. The first thing is to get people to play this.

Anyway, I notice a lot of UU for each Civ, did you already have a general tech tree set up? with each side having one or two UU. or having different branch of tech tree where some clan have more emphasis on particular category?

I am still reading through all the post, but I'll definately have my friend check it out before monday.

 

[Cloner4000]

Korean Knight (Not Japanese, but look similar enoguh)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=163132
Kunichi (I figure this should be the actual invisable unit, while Ninja should be neutral and buff up a bit)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=143340
Chinese Spearman(I think this should be one of the peasant units, looks a lot more realistic than the original ashigaru)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=42446
Female Samurai
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=161135
Noble Archer(Looks like one of those noble court archers)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=150046
Rocket Team(More bombarding unit)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=175214
Samurai Flintlock(Its a bit more advance form of flintlock...might be a bit out of time period though)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=174626
The meat of the unit Samurai pack 5 of them too
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=63269
A bit more Samurai Unit
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=71835
Female Ninja
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=230504

As for Ninja I have a thought...I think there should be two type of Ninja, one is the generic mercenary Ninja that can be hired easily, another should be Clan-based Ninja of sort that require very specific resource to build and only availble to a few Clans

I have an interest concept for Ninja, there is a Spunky Kid Unit in EZI2 that have 3 attack value and 0 defense, with invisablility tagged.. What it means is that it is while it have the ability to attack, the 0 defense prevents it from entering any combats so that no one can kill is directly by engaging combat.

Anyway..this is some of the unit I've browse that look to fit in the Samurai mode. I'll do some more search later and see if I can find anymore. I believe some of them you already added though.

 

[Gen. Rommel]

I appreciate your suggestions Cloner4000. But as it stands currently, I am not only already using all the Conquests introduced units, but also all the Japanese units (fitting this era) posted on this forum. I thank you for taking the time to find them nonetheless. As for the units above, I don't think they are an overwhelming number of units. I shall rely on the popularity of the scenario to get people's support for helping me make units. Also, since the creation of this thread, I have gotten into unit creation as well, meaning I can hopefully make units in the future for this scenario as well. We'll see...

 

[Cloner4000]

Okay, anyway...my friend look over the unit's name and he say that all make sense works well.. I think it'll work better if you are stuck on any units that you don't know the Japanese name for it, he might be able to go up with something.