Sesn02 - The Bare Necessities, NOT
- Thread starter SesnOfWthr
- Start date
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
...we could get some mounted units from SoZ....
SesnOfWthr
True Believer
Ahhh. OK, Gozpel, I was reading it wrong. I got confused because we named the explorer Spawn.
Yeah, I was looking at that ivory sitting there too, Scout....
Yeah, I was looking at that ivory sitting there too, Scout....
SJ Frank
Spamalot Co-court
I've got it.
What should our city spacing be? I'm assuming normal for the first ring (12-15 tiles per city), then sqeeze it tight when getting into the 2nd ring and beyond?
What should our city spacing be? I'm assuming normal for the first ring (12-15 tiles per city), then sqeeze it tight when getting into the 2nd ring and beyond?
SesnOfWthr
True Believer
I want to avoid a real ICS type spacing. Basically two tiles between, with some closer should be fine.
EX: city - tile - tile - city
EX: city - tile - tile - city
SJ Frank
Spamalot Co-court
Behold, it is the year 2550 BC, results from a secret research project of the astrologers hut has leaked out, predicting that the great and mysterious "Game Turns" will be shortened from 50 to 40 year. Unsure what this means, the Aztec people never the less blames it on their leader. The poor man is sacrificed at the altar in the name of the almighty Pink Elephant. A new leader by the name of SJ Frank is soon found. He is literally "picked" from the streets, and "thrusted" onto the throne, where he is "bound" to perform his duties as leader to the great Aztec nation. 
Turn 0 2550 BC The previous leader left everything in perfect order, I have nothing to do except fidgeting at my royal "cuffs".
Turn 1 2510 BC Workers finish clearing forrest near Cotuit. A road is started to connect the city to the capital. I determine that Hyannis already has invest enough shields in the settler party. The citizens are ordered to gather more gold.
Turn 2 2470 BC Hyannis grows to size 5, and auto-picks a BG tile? The royal governer is sacrificed at the altar. His successor is told to emphasize production. The same decree is circulated through out the empire, along with the governer's head.
The first company of our glorious Jaguar Warriors is formed in Cotuit, they are sent to scout the fog north of Hyannis. A group of youth are being trained in the city as MP warrior, their great-great-great-great grand sons will finish the training in 160 years.
Turn 3 2430 BC Hyannis sends out a settler party, and starts training it's own band of MP warriors. The city is MM'ed to 4 spt, max gold, and growth in 2. Scientists are hired in Cotuit so that lux and be lowered to 10%. Wheel due in 1. The settler party heads towards the location that can product 5 extra bushels of wheat per turn.
Turn 4 2390 BC The Aztec people finally learns what those round stone thingies are for. However, we are more interested in finding those mystical beasts known as "horses"... Our hunter parties look far and wide, but none are found.
Mean while, the brave explore Spawn pops a hut, lives up to his name and spawns barbs.
I also visit Theodora. Why, the beautiful Theodora still hasn't picked up any new techs yet, she must be alone in this cold, hard world. I warm her heart by teaching her how to use Wheel to make beatiful Potteries. In return, Theo teaches me how to spell her Alphabets, and gives me all of her 10 gold. Is that a smile breaking out on her lovely face. She used to be so annoyed at us. I told our scients to start researching writing at maximum pace (90%).
Turn 5 2350 BC Oops, Cotuit riots. No, I wasn't distracted. And no, Theodora had nothing to do with it... Errr, okay, to the sacrifice chamber you go!
Mean while, Jag finds horse to the North
. Hyannis starts gathering a new settler party after the warriors are trained.
Turn 6 2310 BC Spawn survives a barb ambush, but he is badly hurt. I had to raise the lux tax to 20% in order to convince the Hyannis citizen to work the BG instead of the lake.
Turn 7 2270 BC Playing with the lux, for some reason, with lux staying at 10%, setting science at 90% or 80% makes a difference in the cities happiness. Must be something with rounding. The village of Oasis Creek is found, it starts training a pack of warriors to keep the citizens in line, to be followed by more workers. Cotuit finally has its own police force. The people are "encouraged" back to work, and a second company of Jaguar warriors are ordered up.
Turn 8 2230 BC is the year of the Pink Elephant. Our worker finially finishes the road to the holy site. The event coincides with Hyannis' growth to size 5. The city is MM'ed to +9spt and will have the settler party ready in 1 turn.
Turn 9 2190 BC Hyannis sends away her third settler party. A band of warrior went along this time, so a new company is trained to take their place.
Turn 10 2150 BC Amid the celebration of the Pink Elephant, and the turmoil of the settler party leaving, SJ Frank finally found a way to slip away from his guards. He was last seen rowing away in a fishing boat on the lake NW-NW of Oasis Creek. On his desk was left a note and a map, saying that he was sorry for leaving Spawn in such a precarious position, because he didn't want to fortify units in the jungle, and this
Tentative dot map
Turn 0 2550 BC The previous leader left everything in perfect order, I have nothing to do except fidgeting at my royal "cuffs".
Turn 1 2510 BC Workers finish clearing forrest near Cotuit. A road is started to connect the city to the capital. I determine that Hyannis already has invest enough shields in the settler party. The citizens are ordered to gather more gold.
Turn 2 2470 BC Hyannis grows to size 5, and auto-picks a BG tile? The royal governer is sacrificed at the altar. His successor is told to emphasize production. The same decree is circulated through out the empire, along with the governer's head.
The first company of our glorious Jaguar Warriors is formed in Cotuit, they are sent to scout the fog north of Hyannis. A group of youth are being trained in the city as MP warrior, their great-great-great-great grand sons will finish the training in 160 years.
Turn 3 2430 BC Hyannis sends out a settler party, and starts training it's own band of MP warriors. The city is MM'ed to 4 spt, max gold, and growth in 2. Scientists are hired in Cotuit so that lux and be lowered to 10%. Wheel due in 1. The settler party heads towards the location that can product 5 extra bushels of wheat per turn.
Turn 4 2390 BC The Aztec people finally learns what those round stone thingies are for. However, we are more interested in finding those mystical beasts known as "horses"... Our hunter parties look far and wide, but none are found.
Mean while, the brave explore Spawn pops a hut, lives up to his name and spawns barbs.
I also visit Theodora. Why, the beautiful Theodora still hasn't picked up any new techs yet, she must be alone in this cold, hard world. I warm her heart by teaching her how to use Wheel to make beatiful Potteries. In return, Theo teaches me how to spell her Alphabets, and gives me all of her 10 gold. Is that a smile breaking out on her lovely face. She used to be so annoyed at us. I told our scients to start researching writing at maximum pace (90%).
Turn 5 2350 BC Oops, Cotuit riots. No, I wasn't distracted. And no, Theodora had nothing to do with it... Errr, okay, to the sacrifice chamber you go!
Mean while, Jag finds horse to the North
. Hyannis starts gathering a new settler party after the warriors are trained.Turn 6 2310 BC Spawn survives a barb ambush, but he is badly hurt. I had to raise the lux tax to 20% in order to convince the Hyannis citizen to work the BG instead of the lake.
Turn 7 2270 BC Playing with the lux, for some reason, with lux staying at 10%, setting science at 90% or 80% makes a difference in the cities happiness. Must be something with rounding. The village of Oasis Creek is found, it starts training a pack of warriors to keep the citizens in line, to be followed by more workers. Cotuit finally has its own police force. The people are "encouraged" back to work, and a second company of Jaguar warriors are ordered up.
Turn 8 2230 BC is the year of the Pink Elephant. Our worker finially finishes the road to the holy site. The event coincides with Hyannis' growth to size 5. The city is MM'ed to +9spt and will have the settler party ready in 1 turn.
Turn 9 2190 BC Hyannis sends away her third settler party. A band of warrior went along this time, so a new company is trained to take their place.
Turn 10 2150 BC Amid the celebration of the Pink Elephant, and the turmoil of the settler party leaving, SJ Frank finally found a way to slip away from his guards. He was last seen rowing away in a fishing boat on the lake NW-NW of Oasis Creek. On his desk was left a note and a map, saying that he was sorry for leaving Spawn in such a precarious position, because he didn't want to fortify units in the jungle, and this
Tentative dot map
SesnOfWthr
True Believer
I see it. Probably won't play before tomorrow.
BTW - I can't see the dotmap
EDIT: now I can
BTW - I can't see the dotmap
EDIT: now I can
SJ Frank
Spamalot Co-court
My dot map is a bit more spaced than Sesn liked -- I played my turns before seeing his comments. I think we can squeeze one more city in each direction. Come to think of it, for management purposes, founding on fresh water wasn't such a good idea 
.
Some questions that I want to ask are:
Is it worth it to grow the capital and first ring cities to size 12?
Are we going to get enough small cities to support our army that losing the support from a few cities won't matter?
Are we going to have enough happiness to grow cities to size 12.
Do we want to grow some cities to size 12 to nab some wonders?
Does the MoM make sense for such a city here?
It is worth noting that with a marketplace and bank, a size 12 city is a net gain over a size 6.
.Some questions that I want to ask are:
Is it worth it to grow the capital and first ring cities to size 12?
Are we going to get enough small cities to support our army that losing the support from a few cities won't matter?
Are we going to have enough happiness to grow cities to size 12.
Do we want to grow some cities to size 12 to nab some wonders?
Does the MoM make sense for such a city here?
It is worth noting that with a marketplace and bank, a size 12 city is a net gain over a size 6.
SesnOfWthr
True Believer
My answers:
Not initially
Yes, in time
I plan to....
Don't usually build wonders...
It would if we wanted to go that way
Not initially
Yes, in time
I plan to....
Don't usually build wonders...
It would if we wanted to go that way
Grumpy, punch drunk monk's comments in red
SJ Frank said:Come to think of it, for management purposes, founding on fresh water wasn't such a good idea
Got to disagree here. Freshwater and rivers=more gold. Fresh water also means cheap growth to 12, for reasons discussed below.
Is it worth it to grow the capital and first ring cities to size 12?
We will not have libraries or universities so the best way to get research done will be cash and scientists. With cities (size 12) you can gain both gpt from citizens in the fields along the rivers and fishing the lakes and can use scientists for a research boost without hurting shield production.
Are we going to get enough small cities to support our army that losing the support from a few cities won't matter?
The unit support for towns in Feudalism is so high that you will never exceed it so long as you keep putting down towns at CxxC. You can't build military fast enough to keep up as you are settling and conquering.
Are we going to have enough happiness to grow cities to size 12.
With enough money and luxuries you can do anything. Specialists are also an easy way to control contentment.
Do we want to grow some cities to size 12 to nab some wonders?
Easier and cheaper to take 'em. Besides if we don't control the world by the time the really useful wonders come along it will be too late.
SesnOfWthr
True Believer
IHT Everything looks good. Hyannis is making 4 spt, has 6s left on warrior. Why do I think the stupid governor is going to put the new citizen on a BG rather than a forest?
We also need more workers, Ill try to peel a couple off.
2110 bc (1) Hyannis warrior -> worker. Well, wonders never cease!
2070 bc (2) Cotuit jag -> worker. OC warrior -> rax.
2030 bc (3) Hyannis worker -> settler. Plainville founded.
IT Spawn wins vs barb and promotes.
1990 bc (4) -
IT Spawn wins and promotes again.
1950 bc (5) Cotuit worker -> jag. Fortify jag to let barb attack, rather than attack on forest.
IT jag wins on defense.
1910 bc (6) Theo got Masonry. Byz try to steal Spawns barb camp, but he wont hear of it. Camp dispersed.
IT Byz settle to our SW. Because of the placement, Im inclined to think there may be iron there. We get a palace expansion.
1870 bc (7) -
1830 bc (8) Hyannis settler -> rax. Jag deisperses a chinook camp.
1790 bc (9) -
1750 bc (10) Cotuit jag -> jag. Our first coastal town, Plymouth, is founded. Spawn discovers he is on a peninsula, not a choke.
Recap: We still need more workers, though I did get a couple. I would really like to get BW before we trade away writing, so we can use writing for IW. I might suggest making a gpt deal with Theo when writing comes in by shutting off science for the haggling. Its not like were gonna honor it anyhow, right?
We seem to be isolated on an island, so we really need to get some curraghs out there.
>>>SAVE<<<
Here is my basic dotmap, for now:
EDIT: Obviously, the city of Nicaea doesn't fit in with the plan...
We also need more workers, Ill try to peel a couple off.
2110 bc (1) Hyannis warrior -> worker. Well, wonders never cease!
2070 bc (2) Cotuit jag -> worker. OC warrior -> rax.
2030 bc (3) Hyannis worker -> settler. Plainville founded.
IT Spawn wins vs barb and promotes.
1990 bc (4) -
IT Spawn wins and promotes again.
1950 bc (5) Cotuit worker -> jag. Fortify jag to let barb attack, rather than attack on forest.
IT jag wins on defense.
1910 bc (6) Theo got Masonry. Byz try to steal Spawns barb camp, but he wont hear of it. Camp dispersed.
IT Byz settle to our SW. Because of the placement, Im inclined to think there may be iron there. We get a palace expansion.
1870 bc (7) -
1830 bc (8) Hyannis settler -> rax. Jag deisperses a chinook camp.
1790 bc (9) -
1750 bc (10) Cotuit jag -> jag. Our first coastal town, Plymouth, is founded. Spawn discovers he is on a peninsula, not a choke.
Recap: We still need more workers, though I did get a couple. I would really like to get BW before we trade away writing, so we can use writing for IW. I might suggest making a gpt deal with Theo when writing comes in by shutting off science for the haggling. Its not like were gonna honor it anyhow, right?
We seem to be isolated on an island, so we really need to get some curraghs out there. >>>SAVE<<<
Here is my basic dotmap, for now:
EDIT: Obviously, the city of Nicaea doesn't fit in with the plan...
SesnOfWthr
True Believer
Sorry, Scout, i tried to slot you down in the roster, so you had time for your slugfests.
Scout - UP
Matt - On Deck
Scout - UP
Matt - On Deck
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
@Sesn: got my slugfesting done, thanks for the slack. I see some things in your dotmap that I like. I won't play this tonight, so there's time for discussion if anybody wants to throw some thoughts out...
SJ Frank
Spamalot Co-court
Thanks for the answers to my questions. Sounds like we want to them wonders. 
What about SoZ? About time for a pre-build?
So, we're alone (ahem, with Theodora ). Looking at all of those empty jungle space to the north, I don't think we'll have trouble supporting our armies...
One last thing, OC is capable of worker/2-turns with a granary, IMHO, that's the most efficient use of the city. With all the empty space around, Theo should be in expansion mode for a while yet, making conquest somewhat easier. Perhaps we could spare OC from military duties?
them wonders. What about SoZ? About time for a pre-build?So, we're alone (ahem, with Theodora
). Looking at all of those empty jungle space to the north, I don't think we'll have trouble supporting our armies...One last thing, OC is capable of worker/2-turns with a granary, IMHO, that's the most efficient use of the city. With all the empty space around, Theo should be in expansion mode for a while yet, making conquest somewhat easier. Perhaps we could spare OC from military duties?
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
I played in another game this morning and muffed the turn count... so I think I'm going to take a break from civ for today, and play this tomorrow so I can play a more focused game. Any objection?
SesnOfWthr
True Believer
Nope, focused is good, especially early in the game.
Just so you know I'm with you, I like the dotmap. I was going to make one myself, but my ideas are almost the same.
We are looking quite good, I would say.
What about a quick archer rush on Byz's capitol? Is that too silly?
We are looking quite good, I would say.
What about a quick archer rush on Byz's capitol? Is that too silly?
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
If Theodora is plowing a bunch of shields into a wonder it might not be a bad idea at all...gozpel said:
SesnOfWthr
True Believer
I like the archer rush idea. The timing should work out well between us getting the archers built, and her finishing her wonder.
We can't take our eyes off expanding too much, lest someone else come along and encroach on our lands.
I think there is land just to the east of our island, so it would be a short hop with anyone who has galleys.
We can't take our eyes off expanding too much, lest someone else come along and encroach on our lands.
I think there is land just to the east of our island, so it would be a short hop with anyone who has galleys.
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
Pre-flight: Hmm... we need some settlers soon...
Science to 40% gets writing next turn...
IBT - Writing comes in, start Philosophy.
Turn 1 (1725) trespassing in Byzantine lands shows Constantinople at size 1. Lux to 20%, Science to 80%. Philosophy in 12, -1gpt.
IBT- Hyannis Rax>Settler Oasis Creek Rax>Worker
Turn 2 (1700) scouting Jag warrior finds a Babylonian Spear fortified on a land bridge. Hammurabi is up BW, Masonry, CB, down Writing.
IBT - Plainville Warrior>Worker
Turn 3 (1675) Not much.
IBT Cotuit Jag Warrior>Settler
Byzantines building Colossus.
Turn 4 (1650) not much...
IBT -
Turn 5 (1625) not much
IBT - Hyannis Settler>Archer
Babylonians building Oracle.
Turn 6 (1600) Babs have a fresh research queue... wait one turn to trade writing. Move settler out.
IBT - Oasis Creek Worker>Archer
Turn 7 (1575) Trade Babylon Writing for Ceremonial Burial+Horseback Riding+14g.
Trade HBR+Writing+40g to Theodora for BW+Masonry. Move some stuff around.
IBT - Theodora demands 22g. Since we're still in 'expansion mode', she gets it...and a mental note. Plymouth Curraugh>Barracks
Turn 8 (1550) Byzantines and Babylonians both have IW. Move some stuff around.
IBT - Hyannis Archer>Archer
Cotuit Settler>Palace (Statue of Zeus pre-build)
Turn 9 (1525) Something I can't type comes up in the city queue, so the town I found gets called RushPoint. Starts a spear. Sail our Curraugh northward.
IBT -
Turn 10 (1500) move another settler pair out. New town in 2 turns.
We have 35gpt, Philosophy in 3, -2gpt (will change when settler pops) I suggest Map Making or CoL as Free Tech if we get Philo, trade for IW and Myst, then a hard burn to Mathematics. SoZ pre-build is in the queue at Cotuit if we want it. RushPoint claims a couple of BGs that could be used for the purpose. 2 workers mining BG at Plymouth could be pushed south to improve terrain for SoZ and connect RushPoint.
Science to 40% gets writing next turn...
IBT - Writing comes in, start Philosophy.
Turn 1 (1725) trespassing in Byzantine lands shows Constantinople at size 1. Lux to 20%, Science to 80%. Philosophy in 12, -1gpt.
IBT- Hyannis Rax>Settler Oasis Creek Rax>Worker
Turn 2 (1700) scouting Jag warrior finds a Babylonian Spear fortified on a land bridge. Hammurabi is up BW, Masonry, CB, down Writing.
IBT - Plainville Warrior>Worker
Turn 3 (1675) Not much.
IBT Cotuit Jag Warrior>Settler
Byzantines building Colossus.
Turn 4 (1650) not much...
IBT -
Turn 5 (1625) not much
IBT - Hyannis Settler>Archer
Babylonians building Oracle.
Turn 6 (1600) Babs have a fresh research queue... wait one turn to trade writing. Move settler out.
IBT - Oasis Creek Worker>Archer
Turn 7 (1575) Trade Babylon Writing for Ceremonial Burial+Horseback Riding+14g.
Trade HBR+Writing+40g to Theodora for BW+Masonry. Move some stuff around.
IBT - Theodora demands 22g. Since we're still in 'expansion mode', she gets it...and a mental note. Plymouth Curraugh>Barracks
Turn 8 (1550) Byzantines and Babylonians both have IW. Move some stuff around.
IBT - Hyannis Archer>Archer
Cotuit Settler>Palace (Statue of Zeus pre-build)
Turn 9 (1525) Something I can't type comes up in the city queue, so the town I found gets called RushPoint. Starts a spear. Sail our Curraugh northward.
IBT -
Turn 10 (1500) move another settler pair out. New town in 2 turns.
We have 35gpt, Philosophy in 3, -2gpt (will change when settler pops) I suggest Map Making or CoL as Free Tech if we get Philo, trade for IW and Myst, then a hard burn to Mathematics. SoZ pre-build is in the queue at Cotuit if we want it. RushPoint claims a couple of BGs that could be used for the purpose. 2 workers mining BG at Plymouth could be pushed south to improve terrain for SoZ and connect RushPoint.
