Settling Distance

[GT Ranma]

Am I remembering incorrectly, or did C2C use to have a rule that the AI and PC could not settle new cities within 3 squares of each other?

I started a game with v35 and the AI settled a city RIGHT up next to mine. 2 squares away. Both their city and my city are total crap, so I did what any normal Tyrant would do and destroyed their city. But I now have a map full of AI cities that are only 2 spaces apart and are total crap. I am rolling over them like a steam roller and it ... well isn't really all that fun...

Sooo, am I remembering incorrectly, or what?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

There is a setting somewhere for the minimum distance between cities. I don't know which it is.

edit The field is in Assets/XML/GlobalDefines.XML and it is MIN_CITY_RANGE and is currently set to 2.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Am I remembering incorrectly, or did C2C use to have a rule that the AI and PC could not settle new cities within 3 squares of each other?

I started a game with v35 and the AI settled a city RIGHT up next to mine. 2 squares away. Both their city and my city are total crap, so I did what any normal Tyrant would do and destroyed their city. But I now have a map full of AI cities that are only 2 spaces apart and are total crap. I am rolling over them like a steam roller and it ... well isn't really all that fun...

Sooo, am I remembering incorrectly, or what?

Game set up option Minimum Borders allows this.

Don't go changing the file setting

edit The field is in Assets/XML/GlobalDefines.XML and it is MIN_CITY_RANGE and is currently set to 2.

or you will be causing more problems. If you don't want the AI that close then make sure that Option is Unchecked. And if you are "rolling over them" then your Difficulty level is too low too. Up it.

JosEPh

 

[GT Ranma]

Hmm, strange, that is misleading then, because when you mouse over it the text reads "8 tiles around city can never be conquered via cultural influence".

Had I known it decreased the minimum amount of tiles for settlement, I would not have taken it ; ;

Hmm, I've been playing on Monarch. Guess I could up it. But the problem really is more... AI then the insane bonuses given to the NPCs via difficulty. I mean, I just took over Australia and they only had about... 1/5th their units defending their cities, the rest were wandering around ... doing god knows what. Definitely not defending.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Game set up option Minimum Borders allows this.

I don't use that option and the AI is still settling cities 2 apart.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I don't use that option and the AI is still settling cities 2 apart.

I don't use More Rivers or More Resources Options either but If I don't check them specifically they get turned On automatically. T-Brd had something to do with that. Same thing happens with Minimum Borders. Especially when New Options get added to the Options list.

Original BtS allows 2 tile spacings, iirc. And I know RoM used to allow it too. I loved it back then cause if you or the AI left a space open when filling in your cities, you or the AI could and the AI would plop a city in that space.

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I made sure it was not checked when I started the game. yes it is annoying that those options don't stay the way you set them unlike all the other options.

 

[Thunderbrd]

They're just set to a default.

However, if I recall, the last time a given option was self-selecting despite the usual cached 'last selections made' list thus defying the previous settings, it was because there was a mismatch between options and the enums in the dll. I can doublecheck that at some point here to see if there is in-fact a mismatch at the moment.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Hmm, strange, that is misleading then, because when you mouse over it the text reads "8 tiles around city can never be conquered via cultural influence".

Had I known it decreased the minimum amount of tiles for settlement, I would not have taken it ; ;

Hmm, I've been playing on Monarch. Guess I could up it. But the problem really is more... AI then the insane bonuses given to the NPCs via difficulty. I mean, I just took over Australia and they only had about... 1/5th their units defending their cities, the rest were wandering around ... doing god knows what. Definitely not defending.

I think you misread what it says. The old C2C way, before the Minimum Option was put into the C2C Options list, the 8 tiles surrounding the city "never can be conquered" was the default. But when the Minimum was added it allows Culture to take tiles from those 8, like vanilla BtS and RoM used to allow. Basically because City Flipping was impossible with the way C2C had made the 8 surrounding tiles impervious to external cultural influence. That's why you could plop a city next to an AI city that had the Fat X already developed and you could "claim" an outer tile or 3 depending upon where you set "your" city down. Minimum City Borders was a return to the more traditional way Culture worked in BtS. 45*38'N of the AND team is the originator of this Option.

JosEPh

 

[Arakhor]

In my game, some civilisations are settling cities only two squares apart, which is really silly on a Large map. I think that the minimum distance apart should be 3.

Having tried out Minimum City Borders, I dislike it being activated (i.e. a city always having nine squares). However, if you build a city next to someone else's fort, that square remains their culture and is not automatically grabbed by the city.

 

[GT Ranma]

I think you misread what it says. The old C2C way, before the Minimum Option was put into the C2C Options list, the 8 tiles surrounding the city "never can be conquered" was the default. But when the Minimum was added it allows Culture to take tiles from those 8, like vanilla BtS and RoM used to allow. Basically because City Flipping was impossible with the way C2C had made the 8 surrounding tiles impervious to external cultural influence. That's why you could plop a city next to an AI city that had the Fat X already developed and you could "claim" an outer tile or 3 depending upon where you set "your" city down. Minimum City Borders was a return to the more traditional way Culture worked in BtS. 45*38'N of the AND team is the originator of this Option.

JosEPh

IC.

And second, well, that does not answer my original question then. I could have sworn C2C used a 3 tile system between cities, not 2.

And would argue that with the ability to 'work' up to 3 tiles away from your city now extremely handicaps the AI because they are settling their cities where they can only work 1 (ONE!!) tile away from their cities, while I can work all 3.

 

[alberts8]

IC.

And second, well, that does not answer my original question then. I could have sworn C2C used a 3 tile system between cities, not 2.

And would argue that with the ability to 'work' up to 3 tiles away from your city now extremely handicaps the AI because they are settling their cities where they can only work 1 (ONE!!) tile away from their cities, while I can work all 3.

Maybe a very very long time ago but it is set to 2 since at least 3 years.

 

[JosEPh_II]

In my game, some civilisations are settling cities only two squares apart, which is really silly on a Large map. I think that the minimum distance apart should be 3.

Having tried out Minimum City Borders, I dislike it being activated (i.e. a city always having nine squares). However, if you build a city next to someone else's fort, that square remains their culture and is not automatically grabbed by the city.

Arakhor, Sorry, but you have it backwards.

JosEPh

 

[Arakhor]

I do? Cities definitely have an instant 3x3 estate in my game, so I'll check the game options and see what's enabled.

 

[AIAndy]

Maybe a very very long time ago but it is set to 2 since at least 3 years.

To avoid confusion: MIN_CITY_RANGE means the minimum number of non city plots between 2 cities. So with the default value of 2 a unit would have to move 3 plots to get from one city to another that is built as closely as possible. This is standard BtS behavior.

 

[GT Ranma]

To avoid confusion: MIN_CITY_RANGE means the minimum number of non city plots between 2 cities. So with the default value of 2 a unit would have to move 3 plots to get from one city to another that is built as closely as possible. This is standard BtS behavior.

Yeah, it is standard BtS behavior, but I thought it changed when we added in the 3 workable tiles to the game. As that was not standard BtS behavior, and with the AI using only 2 spaces, it was completely nerfing the NPC cities...

 

[JosEPh_II]

Yeah, it is standard BtS behavior, but I thought it changed when we added in the 3 workable tiles to the game. As that was not standard BtS behavior, and with the AI using only 2 spaces, it was completely nerfing the NPC cities...

You are confusing Larger City Radius thru Admin buildings with Minimum City Borders. 2 different Options. There is also the Option of using the 3rd city ring After getting enough Culture and Not having to have to Use Metropolitan Admin Building to do so.

So you have 2 Options for being able to work the 3rd ring of tiles vs Losing tiles from the base 9 thru culture.

Is it becoming clearer yet?

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I too thought we had changed MIN_CITY_RANGE to 3. However it does cause some problems and people complained so it must have been set back to 2.

Note: this value has nothing to do with any options. IE no option changes it.

 

[GT Ranma]

You are confusing Larger City Radius thru Admin buildings with Minimum City Borders. 2 different Options. There is also the Option of using the 3rd city ring After getting enough Culture and Not having to have to Use Metropolitan Admin Building to do so.

So you have 2 Options for being able to work the 3rd ring of tiles vs Losing tiles from the base 9 thru culture.

Is it becoming clearer yet?

JosEPh

Um... yeah, no I did not. What I am saying I will reiterate, and hopefully it will become clear.

The AI will settle NPCs 2 tiles away from their other cities. This allows their cities to only have 1 workable tile away for city growth. (Some places 2, but still, they usually will only have 1 side out of 4 able to use all 2 blocks.) While the PC will settle their cities way more then 3 blocks away, usually 6, so that each city can work all 3 blocks away from their cities. This gives the PC a HUGE advantage over the NPC cities where the AI cannot and does not understand the fact that their cities are going to be completely trash if they settle their cities with only 1 block of usable tiles.

See what I am saying? If we are going to keep it at 2, could we at least have an option to have 3 min tiles instead of 2? A radial button for it like so many other options we have? I am playing on the hardest difficulty and by Modern era I am destroying them because my city sizes are in the 70s and theirs are in the 40s.....................

 

[AIAndy]

While not as comfortable as an in game option, you can easily change that global define to whatever you like in the XML file DH mentioned.

With buildings playing such a large role in C2C I am not entirely sure that placing cities very dense is a disadvantage.