Several questions regarding city size and other concepts

[AvalancheMaster]

Hello there.

I have several questions regarding modding city size.

The first question is pretty straightforward and I guess the answer to it will be "no" - is it possible to add a fourth city size? I do not need it to use different graphics (that, in my experience, will be impossible), but is there any way to restrict cities from going over, say, 20 population?

Is it possible to disable freshwater adjacent cities from reaching size 2? I want fresh water to be a requirement for size 3 cities.

I know it is impossible to add worker actions, but is it possible to make irrigation, roads and mines give non-specific bonuses, like irrigation giving shields? Is it possible to increase the bonus from modified terrain through technological advances?

Is it possible to limit the movement on railroads? 0 is highly unrealistic. I know that we can do that with roads, but still...

Also, if I have two civilization advances that double the effect of "wealth", would they quadruple the effect, when both are researched?

I guess that pretty much sums up my questions. Thanks to those who will take their time to give their feedback.

 

[Ozymandias]

Hello there.

I have several questions regarding modding city size.

(1) The first question is pretty straightforward and I guess the answer to it will be "no" - is it possible to add a fourth city size? I do not need it to use different graphics (that, in my experience, will be impossible), but is there any way to restrict cities from going over, say, 20 population?

(2) Is it possible to disable freshwater adjacent cities from reaching size 2? I want fresh water to be a requirement for size 3 cities.

(3) I know it is impossible to add worker actions, but is it possible to make irrigation, roads and mines give non-specific bonuses, like irrigation giving shields? Is it possible to increase the bonus from modified terrain through technological advances?

(4) Is it possible to limit the movement on railroads? 0 is highly unrealistic. I know that we can do that with roads, but still...

(5) Also, if I have two civilization advances that double the effect of "wealth", would they quadruple the effect, when both are researched?

I guess that pretty much sums up my questions. Thanks to those who will take their time to give their feedback.

Well, you seem to have hit just about every modder's frustration in one list.

I've taken the liberty of numbering your list ...

(1) Sadly, you're correct: No. And No.
(2) Again, No, Nein, Nyet.
(3) *Sigh* again, Nope (I don't think ANY of us could believe how much of the game was hard-coded, evidently by sleep deprived itinerant grave robbers working a second job.)
(4) (guess ... OK, NO)
(5) Rather than run the board, I'll just give you THIS LINK to a comprehensive list of which effects are cumulative and those which are not.

:suicide: ,

Oz

 

[Etain]

.....

 

[Virote_Considon]

You would need an improvement/wonder which allows city size 3, but it would have to be made unbuildable.

 

[AvalancheMaster]

If you made the Level 2 city size maximum 20 and then do not have any improvement/wonder with the "Allows city size level 3" flag checked you could keep the population ceiling at 20. This would also eliminate population pollution since that kicks in at level 3.

Nah.

I am making a wee mod for myself based on urban planning. I planned on having four city sizes - Town, City, Metropolis and Megapolis. Still not a big problem as the other points, though.

I wanted to have a requirement for Level 2 cities - Cathedral (as this was the difference between towns and cities historically), and for Level 3 - Public Housing project.

Still, it will be possible to change the mines and irrigation to Industrial Zones and Burroughs. Plant Forest will be changed to Suburbias, following this tutorial.

Is it possible to change the terrain type "plant forest" produces? Is it possible to disable "clear forest" for "Forest", but not for "LM Forest"?

Also, I'm surprised that there's nothing similar to AngelScript for CivIII. I've seen it used to work around hard-coded restrictions - a really nice example is the old platformer Jazz Jackrabbit 2, where the latest version can change the enemies' lives, their behavior, adds new enemies, new weapons, adds mouse support and cursor for changing the direction of the projectiles, and even new background renderings.

EDIT: Still, I have no answer for the Wealth question. Thanks Oz for answering all the other questions, even though the answer was "no".

 

[Etain]

.....

 

[Vuldacon]

AvalancheMaster... Keep in mind that when you change a main Terrain and the X Terrain to two different Terrains, you can only have one Terrain image in the Civilopedia Terrain that will show the Main Terrain and Not the X Terrain because in the Normal Game both terrains are the same type.

One "work around" that I have used is to Combine the Two different Terrains on one image and have a description of both there.

Regarding the Terrain type... the tutorial addresses that with a "work around" if I understand your question and as far as I know, if you disable clear Forest it would also affect LM Forest.

To have workers able to do their different jobs, all flags need to be checked for them but you can disable jobs such as clear Forest by requiring an Unobtainable Resource. Also in the editor, you can simply omit placing a Civilopedia entry in worker Jobs for Clear Forest and it will not show in Worker Jobs in game. This helps IF you do not want to explain that job cannot be done and you also don't want the Unobtainable resource to show. The Job will simply not exist.

I have not experimented with Wealth but I believe if you have two advances that double Wealth, both would work. Set up the two advances for a fast in game test to see.

 

[Ozymandias]

Still, I have no answer for the Wealth question. Thanks Oz for answering all the other questions, even though the answer was "no".

... You know, sometimes we really DO NEED a "palm slap" smilie ... Here: I'll borrow one:



Sometimes the Devil is in the semantics ...

I thought you were referring to an Improvement Flag, not the "wealth doubling" under advancements (am I right this time?)

{ ... 3 hours time goes by while Oz scours the Archives ... ... }

... WOW! ... I don't believe this question has EVER been asked before!!!

... Anyone ...?

I'm buried in both Real and Surreal Life ATM. Would someone - maybe AvalancheMaster? - kindly set up a simple test for this?

@AvalancheMaster:


Best To All,

 

[AvalancheMaster]

I will set up a test for this, I was just being too lazy and I thought that somebody has already tried this out.

Also, does anybody know why TOW Infantry has a Worker Strength set to 100? It is the only unit, besides Workers themselves, with WS other than 0.

Also, is it possible to make the flag unit give food when delivered to a city, and is it possible to change the size of the biggest area around a city that can be worked on?

 

[Ozymandias]

I will set up a test for this

Also, does anybody know why TOW Infantry has a Worker Strength set to 100? It is the only unit, besides Workers themselves, with WS other than 0.

Given the overall, um, "Quality Control" evidently put into the game's production, it's probably just a mercifully insignificant slip.

Also, is it possible to make the flag unit give food when delivered to a city, and is it possible to change the size of the biggest area around a city that can be worked on?

The food delivery system from Civ2 was dropped (along with a few other features I seriously miss.) And the present limits re: area workable around cities are among the many, many, um, "blissfully" - by which I really mean needlessly and stupidly - eatures hardcoded into the game.

- Welcome to the wonderful world of C3C modding, in which some genuinely spectacular creations are devised and Great Merriment had by all


Happy Thanksgiving,

Oz

 

[Vuldacon]

When you add a new unit to a game the Biq defaults to 100 worker strength and you have to manually change that to 0... so that was as Ozy said, probably a slip they just missed. Because they are not workers and have no worker jobs, it will not change anything concerning the unit.

 

[AvalancheMaster]

What does "worker strength" refer to, then?

 

[Ozymandias]

What does "worker strength" refer to, then?

Sometimes the "Helpless" in the C3C editor does come in handy:

Worker Strength (Unit Statistics)
Determines the worker strength of the selected unit. By default, the Worker Strength of each unit is "100". However, this value means nothing unless a unit has also been flagged with one or more "Worker/Engineer Actions", in which case that unit's Worker Strength value determines that worker's work rate. For instance, a worker with a Worker Strength of 100 performs his designated worker action at normal speed. If the Worker Strength value of a worker is set at "50" that worker works at "half" (50%) speed, and thus would take twice as long to perform a given task as a worker with a Worker Strength of 100; conversely, if the Worker Strength value of a worker is set at "200" that worker works at "double" (200%) speed, and thus would take only half as long to perform a given task as a worker with a Worker Strength of 100.

Cheers, and Happy Thanksgiving,

z

 

[AvalancheMaster]

Ok, several more questions:

Is it possible to make a tech requirement for "Build Colony"?

Is it possible to allow railroads only on certain terrain types? Also, is it possible to remove the requirement for a road in order to build railroad?

 

[Ozymandias]

Ok, several more questions:

Is it possible to make a tech requirement for "Build Colony"?

Is it possible to allow railroads only on certain terrain types? Also, is it possible to remove the requirement for a road in order to build railroad?

I'm beginning to think that I should write a tutorial on how to research Civ questions

1. Yes. In the Editor, just as with any Worker job, except that in that menu it's called an, "Outpost" not a, "Colony."
2. Yes. Sort of. If you set the "Road/Commerce" Terraform Value to 0, roads will not be able to be built in that terrain, and therefore no railroads either.
3. Nope. Gotta have the road to haul in all the material and workers to build that RR (at least, that's what I imagine the logic was.)

... BTW, I'm going to be expecting one heck of a mod from you


Cheerio,

Oz

 

[AvalancheMaster]

I'm beginning to think that I should write a tutorial on how to research Civ questions

1. Yes. In the Editor, just as with any Worker job, except that in that menu it's called an, "Outpost" not a, "Colony."
2. Yes. Sort of. If you set the "Road/Commerce" Terraform Value to 0, roads will not be able to be built in that terrain, and therefore no railroads either.
3. Nope. Gotta have the road to haul in all the material and workers to build that RR (at least, that's what I imagine the logic was.)

... BTW, I'm going to be expecting one heck of a mod from you


Cheerio,

Oz

1. Oh! Snap!
2. Nah. Not suitable.
3. I won't be using a material for railroads. Guess I'll make a quick test.

And, while we're at it, I have some news - while messing with the BIQ in a hex editor (gosh, I think I said that I am not working on this mod) I think I've found a way to add a fifth, sixth and so on eras.

 

[Ozymandias]

1. Oh! Snap!
2. Nah. Not suitable.
3. I won't be using a material for railroads. Guess I'll make a quick test.

And, while we're at it, I have some news - while messing with the BIQ in a hex editor (gosh, I think I said that I am not working on this mod) I think I've found a way to add a fifth, sixth and so on eras.

No Resource need be required for RRs, just a road first.

Ah, resourceful ... ... check out the .bix/.biq file format Here.

BTW, there have been a couple or so attempts to add extra-eras or pseudo-eras; they didn't really grab my attention, so I don't think I bookmarked the entries but I'll poke around.

-Oz

 

[AvalancheMaster]

w00t w00t


I think I'll miss my lectures tomorrow. Gosh, it's 1am and I've just opened a BIQ into a hex editor.

Fingers crossed!

 

[AvalancheMaster]

Ah! Damn it!

I spent an hour trying to add a fifth era in the hex editor. When I change the number of eras to 5 (and add a fifth era in the editor, respectively), it does nothing - apparently there's a hard-coded handicap in the game. When I change the number of eras to 3, and leave only 3 eras in (delete Modern Times), the editor cannot open the file.

I understand why they hardcoded a lot of the stuff, but really - can somebody explain why they put such handicaps, when it is clearly up to the BIQ file how many eras you can have?

 

[Yoda Power]

1. Yes. In the Editor, just as with any Worker job, except that in that menu it's called an, "Outpost" not a, "Colony."

What determines when you can build Outposts then?