SGFN-06: Brits in Space

The Iroquois have towns east, south, north and west of us. The whole of our empire would become a frontline in a war with Hiawatha if he were to declare now.
It would mean game over for us.

We need to build up in a way that'll allow us to take out those 2 towns in our backyard first, that would seriously narrow our front.
Then we need artillery at Nottingham; Hiawatha will mainly come with stacks of slow units; we need artillery to take them out.
Then if the odds are turning in our favor we can move forward and take some of his towns. Well, that's how I see it at least.
 
I agree with Optional's basic plan, but I can't execute it. Sorry, folks. I've got something going every night for the rest of my natural life. Well, OK, through next Sunday. I don't even have time during the day this next weekend. Please declare this a skip instead of a swap, and the next in line can run with it.
 
Who is next in line? Me? I will have to scan the thread to figure it out.

Edit: I guess the roster keeper(that guy over there<------) is slacking off. I guess I'll post a help wanted if anyone wants the job.

Roster update:

1: TheOverseer714=> up
2: PrinceMyshkin=> on deck
3: Rodent=> warming up
4: Northen Wolf=> Medical leave
5: Anaxagoras=> skipped, due to technical problems
6: Optional/Hynestrider=> waiting
 
A question to the team....what use are the Romans? They made peace with the Iroquois and their Archers are in our territory, like they might want to grab one of our cities. They also refused any deal for Feudalism, despite being a 1CC. We need some war happiness too, and they are the easiest candidate.
 
I didn't DoW the Romans and I have finished my turns. I'm not sure I did very well, so I stuck to 10 turns. Here is the turn-log:
Spoiler :

Pre-Flight: CivAssist 2, Word running. Open the save, look things over.
Switch some horseman builds to Swords, I like a mix. Our economy is horrible, We definitely need more towns, we need to get ready and get the first war going soon or we’ll go bankrupt on unit support.

Civilian units:
Settlers 2
Workers 20

Military units:
Warriors 4
Archer 1
Spear 1
Swords 4
Horsemen 4
Galley 1
Curragh 1

Support:
Units: 38
Allowed: 14
Support cost: 48 gpt

Contacts 7
Iroquois-Peace
Germans-Peace
Romans-Peace
Mongols-Peace
Sumerians-Peace -
Americans-Peace
Byzantines-Peace

Research
Monotheism, 1 turns at -17gpt

Sliders
3/6/1, 19 gold, 17gpt.

Press Enter=>

IBT: Byzantines warn us about our intruding boat….I apologize.
Monotheism arrives, next is Feudalism in a number of turns TBDL.
Nottingham Sword=>Horseman.
Stockton on Tees Library=Marketplace.

Turn 1, 170 BC: Make a deal with Temujin, 5 gpt for 75 gold to finance research. This gives us the ability to research Feudalism in 6 turns at -15 gpt, a must have tech, and even the pissant Romans refuse to trade it for anything.
Settle Reading near Kahnawake. Disband a Warrior.

IBT: Iroquois and Rome make peace.
Iroquois begin work on Sistinne Chapel, so Theology is already out there.

Turn 2, 150 BC: Birmingham settled near horses on Island. No horses for Hiawatha there. We may never see any MWs this game, since they usually won’t build AA units once they get to the MA.

IBT: Romans and Iroquois make peace.
London Settler=>Settler.
Oxford Galley=>Galley.
Our Ivory deal ends.

Turn 3, 130 BC: Lower tech slider, raise lux slider. We have nothing to trade for any luxes. We need a phony war to get some war happiness.

IBT: York Trebuchet=>Trebuchet.
Hastings Horseman=> Horseman.
Romans get a cultural expansion. One of their Archers fortifies in our land.
Why are we keeping them around?

Turn 4, 110 BC: Disband a Warrior. Load new settler up send him south.

IBT: Roman Archers go home……boooo!
Nottingham Horseman=>Swordsman.
Norwich Trebuchet=>Trebuchet.

Turn 5, 90 BC: Transfer Settler to another boat.
Disband last 2 Warriors.

IBT: Iroquois Spear from Kahnawake enters our territory.

Turn 6, 70 BC: Finally, I can trade for Feudalism.
Trade Monotheism to Rome for Feudalism.
I turn the tech rate to 0% to get a bit of money for deficit research.
We can’t get a monopoly on anything, all available techs for research are out there.
Iroquois and Sumeria are too chummy, they are becoming twin runaways.

IBT: I put the tech slider up 40%, running -13 gpt to get Invention in 15 turns. Our unit costs are killing us.
London Settler=>Settler.

Turn 7, 50 BC: Move new Settler to load up, other one can land next turn.

IBT: Nothing to report.

Turn 8, 30 BC: Load up new Settler, other one lands, finding a Mongol Archer and settler on a mountain nearby.

IBT: Abe warns about curragh, yeah, yeah, sorry.

Turn 9, 10 BC: Settle Richmond on Island.=>Wealth.

IBT: York Trebuchet=>Trebuchet.

Turn 10, 10 AD: Trade contact with Germany to Iroquois for 40 gold.
To Sumeria for 1 gpt. I stop here, I think I’m not doing that well with it.

Civilian units:
Settler 1
Workers 20

Military units:
Archer 1
Spear 1
Swords 5
Horsemen 7
Trebuchets 3
Galleys 2
Curragh 1

Support:
Units: 41
Allowed: 17
Support cost: 48 gpt

Contacts7
Iroquois-Peace
Romams-Peace
Germans-Peace
Mongols-Peace
America-Peace
Sumerians-Unmet
Byzantines –Unmet

Research
Invention, 11 turns at -8gpt.

Sliders
4/4/2, 88 gold, -8gpt


The save:
 
Maybe I'll get ya some later, though so little has changed. DG seems like hunker down until you can get a war going, and right now we might get crushed should we start one with who we need to attack. We might consider a phony war, we need a happy boost.
 
Good turnset and turn-log, Overseer.

TheOverseer714 said:
A question to the team....what use are the Romans? They made peace with the Iroquois and their Archers are in our territory, like they might want to grab one of our cities. They also refused any deal for Feudalism, despite being a 1CC. We need some war happiness too, and they are the easiest candidate.

In the context of this game, not much, but they won't provide us with much war happiness, since they wouldn't last too long, right? I also think we need more towns and need to go to war soon to not halt our expansion. I'll keep research on invention of course, but soon look to do research on the upper branch of the tech tree. It's nice that the ai is not too far ahead of us in research, so I have confidence we'll get to space. I'm going to need to spend more time looking at this and I also believe we should look into setting up a phony war for war happiness boost. Give me a few days if that's all right and I should be able to come up with a detailed plan.
 
Good to see a post of you again, PrinceMyshkin, as it had been a while.
You're up as well, incase you're unaware.

I can't think of any sophisticated strategy involving the Romans. In my set they were still at war with the Iroquois and I had some faint hope they might take Tyendenaga. After all, they should have been able to produce archers faster from Ravanna than the Iroquois could produce spears in Tyendenaga.
But at the moment I would simply take Ravenna.

We probably need more clarity about our research path. A couple of us had wanted to research more horizontally to develop a tech lead. And if we're now researching Invention, and want to do Theology after that, we're still researching obsolete techs, and that's what probably put us behind in the first place.
As we now seem to be on the Military Tradition beeline path, I wouldn't mind sticking to that. In my opinion we need some conquest before universities. Especially having only one domestic lux is a problem.
How to go about the war is something I'm less sure about. I'm not so keen on attacking a fully healthy Demigod AI. If we were to declare on the Iroquois now, we would be lucky to hang on to Nottingham. Normally I would try to set them up against someone else first. Sumeria would be best, but I don't know how to engineer this with our current research path, as we only seem to be researching obsolete techs, and paying gpt will leave us pretty broke.
 
In my games, I tend to head for Military Tradition, since Cavalry is the gamebreaker most of the time, at least as far as making war. I generally trade for the peaceful side of the tree. Invention may be obsolete, but it leads to techs that aren't and if we focus on them, we can eventually get tradeable techs. I agree that the Iroquois need distracted, if we fight them one on one, we will lose. My thoughts on Rome, their culture is keeping us from a town of ours, and they are small enough for a quick knockout. They have pretty much nothing to offer us, and we need the space they are occupying. I say kill 'em.
 
Researching north or researching south can both be fine. But hopping between the one and the other won't work, as you'll never get the edge that way. So we just need to pick a line as a team.
Military Tradition can be a gamebreaker, but so can Music Tradition, if you can use it as trade bait for an important alliance.
The right war diplomacy is going to be crucial in this game, rather than our own military. Look at our production; our best towns are producing only 7 spt, we're gonna struggle to build up a decent force of knights and cavalry.
I believe we need to try and get out of our little pocket before Military Tradition. I would even keep the possibilty open to trade horses to Iroquois if that can get us the right type of alliance. That would be risky, I know, but we're probably walking a thin line whatever we do.
 
I would like to analyse which way the AI is going first.

I also Generally like to go Cavalry first, but in this case without production, Cavalry will not be that Useful. I think we should Research the Theology path and use tech as bait to gang up civs on Iroq and Sumer and we can wait for the Iroq to weaken substantially before we attack.
 
Lurker commenting: The title of the game reads "Brits in space." Yet, in the middle ages you guys went Monotheism (that sounds good)-Feudalism (looks quizzically)-Invention (throws up hands). Then I read Overseer (sorry Overseer, you're a good guy, I just don't get your *comment*) talking about cavalry as a "gamebreaker". Sure, they break the game open when you want to crush the AI to a bloody pulp. But, for a space race game? Then I also read Overseer saying that invention leads to techs which you can trade. I guess Overseer means Gunpowder. Maybe, if you can get there first, but you guys have already gotten behind. So, how will you trade Gunpowder around? Chemistry you might trade around, because the AI tends to ignore it. But, if the AIs already have Gunpowder, why not go for Education or even Theology or *gasp* Printing Press (as a trading technology... hmmmm... possibly even to fish for an SGL, but that's too unreliable really) trade for Gunpowder and pick up the tech pace? Remember, the AIs tend to die in the tech race in the industrial age (with some exceptions).

On top of this the AIs usually tend to go Feudalism-Engineering-Invention-Gunpowder with Monotheism and Theology thrown in there somewhere. Hmmm... four techs on the bottom part of the tree vs. two on the top part of the tree. On top of this, Education comes after Theology and that enables universities which enables your empire to research faster. On top of this Astronomy comes after Education whereby you *might* just snag Cope's for faster research (and it's not an optional tech)... if you have a pre-build going and/or good luck. On top of this, Banking lies at the top of the tree. Seriously, if you haven't done so already, circle that tech for a diplo. or space game where you want a good tech pace. Why? Well, if you hadn't managed some decent trading in the early middle ages, a few turns after the AIs have Banking, especially on Demi-God and Deity, the AIs will have plenty of gpt that you can run 100% research and make a profit, or come close to doing so, as long as you can manage a tech lead. But, how will you do that if you don't have universities and other basic infrastructure up (markets, courts as needed, maybe even a temple or cathedral on some maps where you lack luxuries)?

Also, it seems you all plan on plenty of war. Well, remember it's a space game (or have you guys changed your mind?). In other words tread carefully with war... it's only a means to an end (specialist farms, more native luxuries/resources). So, if/when you war, you'd preferably pick a weaker opponent so you can leech money off of the stronger AIs. Also, that way you can minimize losses and thus minimize war weariness which if not kept in check, can cause all sorts of happiness problems which consequently can cause production/commerce problems... especially with larger AI armies. Warring while hand-building Cope's or Newton's (both good for a space game, maybe Smith's also) doesn't sound all that great of an idea. If you get both or even one, your empire has more research power, while the AIs have less research power.

Sorry if I sound harsh. I just don't get the decisions of some veterans in this game. Oh... it says SGFN... but it's game 6, so I think you guys vets.
 
Mostly I think we are wanting more land, we are pretty compressed in our little corner. I guess we could stop researching altogether and buy our research. I think this team works on the premise of grabbing more land and surely good things will come of it. Interesting critique, maybe it might change some ideas on this game, maybe not. Trying to mesh 5 playstyles into a team is bound to end up a bit messy.
 
I agree with the above, it is the different playstyles that are hard to mesh. Personally, I at least try to avoid researching optional techs in a space game.

I feel I'm going to need a skip to take a break from CivIII for awhile. Please put me on indefinite skip for now and I'll return when I'm able.
 
Sorry to hear you have the civ-blahs, Prince. Hopefully it is a short bout. That means Rodent is up.
 
I have Civ-blahs too :sad:.

Will play Monday Hopefully
 
Lurker's comment: Hey guys, name's Peebo, I recently got back into playing Civ3 and reading on the forums to improve my game. I usually only play on warlord level, which is embarrassing, and I'm hoping to move up to higher levels. Since I learned about succession games and stumbled across this thread, I've gotten a lot of great advice just from hearing you guys talk over your decisions, and I'm doing a lot better than usual in my current game. Maybe someday I'll join a succession game!
Anyway, it looks like y'all have stalled a bit and had some drop-outs, but I hope you stick with it, because this looks like a challenging but really interesting game and I want to see how it turns out. Good luck and godspeed! Peebo's pulling for you! :D
 
Rodent? You alive?
 
Spoiler :
Turn 0-Everything in Order

Turn 1-Temujin asks us to leave, Go Clean yourself first.

-London-Settler->Settler

nottingham-MI->Mi

Liverpool-Treb->Treb


move units towards ravenna

Turn 2- Abe demands 22 gold. I tell him to go to hell. He backs off. Ha ha.

Hastings-MI->Mi
Oxford-Galley->Treb

Norwich Riots. I thought I had FIXED that. What in the world?

Birmingham-Worker->Worker

Load Settler on Galley and send him off.

got to wait till turn 3 to DOW Caesar.

Turn 3-Newcastle upon tyne-Galley->Treb


get all units out of Roman Territory. Make Caesar VERY angry and Declare War.

Horseman kills Archer. loses 2 hp.

Swordman loses to archer without doing a Single HP of damage.

Land settler from Galley.

Turn 4-Aylesbury-MI->MI

OK, we are at 8 gold, with -20gpt. Take Measures. Science is back at 20%, Invention in 10 turns.

MI kills Archer flawlessly, promotes to elite.

Found Exeter.

Got to hire Sceintist in Stockton on Tees. Too bad.

Turn 5-London-Settler->Settler

Horseman kills Archer, doesnt lose Hp.

Turn 6- York-Treb->Treb
Norwich-Treb->treb


attack Ravenna. Spear kills MI. Spear kills MI. Swordk kills Spear. there are 3 spears in Ravenna

Turn 7-Nottingham-MI->MI

Ayelsbury Riots, Change Geek to Joker.

Dover-Treb->treb

Turn 8-Oxford-Treb->Treb

Sumeria is building JS bach


Attack Ravenna Again. Sword kills Spear.Horse kills Spear and Ravenna is Captured. The Romans are no more.

Turn 8-london-Settler->Settler

Penzance-Spear->Worker

Penzance has to starve.

I take a BIG BIG decision. Hi and we cant live together. DOW him.

Turn 9- Temujin demands Iron. get a bath first, They Declare War.

Hastings-MI->MI

Forbidden palace complete in hereford. Starts MI

Bombard the 4 AC in the Area. drop 2 to 3 Hp and drop 2 to 4 HP

MI dies on 3 HP AC. horseman kills AC. MI kills AC. Horseman dies on AC. Sword kills AC.

kill a Galley with Galley.

IT- iroq kill a sword and an MI


Horse kills 2 AC.

ok guys, we are dead, this game was an hard one, Hopefully you will respect me for my supposedly rash decision to DOW the Iroq
and understand that this game was lost.

the Force Iroq has moved in consisted of 5 MI,4 AC, and a few LBs and archers. good bye England, hope to win with you next time.


We are dead. I took a rash decision and it didnt pay off. Hopefully you wont Flame me too much for what I did
 

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