SGFN-06: Skull session - what next?

[TheOverseer714]

Warrior> warrior> curragh> settler> granary looks like a good path, and yes a minimum run on Writing towards the sling makes sense. 1 warrior as an mp, 1 to explore. I assume a close spacing in our core and starting the capital as a settler factory. I will run my turnset probably tomorrow, so now it is discussion time.

 

[anaxagoras]

I would favor Writing at max. It will show as 50 turns at first, but we'll actually get it quicker than that as soon additonal towns are founded.

I'd rather skip the first curragh until the first settler is in. I am generally in favor of founding the second town absolutely as quickly as possible. Is that a mistake at DG?

 

[Sashie VII]

lurker's comment: How about a third warrior so that you can cover three directions of exploration in your quest for expansion? Might be faster to get contacts then a curragh, cheaper too.

EDIT: Forgot you're playing England (seafaring).

 

[TheOverseer714]

If our capital is our settler farm, Writing will take 50 turns, due to losing population. We could try a max run, but I'm not sure it will take less than 50. The curragh could come out of another coastal town. Some stuff will probably change with actually playig anyway.

 

[Optional]

I hope some of our other players will give their ideas as well, but my thinking is that an early curragh, in combination with having Alphabet, can be a big help in early trading. England is not as good in this as Portugal or Hittites, because they have scouts, but even England should be able to snap up techs easily, and buy some workers for techs, money or a combination of both.
I find these trading activities always much easier when going minimum on research. It's difficult without CivAssistII though, especially finding out which civ has workers for sale.

 

[Northen Wolf]

It's difficult without CivAssistII though, especially finding out which civ has workers for sale.

or MapStat. Also early worker buying cripples AI big time.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

I would go for writing at max science. We should save 5-6 turns on writing and these could make all the difference on our chances at the republic slingshot. If we are successful or are the first to CoL at least we should easily be able to trade for all AA techs. To increase our chances we'll likely not want to trade alphabet or writing too easily even if some have it.

I think it's important to get as many contacts as we can asap, so I favor an early exploring warrior and a curragh as well. A curragh may even find a passage to the other continent early. We may want to get another warrior for mp duty as well to help keep the lux slider low.

I usually think its beneficial to get a granary before our first settler. If our exploring warrior finds another high food site close by, it would then be good to get a settler to it before a granary.

What were all the settings for this game? I know its large 70% continents. Were there 11 random opponents? Were barbs set to roaming and ai aggression level to normal? I agree with Overseer though that things will probably happen to change our plans at some point.

 

[Optional]

I would go for writing at max science. We should save 5-6 turns on writing and these could make all the difference on our chances at the republic slingshot.

I'm alright with this, although my personal experience is that the ability to buy a fair number of early slaves (with Writing on min.) means my early empire development is better. I've never gone for the full Republic slingshot on this level, though. How strong is the Republic slingshot on Demigod? I have been in doubt about this, as I've until now always gone for an early war on this level, and so to stay in Despotism until the early Middle Ages (getting Republic through a trade) seemed perfectly fine for me until now.

What were all the settings for this game? I know its large 70% continents. Were there 11 random opponents? Were barbs set to roaming and ai aggression level to normal?

I thought it was a large Pangaea, but looking at post #49, it appears to be a standard size Pangaea. I thought we had agreed on a large one? Other settings, as I read them there: roaming barbs, AI aggression normal. Wet and warm climate. I have no doubt there will be the usual 7 opponants for a standard size map. It's not quite the map settings we had expected. I'm not complaining, but if someone complains, well, that person would have a point.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Alright, thanks. I see the settings now.

We wouldn't be guaranteed the republic sling-shot on demigod with random opponents, but chances are still pretty good starting with alphabet and pottery. Some ai's like to bee-line philosophy first, like the Aztecs, especially if you trade alphabet or writing to them early. Usually, they still go for mathematics, polytheism and map-making first. Some like the Ottomans like to go for Monarchy first. Standard pangaea versus 7 opponents increases our chances a bit as tech costs aren't quite as high as a large map. Even if we don't get it, we should have good techs to trade with.

I'm always for getting rid of the despot penalty asap. I would much rather go to war as a republic than a despot, despite unit costs or potential war-weariness. Corruption and waste in despotism is just awful.

 

[Rodent]

Well, this is Demigod, I believe that we need all the pace we can get, so I favour Writing at max.

Even then, There is a chance the Slingshot will not suceed

 

[Sashie VII]

lurker's comment: Would it be a safer bet to do CoL sling?

 

[anaxagoras]

CoL is not good as a free tech. It is cheap to self-research and has no direct benefits. If it looks like we can't get Republic in the sling, then it is usually best to skip CoL and take Lit as the freebie.

 

[Optional]

CoL is not good as a free tech. It is cheap to self-research and has no direct benefits. If it looks like we can't get Republic in the sling, then it is usually best to skip CoL and take Lit as the freebie.

My own usual approach is, when doing the Philosophy slingshot, to try and trade it for Mathematics on the big picture and then choose Currency as my free tech. Currency is dear, and it always seems to be the last AA tech the AI researches. Literature is cheap, and I'm fighting too much in the early game to afford libraries.
Overseer, is the difficulty level of these starts at least Demigod?

 

[TheOverseer714]

All starts are DG level, so that is a given.

 

[anaxagoras]

My own usual approach is, when doing the Philosophy slingshot, to try and trade it for Mathematics on the big picture and then choose Currency as my free tech.

This is fine with me, too, depending on the situation at the time. The main question for now is whether or not we are trying for Philosophy first, and if so, do we do science at max? I'm gathering our answers are yes, and yes?

Are we aiming for warrior, warrior, curragh, granary, settler? That's building an awful lot before the first settler, given how fast the AI cranks things out at DG. I am not all that familiar with play at this level, though, so if that's what people say they prefer, I'm good with it.

 

[TheOverseer714]

I have played my turns, my actual build order was 3 warriors and then a settler, which needs several more turns to finish. In order to run maximum tech and not use any money for lux rate, I needed 2 mps in London. This will be a more challenging map than I expected, our core area is a bit cramped. In case anyone was worried, this is not an overpowered start. A picture:

Spoiler :

I didn't meet anyone, so we haven't found out where we are tech-wise. I will post the turn-log and the save here while I get the main thread set up. Here is my turn-log, hope I did ok:

Spoiler :

Pre-Flight: CivAssist 2, Word running. Open the save, look things over. Look over our tiles given to us by the great and wondrous MapFinder, declare them good.
Turn 0, 4000 BC: Move the settler East to the Wheat, discovering 1 BG, 2 normal grass and an ocean inlet or a large lake.
Settle London in place, revealing 2 river Plains, another BG and a Sugar on Plains.
Set tech slider to max, Writing in 50 turns.

IBT: nada

Turn 1, 3950 BC: Begin watering the Wheat.

IBT: nada

Turn 2, 3900 BC: nada

IBT: nada

Turn 3, 3850 BC: nada

IBT: nada

Turn 4, 3800 BC: nada

IBT: Worker finishes watering wheat.

Turn 5, 3750 BC: Begin roading wheat.

IBT: First warrior built, I keep him home as an mp.
London Warrior=>Warrior.

Turn 6, 3700 BC: nada

IBT: nada

Turn 7, 3650 BC: nada

IBT: Road finished on Wheat.

Turn 8, 3600 BC: Move worker to river BG.

IBT: London grows.

Turn 9, 3550 BC: Begin mining river BG.

IBT: Cultural expansion reveals mountains and plain to our south, one Wheat on the plains

Turn 10, 3500 BC:

IBT: Another warrior finishes, send him Southeast to explore, start a third as an mp/escort. London Warrior=>Warrior.

Turn 11, 3450 BC: nada

IBT: nada

Turn 12, 3400 BC: nada

IBT: nada

Turn 13, 3350 BC: We are on an ugly little isthmus with mountains south, severely limiting our core.

IBT: London Warrior=>Settler. Worker finishes mining river BG.

Turn 14, 3300 BC: Begin road on river BG.

IBT: nada

Turn 15, 3250 BC: nada

IBT: nada

Turn 16, 3200 BC: nada

IBT: nada

Turn 17, 3150 BC: The more I scout, the worse this map looks. Lots of dry plains

IBT: Finish roading river BG, move worker to another BG.

Turn 18, 3100 BC: Begin mining BG.

IBT: nada

Turn 19, 3050 BC: Warrior meets a barb.

IBT: Warrior redlined by barb.

Turn 20, 3000 BC: Moving Warrior reveals Incense.

Civilian units:
Workers 1

Military units:
Warriors 3

Build(s):
London Settler, 2 turns.

Support:
Units: 4
Allowed: 4
Support cost: 0 gpt

Contacts7
none yet.

Research
Writing, 20 turns at break even.

Sliders
10/0/0, 10 gold, break even

The save:

 

[Northen Wolf]

I got out of hospital and got myself laptop, now Am trying to install civ3 onto laptop.

So I'm not dead just w.o. civ 3 acess.

I don't think we should settle North (and NE). I thin we should settle southwards, as we are located in the corner of map, settling towards area where there is higher % to meet more AI's. Therefor grab more area before AI outgrabs us.

And is'nt 20 turns bit much?

 

[Optional]

Northen, go to 'Brits in Space'; this brainstorm thread thread is now obsolete!