Sgotm 01 - C D Z

[Samson]

I endded up as the 1st turn player for CDZ. Being epic my only real responsability was exploring.

We had already decided to settle on the plains hill, and to go for pottery first.

4000 BC. Move settler to hill, warrior NE to get a view of the coast. Fish spotted.
3970 BC. Settle Thebes, start on worker and pottery. Warrior Heads NW (Cannot go further east, no point going all the way south).
3880 BC. Warrior gets to the sea NW of Thebes. Decides to go NE through hils.
3730 BC. Mapped all land to north east. Warrior heads down South West.
Sometime around here get pottery, start on mining.
3430 BC (turn 641). Meet Cathrine at choke point to south west. Finish worker. Hand game over without moving anything.

Piccys;

www.geocities.com/hughmorgan72/Civ4ScreenShot0020.JPG
www.geocities.com/hughmorgan72/Civ4ScreenShot0021.JPG

first image tags changed to img tags. The others don't want to display - suggest you put them where that can be linked as images - AlanH

 

[AlanH]

3430 BC (turn 641). Meet Cathrine at choke point to south west. Finish worker. Hand game over without moving anything.

Counting backwards, I assume

 

[grahamiam]

Preflight check:BW due in 6T, worker due in 6T as well

IBT:borders expand

T1: 2830 BC worker moves N to plains hill. I thought about NE to the grass hill so I could road it and allow easy access to the cow when we need it, but decided that we would probably come back to the plains hill to mine it and this may save a step for the workers.
Warrior SE, sees a panther at the choke.

IBT:panther disappears to the S

T2: 2800 BCroad the plains hill (due in 3T, BW/Worker due in 4T). Warrior N

IBT: Hinduism founded somewhere else

T3: 2770 BCWarrior S, sees panther again.

IBT:Looks like Catherine founding Hinduism as she converts.

T4: 2740 BC nada

IBT:road connects the rice

T6: 2710 BCMove worker W to grass-forest

IBT:BW (revolt) -> AH(14T); worker finishes -> settler (21T)

T7: 2680 BCFind copper over by the choke. Worker in forest begins to chop. New worker moves N to river grass to chop.

IBT:

T8: 2650 BC worker begins chopping

IBT:Catherine settles a town down near the choke.

T9: 2620 BCnada

IBT:

T10: 2590 BCnada. Warrior to the W is moving hill-to-hill to reveal tiles and keep the barbs away. Chops are due in 2T and 3T, respectively. I strongly suggest we settle to the W near the copper.

Pics below.

 

[Samson]

2590 - Alls well.

2560 - Warior S, 1 forest done

2530 - Warior SE, not good, leaves loads more fog. Worker N.

2500 - Warior NW, Worker start chop, other worker W. Forest grows NE of 3.

IBT - Welthiest Civs, Cathy 3, Hayua 4, CDZ 7.

2470 - Warior N, Worker start chop.

2440 - Warior S

2410 - Warior N,

2380 - Warior S, forest chopped

2350 - Settler finished. 20 overflow, so started on Settler. Barb warior appears in south. I reakon I can handle it, so move settler + worker towards 1. Forest chopped. Warior moved towards Barb.

2320 - Settler + worker still on route, warior onto forested hill next to barb. Thebes changed to warior. Worker onto last forest.

IBT - Wariour kills barb warior, 1.1 health, 2 exp.

2290 - Settler + worker still on route, warior towards 1. Worker started chop then canceled. This I do every turn so I do not forget to change build to settler.

 

[AlanH]

We seem to have lost 600 years somewhere, guys. Please can you make sure you keep this thread up to date?

 

[bed_head7]

2290 BC (0) - No changes or anything to make pre-turn.

IT - Animal Husbandry learned. Since we are discussing pyramids, go for masonry.

2260 BC (1) - Settle Memphis on the desert west of the copper. Begin a settler.

2020 BC (9) - Warrior finishes, start the settler (no hammers were lost towards the settler).

And that was it, save for some worker moves. I started roading the cow, by accident, as I forgot it would already be hooked up via the river (cost of my not having played much). Had a screenshot, but then copied text over it by accident.

 

[grahamiam]

I apologize to the lurkers. We are trying to get everyone to post turnlogs but some have access issues (ie, they have internet access at work but CFC is blocked, while CDZ isn't). I'll try to update this as soon as possible.

 

[grahamiam]

see below for this turnset (after the update from CDZ site)

 

[grahamiam]

I'll be posting things over the next few days to fill in the gap between that last turnset and bedhead's.

 

[grahamiam]

Originally posted by Samson on May 15th
[br]2590 - Alls well.

2560 - Warior S, 1 forest done

2530 - Warior SE, not good, leaves loads more fog. Worker N.

2500 - Warior NW, Worker start chop, other worker W. Forest grows NE of 3.

IBT - Welthiest Civs, Cathy 3, Hayua 4, CDZ 7.

2470 - Warior N, Worker start chop.

2440 - Warior S

2410 - Warior N,

2380 - Warior S, forest chopped

2350 - Settler finished. 20 overflow, so started on Settler. Barb warior appears in south. I reakon I can handle it, so move settler + worker towards 1. Forest chopped. Warior moved towards Barb.

2320 - Settler + worker still on route, warior onto forested hill next to barb. Thebes changed to warior. Worker onto last forest.

IBT - Wariour kills barb warior, 1.1 health, 2 exp.

2290 - Settler + worker still on route, warior towards 1. Worker started chop then canceled. This I do every turn so I do not forget to change build to settler.

No screen shot as nothing new to see (just a few less forests).

Save at http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/CDZ_SG001_BC2290_01.Civ4SavedGame.

[EDIT] Thought I would add some points;

I think a mine on grassland gives fewer hammers than on on a hill. I think a mined grassland copper will only be 3 hammers.
You can mine a stone hill and get loads of hammers. I think it is the same as a quarryed one, but no commerce. Of course it is a waste of worker turns, but ofen worth it if you are not going to be getting masonarry any time soon.

Talking of which, are we going for the pyramids?

 

[grahamiam]

Originally posted by Beam on May 15

Nice play!

I checked copper on grass in another sav and there it gives 2f4h when mined (actually in 4OTM2, Lizzy. Playing this for practising). Hard to form a sound opinion about a Pyr run. If build it is extremely powerful but I have no experience how eager the AI is.

bed-head is up (he posted earlier he can play today), I'm on deck.

I made a seperate city placement thread in this forum btw.

Edit:

The worker is 2/2 xp now, I would normally go for Woodman but I guess this warrior isn't going to see a lot of wood in that desert tile. Go for the 10% strength?

 

[grahamiam]

All of the following were posted on May 16th, 2006

Originally posted by bed_head7
[br]I have it. I probably won't play today, so if people have opinions/advice, go for it. I don't see any big questions except for the pyramid thing.

Originally posted by socralynnek
[br]Hmm...we have stone, so we could give it a try. Although I would rather like to see an Oracle slingshot. I guess, Oracle and Pyr is unlikely.

If we try and fail we at least get a lot of money for our research.

Originally posted by Samson
[br]One thing you need to be sure of is that we do not loose any hammers that have been put into the settler while the warior is finishing. The warior is 11 turns IIRC? That may well be enough to start losing hammers, but I have no idea how it works. Anyone know?

What to build in the new city? I would vote for settler.

Which tile to improve around Thebes? I guess it has to be the cows.

What to name the new city? No naming strategy has been sugested so far, and I guess it should not be too profane as we must post at CFC.

The pyramids with stone takes 50% more hammers than the oracle without marble. The AI normally gets it long after the oracle, so it is probably less risky. I would guess the winning team will get both, but perhaps the hammers would be better put into an army. I do not know.

Originally posted by grahamiam
[br]well, we've already chopped 3 forests for settlers. We have 2 more immediate forests and then we get diminishing returns from the rest. That is, if we decide to build it in the capitol. I guess we could try for the oracle in the Northern town of BurgerKing (or whatever Beam nicknamed it). It could have a 3 forests for chopping both the Oracle and the Pyramids and since it's going to be a GP town, it'll fit nicely with what it's doing.

Originally posted by Beam
Still no bed_head. Shall I play tomorrow if he hasn't and put him on deck as next player?

 

[grahamiam]

All posted on May 17th, 2006

Originally posted by bed_head7
[br]I posted my "got it" three above yours. Should be able to finish tonight. Will at least be starting soon.

Originally posted by bed_head7
[br]http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/CDZ_SG001_BC1990_01.Civ4SavedGame

2290 BC (0) - No changes or anything to make pre-turn.

IT - Animal Husbandry learned. Since we are discussing pyramids, go for masonry.

2260 BC (1) - Settle Memphis on the desert west of the copper. Begin a settler.

2020 BC (9) - Warrior finishes, start the settler (no hammers were lost towards the settler).

And that was it, save for some worker moves. I started roading the cow, by accident, as I forgot it would already be hooked up via the river (cost of my not having played much). I took a screenshot, but then accidentally copied text over it. Sorry. Anyway, there is a barb just outside of Thebes' borders, and the warrior we just built is in the tile next to it, in the forest.

Originally posted by Shabbaman
[br]I thought we were going with writing?

Originally posted by Samson
[br]Samson
bedhead -> just played
Beam -> UP
barbu
Shabbaman
grahamiam
socralynnek

I would much rather have writing than masonary, but we only have 3 turns left on it so I guess we have to finish it.

Any big questions? Next tech could be writing, or it could be fishing so we can use the clams and the fish at burger king. No great urgency though I guess.

[EDIT] I thought I had better say that it is not usually worth chopping tundra forest not on a river, as you cannot build anything on that tile.

Originally posted by Beam
[br]We need fishing once we get health issues which there aren't any atm.

In my turn the settler finishes, I plan to start another warrior.

Settler > Burger King plains.

Masonry > Writing.

Originally posted by grahamiam
[br]writing is fine, just hold of on the open border demand from Cathy. I agree also with going for Burger King and another warrior. Hopefully, with BurgerKing, we can eliminate most of the barb spawn locations on our corner, and can freely settle Westside as well as the FP cities.

Originally posted by Shabbaman
[br]Perhaps we should designate which forests we chop and which we don't.

Originally posted by Beam
[br]1990BC - All looks fine

IT - Barb Warrior attacks warrior on forest. 2 > 1.7 . 1 xp.

1960BC - Warrior starts healing 2 turns. Worker start 2nd cottage near the cap

1930BC - [sleep]

1900BC - [sleep]

1870BC - Stonehenge build in a far away land

1840BC - [sleep]

1810BC - Cathy offers Open Borders. Accepted as I think it is best to have some sort of relationship initially.

1780BC - Warrior is bit scouting N to keep it free of barbs.

1750BC - Settler completes in Thebes, moves to Burger King. Thebes starts Warrior in 3 and will grow in 5.

1720BC - Cottage completed, worker moves N to work Burger King. Worker W has completed the cow and starts a road towards Thebes.

1690BC - Burger King found, starts worker. Warrior scouts N and E to prevent barbs.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/CDZ_SG001_BC1690_01.Civ4SavedGame

Originally posted by grahamiam
[br]

1810BC - Cathy offers Open Borders. Accepted as I think it is best to have some sort of relationship initially.

I take that to mean she beat us to Writing? Also, with her having open borders with us, we need to take a hard look at the map and see were we must settle next, before she grabs our spot.

Originally posted by Shabbaman
[br]We can cancel the open border in 10 turns again, right? I'm not really happy with it tbh, though I get beam's train of thought.

Originally posted by Beam
[br]gram, she had Writing well before us. This reduces the chances on an Oracle run imo.

Maybe I had better not agreed Open Borders. It can be cancelled in 6 turns.

Originally posted by Samson
[br]

Originally posted by Beam
1810BC - Cathy offers Open Borders. Accepted as I think it is best to have some sort of relationship initially.

A bit risky. I think there is every chance she could try and sneek in a city, probably near sweet spot. I think we3 should cancl this soon. It would be nice to get a warior passed the choke point first though, to meet other civs.

Originally posted by Beam
[br]

Originally posted by Samson
[br]

Originally posted by Beam
1810BC - Cathy offers Open Borders. Accepted as I think it is best to have some sort of relationship initially.

A bit risky. I think there is every chance she could try and sneek in a city, probably near sweet spot. I think we3 should cancl this soon. It would be nice to get a warior passed the choke point first though, to meet other civs.

Indeed, send the Memphis(?) warrior into Russia and cancel after 6 turns. This will provide a lot of good info!

 

[grahamiam]

All posted on May 17th, 2006 (Cont’d)

Originally posted by Beam
[br]The scoregraph (for what it is worth):

[br] 89.96 KB[/size=1]

We are a bit low in score but for example higher than Rat Pack in this year who passed another team who had a much higher score in this year. Team one lost 7 points, not sure what can cause this. Loss of a tile, unit or even a city?

Originally posted by Samson
[br]

Originally posted by Beam
Indeed, send the Memphis(?) warrior into Russia and cancel after 6 turns. This will provide a lot of good info!

The big thing is not so much info as contact with other civs helps our tech progress.

Is barbu too busy this week? If so, Shabbaman is up.
http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3579&REPLY_ID=73679
[EDIT] I du no how to link to a single post, Page 2 Post 10.

Originally posted by Shabbaman
[br]I can play tonight, somewhere after dinner and before the champion's league final. Instrrructions?

Originally posted by barbu1977
[br]I certainly am. I'm off canoeing for 3 days on the weekend and it takes a bit of preparation.

Originally posted by Samson
[br]

Originally posted by Shabbaman
[br]I can play tonight, somewhere after dinner and before the champion's league final. Instrrructions?

It is very important to get a warior past the choke point before you cancel the open borders.
We need to think about getting the pyramids started (if we are going for it), and where. I would say the second city (Memphis?). It has lots of spare happiness to grow for a while, and plains hills to use up food once it gets close to its happiness limit. We could build it in Burgerking if that is going to be our GP city. It has very little production though. Probably want the stone improved and the road finished first.
I would improve a cow before starting to chop for Burgerking.

Originally posted by grahamiam
[br]Memphis (Coppertown?_is our choke town and should have good production with copper and possibly a cow. imho, it should a rax and then units, not a wonder. Burgerking would be ideal for the Pyramids, but it started a worker so it won't grow for a while. With the 2 cows, it should be able to do 6hpt. Pyramids costs 450h on Normal, so it will take a long time even with stone, but if we improve the cows and work the forests, it may be reasonable. I would propose changing the worker to a granery or going straight for Pyramids. Beam has sent our capitol worker N to the town, so it can get the cows improved quickly.

Originally posted by Beam
[br]Burger King has been found my last turn so it can still change to Pyramids without losing a turn. It is better site for it because we can chop there. So the worker can pasture the plains cow, move and quarry the stone, then do chopping and tile working around Burger King. Imo Memphis (rename to Copperfield) should be a military city with Rax spamming Axes.

@gram: Thebes indeed is working rice, cow and cottage. A 2nd cottage is build and imo it should grow to 4 to work it.

I started a new topic about General Strategy, most of it assuming we are on an island with Cathy. Comments / contributions appreciated!

About the Open Borders: it is risky as long as it can't be cancelled. Once it can we can leave it and cancel if Cathy moves a settler in our direction.

Originally posted by grahamiam
[br]ok, no problem. We've had 2 turnsets in a row without pics of our lands, so it was a little hard for me to visualize how big Thebes has become.

Originally posted by Beam
[br]Sorry about that, here our empire.

[br] 145.94 KB[/size=1]

Originally posted by grahamiam[/i]
[br]oh, goodie, clams for Coppertown! That city can work 3 mined plains hills now []

edit: no horses? crap

Originally posted by Beam
[br]

edit: no horses? crap

edit: no horses? crap

Horsies near Burger King [charge]

Originally posted by Shabbaman
[br]Playing now.

1690 b.c. changed Burger king to building pyramids. Currently using the cow. Undecided whether I'll work the cow the worker is standing on first or if I should connect the stone asap. Sent the warrior from Copperfield into Russia, warrior from capital towards Copperfield (1 turn 'till new warrior).

1660 b.c. Thebes build a warrior, started on another. After this one my guess is a library. Started building bbq's on the cow near burgerville.

1630 b.c. Nothing.

1600 b.c. Thebes grows to size 4, working the second cottage now. Science to 100% for 1 turn to get writing next turn.

1570 b.c. Got writing, thinking about what to research next. Decided on mysticism, for the Oracle. Due in 6 turns.

1540 b.c. Someone founded judaism. Copperfield finished settler, currently building barracks...
Thebes building a library.

1510 b.c. Founded Westbank, building worker. Copperfield now working cow (for growth). Building quarry.

In the interturn, our scouting warrior defeated a barbarian warrior.

1480 b.c. Moved scouting warrior outside Russian territory (in case of cancelling the open borders), letting it heal since it's down to 0.1. Burger king pasture is ready, building another one. Should be down in 6, BK grows in 6.

1450 b.c. BK's border expand. Set science to 80% to break even at 0 gold. Thebes grows again, now getting the hammers of the stone. Should build more cottages and connect the cow, since there's filth there...

1420 b.c. Crap, oracle has been build! IMO this means switch to fishing after getting mysticism.

Well, that's it. Match has been busy for 15 minutes, perhaps I'll post screenies during the rest.

Save is here: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/CDZ_SG001_BC1420_01.Civ4SavedGame

 

[grahamiam]

All posted on May 17th, 2006 (Cont’d)

Originally posted by Beam
[br]

Undecided whether I'll work the cow the worker is standing on first or if I should connect the stone asap.

I suggest to start with the cow on the plains as it will make Burger King both grow and productive.

Originally posted by Shabbaman
[br]After writing it's mysticism>meditation>priesthood I guess?

Originally posted by Beam
[br]That's the path to CoL isn't it?

Originally posted by grahamiam
[br]whatever we can do to make CoL cheaper, because that's going to be the tech we need to start expanding. We can go Math, Currency, CoL which would be fine as well, especially since we are not religous and we could use the extra shields from the chopped forests for the Pyramids. Actually, I think Math next would be better, but Math is more expensive than Myst+Med+Priesthood

Originally posted by grahamiam
[br]Samson
bedhead
Beam
barbu
Shabbaman -> just played
grahamiam -> UP
socralynnek -> on deck

I'll play and post tonight or tomorrow, once we decide on which path to CoL we want to research.

Originally posted by Beam
[br]Fishing would be the tech since Theebs [lol] is not the most healthy place on the planet but there isn't a city where workboats can be build soon. The worker from Westbank is badly needed and also is the optimal city for workboats. Techpaths imo should cover both Fishing > Sailing and on to CoL.

Lots of jungle in Russia and still no other AI. And sea on the S of what looks like a Russian pen to me.

 

[grahamiam]

All posted on May 18th, 2006 (Cont’d)

Originally posted by Shabbaman
[br]You all read that someone already build the Oracle, right?

Originally posted by socralynnek
[br]Yeah, that's bad, you are right, we should go after fishing to get those clams.

Still I'd go for CoL for Courthouses and the religion.

Originally posted by Samson
[br]I took some screen shots.

Looks good, score is booming and up into the middle of the pack.

The pyramids are a bit of a worry if they already have done the oricle. The question is do we chop the 2 tundra forests? They are the only "improvement" that we can have on tundra, but they are likely to give us about 6 turns on the pyramids. I normally would never chop them, but it is very important we get the pyramids so we could do it. Not until they are nearly built though, same for the plains forests (we are likely to need them for production).

Do we want any graneries? I normally build them ASAP, I would prioritize them above war on Cathy.

Worker turns seem a bit of a priority, we should think carfully about what we improve.

Fishing is important now, I reakon that has to be the next tech.

[br] 134.07 KB[/size=1]

[br] 77.15 KB[/size=1]

Originally posted by Shabbaman
[br]Question.

We get a production bonus on the pyramids from stone. Does it matter then if we chop before or after we've hooked up the stone?

Originally posted by socralynnek
[br]Yes, that matters, we have to hook them up before chopping IIRC.

Originally posted by Samson
[br]

Originally posted by grahamiam
Question: I know rivers and roads connect cities, but if I build a road on the stone and then 1T E or NE, and also build a road on the 2 cows near BurgerKing, with BK be connected thru the lake?

I am fairly sure that it will not, you need something to conect a road to a coast (a city or a river). I am certain it will not before sailing.

Originally posted by grahamiam
[br]ok, in that case, I'll road the Stone, then road NE towards BurgerKing, thru the forest. So, the stone worker will build a quarry, then road, move/road, then road towards BurgerKing, either N or NE. Other worker finishes the pasture, then moves S or SE to the forest to begin roading.

I also want to chop the 2 forests S of Burgerking (grass and plains) but leave the tundra forest intact.

Originally posted by Samson
[br]

Originally posted by grahamiam
I also want to chop the 2 forests S of Burgerking (grass and plains) but leave the tundra forest intact.

We only have 5 good tiles for burgerking to work if we remove the forests. We may want to leave 1 or 2 until the pyramids are almost done so it can work them. Also if we are going to be beaten to the pyramids I would like to use those forests for something else.

Ie. I would leave the forests for now.

Originally posted by socralynnek
[br]Yes, better leave the tundra forests intact as long as possible. Maybe only to get the Pyramids done in the same turn.

Originally posted by grahamiam
[br]re: research

Fishing is cheap and should be done during my turnset. What do we want to do after that? Continue on towards CoL? If so, how? Via Math/Currency or Priesthood?

Also, after the Library in Theebs, I'd like to build another settler for a FP city. A FP cottage spam town will get our economy going quite well.

Originally posted by socralynnek
[br]Math increases chop yield, currency allows for cash trades, so those are the more valuable but expensive techs.

Originally posted by Shabbaman
[br]Aside from getting to CoL fast, the priesthood path isn't worth as much as currency/math. I'd say math.

Originally posted by grahamiam
[br]Well, regarding the hpt vs chopping in BurgerKing, we'll be doing the following:
+1 hpt CC
+2 for grass cow (pasturized)
+3 for plains cow (pasturized)
+2 for grass horse (pasturized)

So thats +8hpt without the forests. Add the grass forest and the plains forest, and we have +3 more, or 11hpt, while also doing +4fpt. I would like to chop the grass forest, as it'll only give us +1hpt, but the shields from the chop will be more than 30 turns worth of work. Also, at size 5. we could work a mined plains hill for +14hpt, but it would slow our growth to +2fpt. After the pyramids, we can work the netted fish instead of the plains hill to get the town growing again.

Originally posted by Beam
[br]Just checked the sav:
- Maths (30t) is a prereq for Currency so there is not really a choice between the 2 unless there is an alternate path.
- Fishing is 6t, Sailing 14t
- Meditation (12t) > Priesthood (9t)

There isn't a lot of usefull stuff in the religious path unless converted to a religion.

Nice thing about Maths is indeed better chopping to the Pyr but it will be 30 turns (minus couple of turns because of growth and lib) before it is available. Pyr is still 168 turns, in 4 turns BK will grow and the pasture ready so 50% more shields. 168 - 4 = 164 * 2/3 is about 105 turns. The quarry will take about 11 turns to be connected if both workers are dedicated to roading and quarrying. So in 11 turns the Pyr is (105-11)/2 = 47 turns away. In 15 turns add another hammer to BK, Pyr = 43 * 6 / 7 = 36 turns. So if my calcs are correct Pyr is 36 + 15 = 51 turns without chopping from now. Actually a bit faster because BK can grow more so make that 45 or so.

With current beakers Fishing + Maths is 6 + 30 = 36 turns, add 20% (???) increase in beakers during those turns makes it about 29 turns. Which leaves about 16 turns for enhanced chopping. Ball park figure.

Edit: forgot the pastured horse mentioned by gram. I'll see if I can put it in a spreadsheet. How much is a standard chop again?

Originally posted by grahamiam
[br]i'll try to search CFC for the chop values. They were nerfed in 1.61f, but I forget the differences between epic and normal

Originally posted by grahamiam
[br]ok, on epic, forest = 20 * 1.5 = 30 hammers. Once we get math and stone, the forest will = 2 * (30*1.5) = 90 hammers

Originally posted by Beam
[br]More or less got it. First key assumptions for growth and resulting hammers:
- Atm 4 hammers
- In 4 turns growth and +2 hammers from the cow
- In 11 turns access to marble half the shields required (in the spreadsheet I doubled production)
- In 12 turns growth and +3 hammers from the horse (checked both the pedia and a testgame with the same parameters)
- In 21 turns growth and +2 hammers from the forest on plains (the forest on grass could also be used but growing to 5 doesn't add significant shields in the process).

Pyr requires 675 without Marble and 24 are already acquired. Don't want to chop the tundra forest. I checked the same testgame and a chop there gives 54 hammers, so 2 chops brings 108 hammers.

Result if we complete 2 chops when Maths is available Pyr is 31 turns away. Since I assume chops started before Math still give +50% when completed with Math chopping should start no later than 26 turns from now.

Without Maths the same process takes 34 turns.

Also assuming we get about 20% increase in beakers during the process it looks like we can go Fishing > Maths and have improved chopping in time for the Pyr. []

Edit:Need to make a correction. Both workers are needed to connect the stone in 11 turns which means the pasture on the horse can't be completed in 12 turns. This delays the whole thing by 1 or 2 turns but doesn't change the overall picture.

Originally posted by grahamiam
[br]by growing to 5, we could work a mined hill, right?

Originally posted by Beam
[br]We could but growth from 4 to 5 would take about 10 turns so about the time the Pyr is completed thus losing an extra shield for 10 turns. We also could work a mined hill when BK grows to size 4. Assuming we discover Maths in time the whole process takes 29 (plus 1 or 2 because of the delayed horse pasture) turns with the mined hill according to the spreadsheet.

 

[grahamiam]

All posted on May 18th, 2006 (Cont’d)

Originally posted by Shabbaman
[br]BTW, I just wanted to mention in advance that I'm away from friday afternoon until sometimes sunday evening.

Originally posted by grahamiam
[br]guys, we really need to post turnlogs over at CFC. Please remember to do it.

 

[grahamiam]

Preflight check:Looks good. Move the Northern warrior 1T W to reveal more tiles. Pasture done in 4T, quarry in 6T, Myst in 1T

IBT: Myst -> Fishing (6T). Pyramids completed in a far away land [lol]

T1: 1390 BC Well, that ends the Pyramids discussion! Exploring Warrior moves NE, finds another Russian town with archers.

IBT:BurgerKing starts a granary (22T), we gain 28g

T2: 1360 BC Exploring Warrior N. Crank up research to 100% (-7gpt) to get Fishing in 3T vs 5T)

IBT:

T3: 1330 BC Exploring Warrior NW.

IBT:

T4: 1300 BC Pasture on cow is done. No rush for the stone, so road go ahead and pasture the horse. Misclick causes us to lose one turn []

IBT: Fishing -> Sailing. Without the need for high shield chops, we could use the lighthouse build to get us extra food.
Borders of Westbank expand.

T6: 1270 BC BurgerKing is switched to a workboat. Worker moves to the horse and begins a pasture (6T)

IBT:Quarry is completed

T7: 1240 BC Road the quarry

IBT:

T8: 1210 BC Exploring warrior is back on the West side of Russia. It should heal but that will take 10T, so I keep him moving.

IBT:

T9: 1180 BC Exploring Warrior finds a sliver of land

IBT:

T10: 1150 BC Sliver of land is nothing. However, there is coastal tiles connecting to another landmass on the West side of Russia.
Worker finishes roading the quarry, runs to Westside's beef. Next player can lay down the pasture.
Thebes can be MM'd to grow next turn if desired.

Samson -> on deck
bedhead
Beam
barbu
Shabbaman
grahamiam
socralynnek -> UP

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/CDZ_SG001_BC1150_01.Civ4SavedGame

 

[grahamiam]

General Strategy
Printed from: Civ3 Duel Zone
Topic URL: http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3599
Printed on: 19 May 2006

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Topic author: Beam
Subject: General Strategy
Posted on: 17 May 2006 16:21:08
Message:


A bit of thinking about the general direction of this game as we are in 1690 BC.

I get the feel we are on an island / continent with Cathy. Since the AI in the early game is very eager with Open Borders we should see a unit of another AI appearing soon if there is another one on this island. If not Cathy might be our only trading partner for quite a while.

There is enough terrain for 8 cities and the more cities in an empire the higher the maintenance costs. So there is not a lot of benefit short term in conquering Russian cities.

In other words it might be better to leave Cathy alive for a while. If she declares the choke point is the one to be defended and with a stack of Axes should not be much of an issue.

If indeed jsut Cathy is on our continent we should soon find out if other continents can be reached with Gallies or if we need to go all the way to Optics / Astronomy. In the latter case we are safe from the Inca for a long time. In the first case other AI can be encountered soon after Sailing. For this reason we might consider Fishing > Sailing soon unless we want to go for the Oracle which is an entirely different tech path.

If we want a good trading relationship with Cathy a consideration is to adopt Hinduism if it is spread, one of the best guarantees for trading with an AI. We share a trait which also helps iirc.

My 2 cents.

Replies:



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Reply author: grahamiam
Replied on: 17 May 2006 16:44:19
Message:

Egypt has a cheap and good UU, the War Chariot. At 5 strength, it's still 40% cheaper than Axes, and can ram thru Archers and warriors when built in mass quantities. imho, it really depends on how much land Cathy has as to whether or not we can co-exist.

However, expanding into Cathy before courthouses will be tough and will probably send our research to the toilet


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Reply author: socralynnek
Replied on: 18 May 2006 10:57:02
Message:

I believe that there is another civ on the eastern part of our continent which we can't reach with units via land but there we could send a boat to make contact (or settle if no one is there)

With our UU, it might be a nice idea to conquer Russia.

The problem is that the AI doesn't trade a tech where it thinks it has a monopoly, so trading techs with Cathy might not be possible.


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Reply author: grahamiam
Replied on: 18 May 2006 15:09:39
Message:

The VC's in this game are domination or diplomatic. Either way, Cathy has to go as we need the land for either land % or a larger voting block.


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Reply author: Shabbaman
Replied on: 18 May 2006 15:14:48
Message:

If we capture Russia, we get hinduism. Could be nice in the end.


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Reply author: Beam
Replied on: 18 May 2006 15:31:07
Message:

No doubt Cathy has to go. If we do it to early there will be a lot of corruption and hardly a benefit. Both Diplo and Domination will take quite a while so Cathies execution can be timed as we like.

@Shabba, I was hoping Cathy will spread Hinduism so we have an option to convert.

I checked the FP and it requires 6 courthouses and 8 cities. Without saying to wait that long those prereqs can be achieved with our current territory.


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Reply author: grahamiam
Replied on: 18 May 2006 15:38:08
Message:

Well, the FP can be built down in Russia (or some other place). It does drive down maintence costs for cities nearby pretty substantially, especially when coupled with a courthouse.

However, waiting too long is no good. We can go after Cathy before we have 6 courts. In fact, all the new courts could be built in captured cities, while our core builds other things and only starts building courts when the empire size maintenance starts becoming too high.


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Reply author: Shabbaman
Replied on: 18 May 2006 15:47:43
Message:

@beam: actually, I was referring that comes to the nice gpt bonus that comes from the holy city.



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[grahamiam]

City Placement

Printed from: Civ3 Duel Zone
Topic URL: http://www.civ3duelzone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3592
Printed on: 19 May 2006

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Topic author: Beam
Subject: City Placement
Posted on: 15 May 2006 15:19:37
Message:


Thread to discuss, eh.... City Placement. Discussion started here post 28. Pic of our piece of heaven.

- Westside. Founded.
- Copperfield. Founded.
- Burger King. Founded.
- Sweet Spot. To be discussed.
- Clam Chowder. To be discussed. Plains: fresh water but overlap. Grass: little overlap and trade from water but no fw.
- Fish 'n Chips. To be discussed.
- Riverside. To be discussed.
- Silverado to be discussed.

Replies:



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Reply author: grahamiam
Replied on: 15 May 2006 15:52:54
Message:

just my 2cents (and just as worthless)

Copperfield will be a good spot. cow = 4f, 2h, copper = 2f, 4h. working both of these plus CC will give us +4fpt and +7hpt, which will be alright for spitting out early units and settlers. However, it will only be able to work 2 plains hills before running out of food, so it will max out at 15hpt. Growth beyond size 4 will require a lighthouse and coastal tile working. I think this should be our early unit pump, which is good as we'll be going right into Cathy

Burger King will be another good spot. fish = 5fpt with net + lighthouse, grass cow = 4f, 2h, plains cow = 3f, 3h (or is it 4f, 3h due to being on fresh water?), lake = 3f with lighthouse. I think this city should be a GP farm. So much food it just seems like that's the best thing for it.

Thebes is probably the best research/commerce spot we will have. Riverside, Fish'n'Chips, & ClamChowder will also spit out massive volumes of beakers once the cottages are up.

Westside can support Copperfield with unit building. In fact, this one has a lot of potential. Imho, those river grasses should be irrigated so we can work as many hill tiles as possible.

Imho, Sugarland and Silverado can be gotten after the others. But maybe not, if we need luxes to get the GP factory up and running?


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Reply author: Samson
Replied on: 17 May 2006 13:49:47
Message:

Next city? I reakon it has to be burger king, on the plains tile 2 east of the fish. The other options are the plains tile N of the north cow (misses the fish, gets more hills, no overlap) or the grassland forest tile SW of north cow (fresh water, big overlap with thebes, loose a forest).



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Reply author: Beam
Replied on: 17 May 2006 13:58:37
Message:

I am really in favor of settling on the plains, good balance.


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Reply author: Shabbaman
Replied on: 17 May 2006 14:07:07
Message:

The plains on the coast, so we can grab the fish? Aye!


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Reply author: Darkness
Replied on: 17 May 2006 16:10:16
Message:

IMHO you should found Copperfield first...
You need to block off the chokepoint with Cathy (and fast, 'cause IME the AI tends to settle quite aggressively towards the human player in Civ4 (more so than in Civ3, IMHO)), and that needs to be done as fast as possible. Cathy is creative so her cities have 2 cpt immediately, which means the longer you wait the further Cathy's borders will have moved towards the copper, reducing your chances to get it (and then you wont be able to build spearmen). You do not yet know if you will have horses or iron, so can you risk losing the copper?


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Reply author: Beam
Replied on: 17 May 2006 17:37:56
Message:

Next city will be Westside?


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Reply author: socralynnek
Replied on: 18 May 2006 10:47:59
Message:

I second that, with the cow it can grow fast and be helpful from the beginning.

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Reply author: Samson
Replied on: 19 May 2006 14:30:47
Message:
I have mad a sort of dot map, I only have paint so it is a bit ****.

Fish and chips (red) The hill (I) is on the river, and we will need health with all thouse flood plains. The desert (II) gives us another hill, and fewer flood plains to give us unhealthiness. We would have to put Clam Choder on II. I reakon the hill (II).

Riverside (blue) The desert (I) gives us much more tiles to use, but is not on fresh water and losses us a plains hill. Less overlap. I reakon the desert (I).

Sweet spot (green) I overlaps thebes by the rice tile, uses a lot of land tiles that would otherwise be unused. II has no overlap but only has 7 land tiles. III is on the suger so we would not get the bonus food and commerce. IV is on a plains hill and overlaps Copperfeild by 1 tile. I reakon I or IV.

Clam Chowder decribed by Beam; "Plains(I): fresh water but overlap. Grass(II): little overlap and trade from water but no fw.". I reakon II.

Order, Fish + Chips, then sweet spot or riverside.

[br] 139.93 KB[/size=1]
[/quote]

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Reply author: grahamiam
Replied on: 19 May 2006 15:00:38
Message:
Nice work Samson
quote:
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I reakon the hill (II).
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Re: FishNChips: You mean the desert (II) or the desert hill (I)?
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Reply author: Samson
Replied on: 19 May 2006 15:14:41
Message:
quote:
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Originally posted by grahamiam

Nice work Samson


quote:
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I reakon the hill (II).
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Re: FishNChips: You mean the desert (II) or the desert hill (I)?
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Opps, I meant the desert hill (I).
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Reply author: Beam
Replied on: 19 May 2006 15:38:18
Message:
Pondering between the desert hill and the desert. From the hill 9 fp are covered resulting in 3.6 unhealthiness, rounded up to 4 I guess? From the desert 6 fp are covered giving 2.4 rounded down to 2. Since there is enough food the 2 hills can be mined giving 6 shields.

If the team wants to settle on the hill no objection btw.
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Reply author: grahamiam
Replied on: 19 May 2006 15:52:32
Message:
CC, 1 mined plains hill + 1 mined desert hill = 8hpt.

CC on desert hill + 1 mined plains hill = 5 or 6hpt.

Difference is as follows:
Library = 90 * 1.5 = 135 hammers, 17turns on the desert, 23 turns on the desert hill (assumes we get 2h from CC, but I'm pretty sure it's only 1, or 27 turns)
Market = 150 * 1.5 = 225 hammers, which breaks down as 29, 38, 45.

Either way, turns to build are very long and we might be better off with the +2 health from the river and just pop rushing the Library and Market.

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Reply author: Beam
Replied on: 21 May 2006 23:41:43
Message:

610BC: Theebs will complete a settler in one turn. Imo the two most interesting settling areas are Sweet Spot and Riverside. Imo Sweet Spot cause it closes the gap to Cathy and over time offers Sugar while Riverside is very similar to Fish 'n Chips which still requires a lot of worker effort to make something out of it.

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Reply author: bed_head7
Replied on: 23 May 2006 03:04:00
Message:

I like Sweet Spot as well. Will probably settle there unless anyone objects.

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