Sgotm 01 - C F R

[Ptitsa Consul]

One more question for Dynamic - Why we have 80% of science?
By 100% we shell have -14GPT (our gold treasure is 197 coins), but we shell have 22 beakers (110, and 88 now) - 12 (not 15) turns for Machinery?

Is that fact wise tactic or only result of oblivion. I plan to increase research to 100% - we lost ~160 coins, but it is good cost for science.

 

[Ptitsa Consul]

I do it
Turns' counter in my mind is wrong - I make only 9 turns

(0) 130BC - First of all I increase research to 100% - 12 turns for Machinery and make some MM. Free worker I send to Rostov's sugar plantation.
(2) 100BC - We constructed GL - 9 turns for Machinery. I star an Archer in Thebes - nearby St.Pb stand russian Axeman with Combat-1. Later I saw that he defend russian horse pasture only...
(3) 85BC - Heron was born far away.
(4) 70BC - Gandhi came to me and want exchange his Monotheism to Our Alphabet. I refused him...
Thebes completed Archer, sent him to St.Pb. and started to make Jud. Monastery. I think that Courthouse in Thebes ins not so urgent - maintance - 1 gpt, for FB we need courthouses in other cities. But Monastery add 10% to our science
(5) 55BC - Gandhi came again. He demanded Alphabet. I refused again. I remember of exchange and get Monotheism and 20$ for Alphabet from Cathy. Immediately I chane civics to O.R and Castes - I make one sciensist in Heliopolis (he fishing before it).
(6) 40 BC - Russian closed his borders for us There is a Settler in Memphis - send him to desert hill and start Conf. Monastery.
(7) 25BC - 4 turns to Machinery - decrease research to 90% without turns casualties. Start in Thebes Conf. Monastery.
(8) 10BC - Sugar near Rostov had explored and joined to ou cities. I make MM to grow up our cities. Elephantine was founded (at desert hill). 3 turns to Machinery, 80% research -7 GPT
(9) 5AD - Socrates was born far away. Courthouse in Rostov -> Library. 2 turns to Machinery
I am angry to somebody. Who assigned governor in Thebes for disable city growth?!

That's all...

 

[Obormot]

Everything looks fine. I think the decision to build monasteries in the capital was the right one.

Just some minor stuff: i don't think we need a library in Rostov, it is producing only 4 beakers - a pure production city. I also don't think that Memphis needs a monastery (for the same reason), but since there is only 1 turn left we can finish it. Scientists in Heliopolis should be turned into merchants, keeping the science slider higher will give us more beakers then scientists and the GPP doesn't matter because Thebes should produce a scientist before any other city. Maybe we can halt St. Petersburg growth for a while and hire 2 merchats there too because theer aren't any good tiles for it to work now.

Does anybody know if there is a unit that will be switched to a maceman once we get machinery? If there is such a unit we could start maceman prebuilds in our cities.

 

[Lexad]

Either axe or sword or both - and that's good as you can technically prebuild 2 maces (I presume).

Edit: I've tried this out in GOTM4 for Gandi but did not remember the outcome. Now I tried and only 1 retained prebuilt hammers, the second has his list blank. Swordsman would leave more shields to prebuild, but only 2 turns are left, so any might do - unless you have more hammers in Thebes, like by giving back the cow.

 

[Obormot]

OK, i think we now have to plan the war campaign.

I think we should can start the war with about 2-3 maces to cover our stack and with one catapult. It will take about 7 turns for the catapult to reduce Moscow's defense to 0%, so we should start it before our main forces arrive. During this time we should bring more maces to Moscow (the exact number depends on the number of units there) and then take it. Maybe we should bring 1-2 suicidal catapults with these later maces too since Moscow is built on a hill and some units there might be promoted.

This means that we should build the catapult(s) in Rostov, because should arrive at the front before all other units do. While we research construction and machinery we can build a barracks there with forest chopping.

 

[Lexad]

Just wanted to remind that the previous time we started the wat with Russia, we had unrest the very next turn. So it might be adviseable to make the war blitz.

 

[Ptitsa Consul]

i don't think we need a library in Rostov, it is producing only 4 beakers - a pure production city.

It's not so bad It was my last turn and I want not to think about production in Rosov
There are no hammers in Rostov used for Library. Witan can switch it to any product without penalities...

One remarks now. I forget to write, tha our boats completed their sailing across Indo-Persian Island. There is no way to Boat or Galley to sail to another lands - here is ocean tiles only.

About workers - I sent first time they to explore sugar (3 workers) because our cities can't grow without it and after that I sent these worker to build mine near St.Pb to speed up Courthouse in it.
I agree that because that we use one "wild" tile near Memphis and next turn in Elephantine , but when I send they I can't foresee (my calculating on Tactic level is not so good)

 

[Dynamic]

Yes, we don't need Scientists in any city except Capital because of it greater science coefficient. Only merchants if we need its. But in Heliopolis the better to set one merchant and Hill for increase hammers. In Menphis we can set citizen from Mine to FloodPlain for growth and switch production to Swordsmen (later it will be switched to Macemen automatically) - Monastery is totaly useless building for now.
About Capital - I limited it's growth for prevent unhappiness, so Ptitsa had to be more attentive. And, the Temple before Monastery could allow Capital to grow earlier.
Rostov can start the Barracks and later Macemens.
I think we need Construction for Catapults next.
And we have unimproved Flood Plains near Memphis...

 

[Obormot]

Yes, go for construction next and then straight to astronomy. Rostov should build catapults because we should bring some catapults to Moscow to knock down the defenses before most of our macemen come.

 

[Ptitsa Consul]

Only merchants if we need its. But in Heliopolis the better to set one merchant and Hill for increase hammers.

All citizen in Heliopolis except "scientists" works on Hills! I remove one "scientist" from fish (to prevent grow) and second is newborn citizen. We lost 3 coins on map, but got 6 pure beakers.

In Menphis we can set citizen from Mine to FloodPlain for growth and switch production to Swordsmen (later it will be switched to Macemen automatically) - Monastery is totaly useless building for now.

I set citizen from Mine to FloodPlain (not all) by this time About Monastery - quick building was...

About Capital - I limited it's growth for prevent unhappiness, so Ptitsa had to be more attentive.

I prevent growth by another way - switch 2 tiles between Thebes (cows) and Heliopolis (forget which) - food to Thebes redused by 2, hammers and coins still same. About "more attentive" - I never use governor in Civ-4 and I think not about this feature...

And we have unimproved Flood Plains near Memphis...

Yes, I saw... It was my mistake to send so many workers to explore sugar plantation. I wrote it in my previous post

 

[Dynamic]

One more question for Dynamic - Why we have 80% of science?

Too late for answer, but it was because I just got 200g this turn and didn't switch slider after that.

 

[Dynamic]

All citizen in Heliopolis except "scientists" works on Hills! I remove one "scientist" from fish (to prevent grow) and second is newborn citizen. We lost 3 coins on map, but got 6 pure beakers.

I set citizen from Mine to FloodPlain (not all) by this time About Monastery - quick building was...

Very interesting... this is the second time when we have different game state depend on reloading!
When I loaded save this time Heliopolis works on Fish and Memphis on one Hill and one FP!

Previous time in my game Russia won't sell us Monoteism, but after saving when anybody loads the save (and I also), Russia allows to exchange Monoteism...

 

[akots]

Just a note that using governors is generally not a good idea in a succession game because the next players is not aware of this and cannot really follow up the actions unless it was explicitly stated that there was a governor hired in a certain city for a certain specific purpose. Also, there is little need to save time because each player only plays a few turns. Not that many turns and not many cities and certainly possible to manage each city almost every turn.

So, please, in the future, do not use governors. Also, try not to use goto orders for units. If you are using these, please, clearly state it in the description of the turns.

IMHO, we need some pictures. I cannot post them at the moment unfortunately.

 

[Obormot]

I think nobody used governors for tile allocations. What was turned on is the "no growth" button. It can sometimes be usefull even if you micromanage cities, like if you are at the happiness limit and you don't want to grow, but you do want a food surplus (for example to work floodplain cottages). After the food box is filled new food will just be wasted and the city won't grow. But this prevents wasting food on feeding an unhappy citizen, and sometimes it is better to loose some food now then to loose more food later.

This button can be very annoying though if you forget to switch it off after the happiness problem is solved and you do want to grow. And I think that was what Consul was complaining about. The button can be used in some cases when it is usefull, but then the next player should be warned about it.

 

[Ptitsa Consul]

When I loaded save this time Heliopolis works on Fish and Memphis on one Hill and one FP!

Previous turn, I sure, all was as I wrote (i set second scientist and replace one citizen in Memphis (when we had +1 happy face and +1 citizen in Helio...)
Mainly we must remember it and in our zero-turn check cities, relation and other...

PS
About governor - there was all right while Thebes must be constant size (I make MM first turn for preventing it ), but when I saw that city must grow up (my last turn) - it was bad surprise. It has been a reason for "complaining"

 

[Cat Behemoth]

Very interesting... this is the second time when we have different game state depend on reloading!
When I loaded save this time Heliopolis works on Fish and Memphis on one Hill and one FP!

Previous time in my game Russia won't sell us Monoteism, but after saving when anybody loads the save (and I also), Russia allows to exchange Monoteism...

Try to load it once more. You can get a different result of allocation. And even different tech to learn. Sometimes it happens. Seriously.

 

[Obormot]

The roster update:

Dynamic
Ptitsa Consul - just played
Witan - up
akots
Obormot
Lexad
Cat Behemoth

 

[akots]

Do not hurry here please. It is not clear what to do. At least for me.

 

[Lexad]

Wasn't it maces and couple of catas as people proposed here? Sounds good for me. And temples and colliseums during the war in cities to drop unhappiness.

 

[akots]

Wasn't it maces and couple of catas as people proposed here? Sounds good for me. And temples and colliseums during the war in cities to drop unhappiness.

Sorry, I don't like that plan. Macemen sound OK though but not temples or that other building you suggest which I never built in my whole life in any game of Civ. Even going for 20K or 100K cultural win in Civ3.

To fight the unhappiness, we can either use the luxury slider available with Drama or build theaters also available with Drama. Or we can just let it go as it is.