DaviddesJ
Deity
Heliopolis is already connected (as I expected)---look at the city screen.
SGOTM 01 - Peanut
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
We haven't heard from Keith (I know he's around 
so we'll assume he needs a pass as well). PaulK, why don't you take it, and we'll play MailMan and Keith Larson after you. Post a got-it to confirm, and any questions you might have.
so we'll assume he needs a pass as well). PaulK, why don't you take it, and we'll play MailMan and Keith Larson after you. Post a got-it to confirm, and any questions you might have.
Got it. Could you all just clarify some things I should do this turn. As it stands I have:
-rush workboat in helopolis and than build a _______.
-rush worker in Mephis and than build a _______.
-In Elphantine switch to stone hill and have a workboat done in 5 turns than build a _____.
-With the southern workers connect the empires and build the pasture for elphantine
-With the Northern workers continue to build cottages for Thebes and Mephis
-move a single WC to the rice by site 7
What should I do in the blanks?
Anything I missed or should change?
Paulk
-rush workboat in helopolis and than build a _______.
-rush worker in Mephis and than build a _______.
-In Elphantine switch to stone hill and have a workboat done in 5 turns than build a _____.
-With the southern workers connect the empires and build the pasture for elphantine
-With the Northern workers continue to build cottages for Thebes and Mephis
-move a single WC to the rice by site 7
What should I do in the blanks?
Anything I missed or should change?
Paulk
DaviddesJ
Deity
Heliopolis: rush workboat at size 2, then 2nd workboat, then library? granary?
Memphis: build current worker normally (don't want to rush again until the unhappiness from last time wears off), then grow to size 4 while building library (possibly rush 2 citizens when reaching size 4)
Elephantine: workboat in 5 turns while working stone hill, then granary?
St Petersburg: work coast for 3 turns, pop rush granary, then library?
Thebes: 4 turns of work on library, then finish with pop rush (end of previous unhappiness), use carryover for settler?
There's so much profitable micromanagement of cities to be done at this stage of the game, I can't really work out the best approach for every city for every turn. Each player is going to have to use their own judgment. (We could, as a group, micro-analyze what everyone should do, every time, but I think that would get excessive.) As a general principle, cities at their growth limit should consider pop rushing, especially if they have granaries (which speed the regrowth), and it's desirable to pop rush with 2 people at one time (because you only get 1 unit of unhappiness), and it's (VERY) undesirable to pop rush again before the unhappiness from the previous time wears off.
I'd suggest you aim to finish Alphabet in 10 turns, so then at the next handover we can decide what to do next. Also, by then we'll have a better idea of whether we're going to meet someone. Once we have libraries, we should generally run with binary science (i.e., alternate between 0% and 100%).
Our next settler from the north should probably go near the silver, to spread happiness to the rest of our cities. Our next settler from the south should probably go to Site #7, assuming we're either relatively close to having Iron Working (to clear the jungle on the rice), or we find a coastal resource to go with the horses and rice.
We should consider building some warriors for garrison duty so that we can bring our WCs south and re-attack Catherine when the opportunity presents itself. (A good time would be when she has a worker or settler to steal, or splits up her archers so we can pick some off outside her city.)
Memphis: build current worker normally (don't want to rush again until the unhappiness from last time wears off), then grow to size 4 while building library (possibly rush 2 citizens when reaching size 4)
Elephantine: workboat in 5 turns while working stone hill, then granary?
St Petersburg: work coast for 3 turns, pop rush granary, then library?
Thebes: 4 turns of work on library, then finish with pop rush (end of previous unhappiness), use carryover for settler?
There's so much profitable micromanagement of cities to be done at this stage of the game, I can't really work out the best approach for every city for every turn. Each player is going to have to use their own judgment. (We could, as a group, micro-analyze what everyone should do, every time, but I think that would get excessive.) As a general principle, cities at their growth limit should consider pop rushing, especially if they have granaries (which speed the regrowth), and it's desirable to pop rush with 2 people at one time (because you only get 1 unit of unhappiness), and it's (VERY) undesirable to pop rush again before the unhappiness from the previous time wears off.
I'd suggest you aim to finish Alphabet in 10 turns, so then at the next handover we can decide what to do next. Also, by then we'll have a better idea of whether we're going to meet someone. Once we have libraries, we should generally run with binary science (i.e., alternate between 0% and 100%).
Our next settler from the north should probably go near the silver, to spread happiness to the rest of our cities. Our next settler from the south should probably go to Site #7, assuming we're either relatively close to having Iron Working (to clear the jungle on the rice), or we find a coastal resource to go with the horses and rice.
We should consider building some warriors for garrison duty so that we can bring our WCs south and re-attack Catherine when the opportunity presents itself. (A good time would be when she has a worker or settler to steal, or splits up her archers so we can pick some off outside her city.)
I appreciate the 'good general principle' you just laid out for city management; we definitely don't want to micro analyze every city every turnset! I would add that in addition to wanting to work the bonuses out at sea, we want Workboats for exploring and to make whatever contacts we can reach.
Warriors for MP duty to free up our WC's makes sense; the forces we have should be sufficient to take out Catherine when the time is right. We may be able to make a Technology Trade with her yet, but a free Worker or 2 is nice as well.
We are happiness limited so the Silver to the North looks desirable.
Good Luck, PaulK!
Warriors for MP duty to free up our WC's makes sense; the forces we have should be sufficient to take out Catherine when the time is right. We may be able to make a Technology Trade with her yet, but a free Worker or 2 is nice as well.
We are happiness limited so the Silver to the North looks desirable.
Good Luck, PaulK!
DaviddesJ
Deity
civ_steve said:
I think one Workboat for exploring is probably enough. Either we'll find a large amount of other land that's reachable without crossing oceans, in which case we'll probably find someone to trade with and be able to pick up Sailing and build Galleys, or we'll find that only a small amount of land is reachable, and we can explore it with our one Workboat (and we'll want a galley at some point to colonize the indigo island, as well as to defend ourselves from barbarian galleys eventually).
DaviddesJ
Deity
civ_steve said:
My style is to try to provide constructive feedback after each turnset, about what I think could have been done better. In keeping with the idea of SGOTM as a learning process for all of us. If this gets too annoying, or people want less criticism, please let me know.
DaviddesJ
Deity
Depending on what we find when exploring, putting a city on the indigo tile, that can work cows and clams (and maybe another resource?) looks like an excellent spot. Desert/incense is a relatively mediocre tile, even with a plantation.
Of course, this requires a galley, as well as beating any AIs who might be on that land and heading there. If we find that land is already inhabited, we may not have that option. If we find that land is uninhabited (and, perhaps, a relatively small island), we might well want to prioritize Sailing in order to get a settler (or more?) over there.
Of course, this requires a galley, as well as beating any AIs who might be on that land and heading there. If we find that land is already inhabited, we may not have that option. If we find that land is uninhabited (and, perhaps, a relatively small island), we might well want to prioritize Sailing in order to get a settler (or more?) over there.
Reporting in just finished my turn set. Exploration, construction (using the blood of the people), and Diplomacy.
Turn 0 1000 BC
Send a WC to explore rice by site 7 (find nothing 2 turns later)
Work stone instead of unpastured cow (workboat in 5 turns)
Turn 1 985 BC
Pop Rush WB @ Hel.
Start on more cottages by Thebes
Start construction on road to connect our great empire and get beautiful gems to the people of Thebes.
Turn 2 970 BC
Use new Workboat to explore NE mountains (find a fish there)
Pop Rush a library in Moscow
Turn 3 955 BC
Pop Rush Granary in St. Pet.
More exploration with Workboats
Switch to Binary Research (0%/100%)
Start Granary in Moscow
Turn 4 940 BC
Start warrior in St. Pet. (so we can send the WC south towards catherine's last city)
Worker complete in Mephis, build cottages.
Our magnificent empire is connected bringing happiness to many people.
Turn 5 925 BC
Workboat finished in Elep start granary.
Library finished in Thebes start on Granary.
Turn 6 910 BC
Warrior finished in St. Pete start Library.
More cottages and Workboat exploration.
Turn 7 895 BC
Move WB south of Incence and Find the puny Buddhist Cyrus. His empire consists of 4 cities and he is far behind us. I sign a open-boarders agreement and start exploring to the south of his continent.
Pop Rush Granary in Thebes, start on a WC.
Turn 8 880 BC
Nothing happened anywhere.
TUrn 9 865 BC
Pyramids built in far away land.
Rush Workboat in Hele.
More cottages.
Turn 10 850 BC
Not much.
Here is the save.
Some notes:
Alphabet done next turn, we will be able to trade with 2 partners. Several cottages and libraries were completed, gems brouight to Thebes and a general improvement in our economy. Cyrus is currently far behind us except in culture. Once we get as much as possible from catherine we are ready with 6 WCs to attack her. We might wait till she builds a worker/settler before we attack. Did not start a settler in my turnset.
Paulk
Turn 0 1000 BC
Send a WC to explore rice by site 7 (find nothing 2 turns later)
Work stone instead of unpastured cow (workboat in 5 turns)
Turn 1 985 BC
Pop Rush WB @ Hel.
Start on more cottages by Thebes
Start construction on road to connect our great empire and get beautiful gems to the people of Thebes.
Turn 2 970 BC
Use new Workboat to explore NE mountains (find a fish there)
Pop Rush a library in Moscow
Turn 3 955 BC
Pop Rush Granary in St. Pet.
More exploration with Workboats
Switch to Binary Research (0%/100%)
Start Granary in Moscow
Turn 4 940 BC
Start warrior in St. Pet. (so we can send the WC south towards catherine's last city)
Worker complete in Mephis, build cottages.
Our magnificent empire is connected bringing happiness to many people.
Turn 5 925 BC
Workboat finished in Elep start granary.
Library finished in Thebes start on Granary.
Turn 6 910 BC
Warrior finished in St. Pete start Library.
More cottages and Workboat exploration.
Turn 7 895 BC
Move WB south of Incence and Find the puny Buddhist Cyrus. His empire consists of 4 cities and he is far behind us. I sign a open-boarders agreement and start exploring to the south of his continent.
Pop Rush Granary in Thebes, start on a WC.
Turn 8 880 BC
Nothing happened anywhere.
TUrn 9 865 BC
Pyramids built in far away land.
Rush Workboat in Hele.
More cottages.
Turn 10 850 BC
Not much.
Here is the save.
Some notes:
Alphabet done next turn, we will be able to trade with 2 partners. Several cottages and libraries were completed, gems brouight to Thebes and a general improvement in our economy. Cyrus is currently far behind us except in culture. Once we get as much as possible from catherine we are ready with 6 WCs to attack her. We might wait till she builds a worker/settler before we attack. Did not start a settler in my turnset.
Paulk
DaviddesJ
Deity
I don't like rushing the 2nd workboat in Heliopolis, we'd be considerably better off if we had waited for the previous unhappiness to wear off (and/or for the city to grow to size 3). Now we have too few people to work all of our tiles anyway, and we're going to hit the happiness limit before we can rush again. (With +2 unhappiness, now we really must wait another 21 turns before rushing.)
We can use the clams for health, plus they are better than the floodplain/farm tile we're presently working; I think we should just be improving the tiles we've got, rather than sailing those workboats around any more. It's interesting to find another fish NE of Thebes, and maybe this is a reason to site an extra city 3E of Memphis, but it's not going to be a high priority (we still have several other sites to settle, too).
But overall it looks like we're doing quite well.
We can use the clams for health, plus they are better than the floodplain/farm tile we're presently working; I think we should just be improving the tiles we've got, rather than sailing those workboats around any more. It's interesting to find another fish NE of Thebes, and maybe this is a reason to site an extra city 3E of Memphis, but it's not going to be a high priority (we still have several other sites to settle, too).
But overall it looks like we're doing quite well.
DaviddesJ
Deity
P.S. We're only about 16 turns from size 4 in Heliopolis, if we maximize growth. What we probably want to do is grow to size 4 in 21 turns, then we can pop rush the granary. With the extra turns, I'd suggest we build a partial settler (or worker) once we reach size 3, switching back to granary at the right time to arrive at size 4 just when our current unhappiness penalty wears off.
Another idea would be to mine the plains hill near Heliopolis, then when we reach size 3 we could work that instead of the food tiles, slowing our growth to size 4, and giving us extra hammers toward the granary. I don't think this is really better, though.
Note, the way you figure out when the unhappiness will wear off is to look at the number of turns of unhappiness when you mouseover the pop rush button, and then subtract 15. I.e., currently in Heliopolis it shows +1 unhappiness for 36 turns, this means that the current +2 unhappiness will last another 21 turns. If we were to rush again before it expires, then we would be at +3 unhappiness for the next 36 turns (which would be terrible).
Another idea would be to mine the plains hill near Heliopolis, then when we reach size 3 we could work that instead of the food tiles, slowing our growth to size 4, and giving us extra hammers toward the granary. I don't think this is really better, though.
Note, the way you figure out when the unhappiness will wear off is to look at the number of turns of unhappiness when you mouseover the pop rush button, and then subtract 15. I.e., currently in Heliopolis it shows +1 unhappiness for 36 turns, this means that the current +2 unhappiness will last another 21 turns. If we were to rush again before it expires, then we would be at +3 unhappiness for the next 36 turns (which would be terrible).
@DaviddesJ - I appreciate constructive criticism , please keep it coming!
OK, MailMan and Keith Larson, it's been two days with no 'got-it' post. Technically MailMan is next, but he asked for a swap/pass this round on the 31st. Haven't gotten a post from Keith since the 28th. DaviddesJ is 3rd up (I believe) and it's been long enough. Of these 3, whoever wishes the next turnset, please post a 'got-it' post.
, please keep it coming! OK, MailMan and Keith Larson, it's been two days with no 'got-it' post. Technically MailMan is next, but he asked for a swap/pass this round on the 31st. Haven't gotten a post from Keith since the 28th. DaviddesJ is 3rd up (I believe) and it's been long enough. Of these 3, whoever wishes the next turnset, please post a 'got-it' post.
DaviddesJ
Deity
OK, I'll take it. I'll do my turn tonight. MailMan said he'll be back on Monday.
DaviddesJ
Deity
835 BC update: Catherine has Mysticism, Sailing, Hunting, Masonry (but won't trade any of them yet); needs Pottery, Writing. Since she has Sailing, we could trade resources to her, but of course she doesn't have anything we want.
Cyrus has Mysticism, Hunting, Masonry; needs Writing. We can trade Writing for Masonry, or for both Mysticism and Hunting, or we can wait, if we figure neither is especially useful to us yet.
I'm inclined to trade for Masonry, figuring we'll need it eventually, but I'm open to other opinions. Then I'll research Iron Working (but at 0% for a while).
Cyrus has Mysticism, Hunting, Masonry; needs Writing. We can trade Writing for Masonry, or for both Mysticism and Hunting, or we can wait, if we figure neither is especially useful to us yet.
I'm inclined to trade for Masonry, figuring we'll need it eventually, but I'm open to other opinions. Then I'll research Iron Working (but at 0% for a while).
ok so mailman plays after davidjes and I play after mailman ?
I agree to trade writing for masonry. Probably we should go to sailing soon if we want to send exploration units to cyrus land, and also on defence purpose. Naval units will have a great imortance in this game, I guess...
by the way, I totally agree with a criticism spirit: we should not hesitate to discuss our decision with good arguments. It 's true also that it is impossible to micromanage every turnset, and probably it would be less interesting: the aim here is to have a team play and let a little part of random with the different players styles.
I agree to trade writing for masonry. Probably we should go to sailing soon if we want to send exploration units to cyrus land, and also on defence purpose. Naval units will have a great imortance in this game, I guess...
by the way, I totally agree with a criticism spirit: we should not hesitate to discuss our decision with good arguments. It 's true also that it is impossible to micromanage every turnset, and probably it would be less interesting: the aim here is to have a team play and let a little part of random with the different players styles.
DaviddesJ
Deity
Turn 110, 850 BC: St Petersburg citizen to coast
Turn 110, 850 BC: Elephantine citizen to cows
Turn 110, 850 BC: Research to 90%
Turn 110, 850 BC: You have discovered Alphabet!
Turn 111, 835 BC: Spotted wine inside Cyrus's borders.
Turn 111, 835 BC: Workboat improves fish near Heliopolis
Turn 111, 835 BC: Memphis grows to size 5
Turn 111, 835 BC: Memphis switches to settler
Turn 111, 835 BC: You have discovered Masonry!
Turn 111, 835 BC: Research to 0%
Turn 112, 820 BC: Catherine asks for Alphabet which I decline
Turn 112, 820 BC: Catherine builds worker in Novgorod
Turn 112, 820 BC: Barbarian warrior south of Thebes
Turn 113, 805 BC: Fishing boat improves clams near Heliopolis
Turn 114, 790 BC: The Parthenon has been built in a far away land!
Turn 114, 790 BC: Heliopolis moves citizen to cottage
Turn 114, 790 BC: Peanut's War Chariot has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
Turn 115, 775 BC: Moscow moves citizen to rice
Turn 115, 775 BC: Moscow builds warrior
Turn 115, 775 BC: Heliopolis moves citizen to fish
Turn 115, 775 BC: Thebes moves citizen to cottage
Turn 115, 775 BC: Memphis rushes settler for 2 pop
Turn 115, 775 BC: Memphis builds settler, resumes library
Turn 117, 745 BC: Alexandria has been founded.
Turn 118, 730 BC: Elephantine pop rushes granary with 1 pop
Turn 119, 715 BC: Spotted purple border but no contact
Turn 120, 700 BC: Spotted another purple border, contact soon
Turn 120, 700 BC: Russian borders expand!
Turn 120, 700 BC: Russia completes mine on copper
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Peanut_SG001_BC0700_01.Civ4SavedGame
Turn 110, 850 BC: Elephantine citizen to cows
Turn 110, 850 BC: Research to 90%
Turn 110, 850 BC: You have discovered Alphabet!
Turn 111, 835 BC: Spotted wine inside Cyrus's borders.
Turn 111, 835 BC: Workboat improves fish near Heliopolis
Turn 111, 835 BC: Memphis grows to size 5
Turn 111, 835 BC: Memphis switches to settler
Turn 111, 835 BC: You have discovered Masonry!
Turn 111, 835 BC: Research to 0%
Turn 112, 820 BC: Catherine asks for Alphabet which I decline
Turn 112, 820 BC: Catherine builds worker in Novgorod
Turn 112, 820 BC: Barbarian warrior south of Thebes
Turn 113, 805 BC: Fishing boat improves clams near Heliopolis
Turn 114, 790 BC: The Parthenon has been built in a far away land!
Turn 114, 790 BC: Heliopolis moves citizen to cottage
Turn 114, 790 BC: Peanut's War Chariot has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
Turn 115, 775 BC: Moscow moves citizen to rice
Turn 115, 775 BC: Moscow builds warrior
Turn 115, 775 BC: Heliopolis moves citizen to fish
Turn 115, 775 BC: Thebes moves citizen to cottage
Turn 115, 775 BC: Memphis rushes settler for 2 pop
Turn 115, 775 BC: Memphis builds settler, resumes library
Turn 117, 745 BC: Alexandria has been founded.
Turn 118, 730 BC: Elephantine pop rushes granary with 1 pop
Turn 119, 715 BC: Spotted purple border but no contact
Turn 120, 700 BC: Spotted another purple border, contact soon
Turn 120, 700 BC: Russian borders expand!
Turn 120, 700 BC: Russia completes mine on copper
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Peanut_SG001_BC0700_01.Civ4SavedGame
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