Till
Adventurer
I got it then. Will play later today.
SGOTM 01 - Rat Pack
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Well I tried for a permanant alliance in a recent game and couldn't do it. The option wouldn't even appear. I had the two techs I thought I needed (communism and Fascism) but no good. I also read someone's post on getting them and we would have to have 40 turns of a defensive pact which means 40 turns of not declaring war. Finally, we and our ally cannot be the most powerful or it doesn't work.
I am now inclined to suggest we don't bother with trying it. Straight forward Domination is going to be faster.
I am now inclined to suggest we don't bother with trying it. Straight forward Domination is going to be faster.
ThERat
Deity
I do not understand exactly. Does our permanent war make a defensive alliance impossible?
In that case, we need to take out Huayna and then get an alliance. In addition we would have to make sure there is someone stronger than us or Gandhi./
If all that is true, I think this game is a little too complicted for an SG...But we can always try
Till
Adventurer
If Greebley is correct, then i wouldn't even attempt to get a permanent alliance in a SP game. Can Ghandi flip our cities /can we flip his? If yes, maybe it is wise to switch to a containment strategy.
Gambling on the permanent alliance could make domination impossible, if Ghandi refuses to play along.
Gambling on the permanent alliance could make domination impossible, if Ghandi refuses to play along.
Till
Adventurer
Inherited turn:
There's a Persian axe outside Susa waiting to tear up our 18 EXP chariot. I move it out along with an injured axeman.
1
Axe is chasing us. Unfortunately the empty city was not enough to tempt Cyrus into declaring war on Ghandi.
3
Whip courthouse in Moscow.
An Incan caravel shows up next to one of our fishnets.
A great scientist spaws. Use him to research Philosophy, as Ghandi doesn't seem to have it yet.
5
Take Basra, losing one unit. Burn it down.
Dial up cyrus. The cheap bastard still doesn't want to part with Currency. Alright, we can't take another city, but there's still pillaging left to be done.
Whip Courthouse in Yaroslavl.
Dial up Ghandi. Let's see what we can get for Philosophy.
Um Drama and 10 gold?! Come again?!
The best offer i can get is Philosophy +150 gold for Feudalism. OK.
6
Start pillagin Persia. Anything to fuel our research.
Damn! Cyrus managed to land two swordsmen on our lands. The galley must have come from Tarsus. Thanks again for being our buddy, Ghandi!
I can't get sufficient defender to the threatened town, so i dial up Cyrus for peace.
We get 210 gold and 3gpt, but no tech.
Nothing interesting happened during the remaining turns. Units are gathering near moscow for the final strike against Russia.
Most cities have courthouses now, but our economy still needs recovering. With only one trade partner, tech deals are sour.
We might consider gifting Cyrus spare resources, just to get him to trade with us again. Not that he has anything worthwhile besides currency.
(Also: Interesting that nobody has posted in the spoiler thread yet. Seems like we are not the only ones with a lack of contacts.)
There's a Persian axe outside Susa waiting to tear up our 18 EXP chariot. I move it out along with an injured axeman.
1
Axe is chasing us. Unfortunately the empty city was not enough to tempt Cyrus into declaring war on Ghandi.
3
Whip courthouse in Moscow.
An Incan caravel shows up next to one of our fishnets.
A great scientist spaws. Use him to research Philosophy, as Ghandi doesn't seem to have it yet.
5
Take Basra, losing one unit. Burn it down.
Dial up cyrus. The cheap bastard still doesn't want to part with Currency. Alright, we can't take another city, but there's still pillaging left to be done.
Whip Courthouse in Yaroslavl.
Dial up Ghandi. Let's see what we can get for Philosophy.
Um Drama and 10 gold?! Come again?!
The best offer i can get is Philosophy +150 gold for Feudalism. OK.
6
Start pillagin Persia. Anything to fuel our research.
Damn! Cyrus managed to land two swordsmen on our lands. The galley must have come from Tarsus. Thanks again for being our buddy, Ghandi!
I can't get sufficient defender to the threatened town, so i dial up Cyrus for peace.
We get 210 gold and 3gpt, but no tech.
Nothing interesting happened during the remaining turns. Units are gathering near moscow for the final strike against Russia.
Most cities have courthouses now, but our economy still needs recovering. With only one trade partner, tech deals are sour.
We might consider gifting Cyrus spare resources, just to get him to trade with us again. Not that he has anything worthwhile besides currency.
(Also: Interesting that nobody has posted in the spoiler thread yet. Seems like we are not the only ones with a lack of contacts.)
---------->The Save<----------
ThERat
Deity
We are pretty fast compared with other teams and honestly this map seems very slow and draggy. The game setup also makes thing difficult. I honestly do not understand how Huayna and Gandhi can be so advanced. What are they doing? Persia/Russia and us are those backward people. This isn't emperor or such difficutly.
We need to get to caravels to get overseas asap.
Anyway, good turns Till
I tried to go for a permanent alliance without a defensive pact,thus
only a military alliance in a current sologame.The facts :
You need indeed to be at least 40 turns at war to get the PA option.
After a 40 turns MA with Alex (+16),I did get the option,but he doesn't like
me enough.I didn't count the turns with Qin (+12),but the PA is possible.
See the pictures,the same phony war with Gandhi,.Also no WW.
So,I still believe in this idea.
only a military alliance in a current sologame.The facts :
You need indeed to be at least 40 turns at war to get the PA option.
After a 40 turns MA with Alex (+16),I did get the option,but he doesn't like
me enough.I didn't count the turns with Qin (+12),but the PA is possible.
See the pictures,the same phony war with Gandhi,.Also no WW.
So,I still believe in this idea.
Cosmichail
Dark Lord of The Sith
Hi guys just a lurker here and enjoy watching everybody's strategy. PA can be tricky but when I played a game I was approached to sign up for it and took it which resulted in winning a diplomatic victory. Here were the conditions: I was at war and we were mutually fighting the same enemy for some time. We were on a friendly status and trading quite a bit. He requested a tech and I let him have it as I have found it can really pay off.
Oh yea I was in second place and he was in third. I hope this give you some ideas and good luck......
Oh yea I was in second place and he was in third. I hope this give you some ideas and good luck......
Cosmichail
Dark Lord of The Sith
Just another thing I forget to mention. I did have to sweeten up a third party to get them to vote for me for diplomatic victory. That PA is sweet by the way as you share everything and can double the tech speed. Just research what your partner isn't. That was the first time I got a PA and have to say made the game really enjoyable. Constant warmongering is fun but can have it drawbacks.....
Is it Ghandi we have permant peace with? If so, it will be very hard to do a phony war because you can't get him to attack anyone and we can't bribe someone to attack him. That is why I think we would need a defensive pact. Ghandi would stop the war before 40 turns.
One can get high bonuses with a Religious Civ. In my test game I had +8 for religion (and +5 for tech demands) I think I was over 20. The real problem was that 40 turns for the defensive pact - well I could take out all civs but my friend faster.
If it is not Ghandi, then a fake war may be good. Another rule I read is that neither us or them can be the most powerful which may mean disbanding troops.
[edit: I forgot one other major concern. Gyathaar, put us at peace with the civ (something not easy to do). If we are locked in peace, then can we get an Alliance? We may not be able to if that is a different "state" than "always peace". We could try it and find we can't do it at the end of the 40 turns.
One can get high bonuses with a Religious Civ. In my test game I had +8 for religion (and +5 for tech demands) I think I was over 20. The real problem was that 40 turns for the defensive pact - well I could take out all civs but my friend faster.
If it is not Ghandi, then a fake war may be good. Another rule I read is that neither us or them can be the most powerful which may mean disbanding troops.
[edit: I forgot one other major concern. Gyathaar, put us at peace with the civ (something not easy to do). If we are locked in peace, then can we get an Alliance? We may not be able to if that is a different "state" than "always peace". We could try it and find we can't do it at the end of the 40 turns.
ThERat
Deity
Roster
Tatran
acidsatyr
knupp
TheRat
Till
Greebley - up
Ok, here is what I suggest. We try for permanent alliance victory make sure Gandhi get's big in the long run.
We ourselves make sure we are not better than #3.
We need to have a long war (preferably phony). It would help if we can make sure that Huayna and Gandhi do not like each other and we can get Gandhi to declare war on him.
If we can't get Gandhi to declare, we need to get rid of Huayna first, then go for a defensive pact.
This should be started around 30-40 turns before we can get facism. Then of course, we should make sure, we can grab as much land as possible to go beyond 66%. Thus, we might want to prepare a huge invasion force once we have that alliance.
As for shorter term, it might be good to trade with Cyrus as he is as backwards as us. Gift him some techs and other stuff to make him friendly and we might get back to trading.
And we need caravels urgently to explore the world and know everyone around.
Tatran
acidsatyr
knupp
TheRat
Till
Greebley - up
Ok, here is what I suggest. We try for permanent alliance victory make sure Gandhi get's big in the long run.
We ourselves make sure we are not better than #3.
We need to have a long war (preferably phony). It would help if we can make sure that Huayna and Gandhi do not like each other and we can get Gandhi to declare war on him.
If we can't get Gandhi to declare, we need to get rid of Huayna first, then go for a defensive pact.
This should be started around 30-40 turns before we can get facism. Then of course, we should make sure, we can grab as much land as possible to go beyond 66%. Thus, we might want to prepare a huge invasion force once we have that alliance.
As for shorter term, it might be good to trade with Cyrus as he is as backwards as us. Gift him some techs and other stuff to make him friendly and we might get back to trading.
And we need caravels urgently to explore the world and know everyone around.
Cosmichail
Dark Lord of The Sith
Hi guys had a look at your game and looks good. Here some things you might want to consider. If you get PA with Ghandi eventually and he is at the top he will control UN and thereby will achieve a diplomatic victory himself. If you are in third spot it won't give you control of UN. Another point is that if another party signs DP with Ghandi and you need to take out that other party what happens when you declare. It is more likely you can achieve PA with a party less powerful than you and you are let's say in second spot. I noticed that Cyrus is friendly with Ghandi which complicates a future relationship with Cyrus since you have so many negatives with him. So it is likely as I have found (in other games) he will sign DP with Ghandi when he can. Good luck you haven't found everybody yet so there is room for diplomatic options. Just some things to consider.
AFAIK, you can never get Ghandi to declare war on anyone.
Can anyone verify or deny this?
Can anyone verify or deny this?
Cosmichail
Dark Lord of The Sith
Have to correct what I said earlier about PA. I just discovered that no matter what, you are one and if in control of UN counts for both. So I am sorry about that. You just need a friendly third party to get a diplomatic victory. I have also learned that it's 40 turns of DP or similiarly mutual war to get PA. I think it's better to be in second place to get PA with Ghandi. If you are at the top you might get the "too powerful" statement. Good luck and hope you don't mind commenting.
That will be our problem.acidsatyr said:
Just look at Till's save and we have now a double option,
we can bribe Gandhi into war with Catherine and Capac.
Also the 40 turns MA doesn't mean non-stop and with the
same enemy.
One war for Gandhi is enough,if he signs peace with one
enemy than bribe him to attack the other enemy.
40 turns are over before you know it.
I prefer we work on this idea to have more options later
ín the game.I don't like to fight against time,because
someone is running away in tech while we are fighting.
Off topic situation
Same solo game.Won diplomatic,but played some more turns to see
if Bismarck wanted immediately a PA after the 40 turns MA.
Btw,I owned the U.N. and Alex still didn't like me enough for a PA.
(He voted for me,but did lose the game.
)
Score graph
Power graph
I can't make any conclusions based on the positions at the score +
power graph.
Same solo game.Won diplomatic,but played some more turns to see
if Bismarck wanted immediately a PA after the 40 turns MA.
Btw,I owned the U.N. and Alex still didn't like me enough for a PA.
(He voted for me,but did lose the game.
)
Score graph
Power graph
I can't make any conclusions based on the positions at the score +
power graph.
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