Maquis
King
Crap on Cathy for plopping that city down. I think she needs to die soon! I imagine that was her city #2. Now we need those horses! 
Good catch! I didn't even notice that
Good catch! I didn't even notice that
SGOTM 01 - V Q
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Cathy should be taken out with the UU anyway ... before she meets anyone else. She's in a weak position it appears and we should be able to dispose of her pretty quickly; I don't think she can expand any further in the South (I base this on how quick a second Scout appeared in the North).
GreyFox
Make it so ...
I, as opposed to bobrath, is not too concerned with city BFC overlapping. How many cities of 21 would you get in a monarch game? We should have won this game by the time any city run out of tiles anyway.
Having said that, here is the dotmap I prepared:
Blue dot: - copper, clams, cows (if lucky), on hill. block cathy off
Red dot: - 2x cows, horsey
Pink dot: - cows, fish
green dot: - convert a desert to useful tile, clams
cyan dot: - rice, have more space to shift the city location depedning on the sea tile SE
white dot: relies on flood plains for growth
We could pop one more city up north for the silver, but that is going to be severely growth-limited, unless there is a seafood up north
--
I won't play till tonght, let's have a bit of discussion first on where to go next.
Research: Masonry -> ?
I would suggest: archery (get base defense up), fishing (get work boats off), and horseback riding (for horse archers). We could also go writing ...
Builds: Settler -> ?
the triangular mids, I guess.
Worker: After mine -> ?
RFarm Rice -> then move to stones, if masonry is in, start quarry, else road.
--
Having said that, here is the dotmap I prepared:
Blue dot: - copper, clams, cows (if lucky), on hill. block cathy off
Red dot: - 2x cows, horsey
Pink dot: - cows, fish
green dot: - convert a desert to useful tile, clams
cyan dot: - rice, have more space to shift the city location depedning on the sea tile SE
white dot: relies on flood plains for growth
We could pop one more city up north for the silver, but that is going to be severely growth-limited, unless there is a seafood up north
--
I won't play till tonght, let's have a bit of discussion first on where to go next.
Research: Masonry -> ?
I would suggest: archery (get base defense up), fishing (get work boats off), and horseback riding (for horse archers). We could also go writing ...
Builds: Settler -> ?
the triangular mids, I guess.
Worker: After mine -> ?
RFarm Rice -> then move to stones, if masonry is in, start quarry, else road.
--
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
GreyFox said:
I concur ... I liked Nara
Horseback riding is expensive, and are horse archers any better than our UU? They have slightly more power (6 v 5) and a bonus versus Cats ... so I don't think HBR is worthwhile.
Archery isn't a bad choice, but I don't think we need Archers immediately.
Fishing isn't probably necessary yet. How about Pottery? We can get Cottages going, and it should be quick and cheap.
Don't forget to road the mine you're on.
Dotmap looks good, I'll look at it some more later and if I have any comments I'll post them.
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Barbs will start appearing about around this time ... you tell me if archery is needed or not. SPeaking abt barbs, why is the scout fog busting the south? I would have him fog busting the north instead, since our next city should be SW == blue dot (not mainly for the copper, but more importantly to block Cathy off).
Also, when blocking Cathy, an archer in defense might be a good idea.
I am okay with going pottery first, but we need fishing and sailing soon, plus we have only one worker, he is overwhelmed with work to do ...
SPeaking abt barbs, why is the scout fog busting the south? I would have him fog busting the north instead, since our next city should be SW == blue dot (not mainly for the copper, but more importantly to block Cathy off).Also, when blocking Cathy, an archer in defense might be a good idea.
I am okay with going pottery first, but we need fishing and sailing soon, plus we have only one worker, he is overwhelmed with work to do ...
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
GreyFox said:Barbs will start appearing about around this time ... you tell me if archery is needed or not.
Also, when blocking Cathy, an archer in defense might be a good idea.
I am okay with going pottery first, but we need fishing and sailing soon, plus we have only one worker, he is overwhelmed with work to do ...
Sloooooow down. The scout hasn't had a chance to get back Northeast yet (didn't you read the write-up?
). He's in the south in order to max out the visible tiles on his way back to the NE.The reason Archer isn't as necessary is because of the War Chariot. If I had to choose, I'd build the Horse city first and start pumping WCs out. Archers aren't necessary because Cathy wouldn't get close enough to our cities.
I agree that we need fishing and sailing soon, but probably not before we have a coastal city
GreyFox
Make it so ...
I think we are better off going for copper city first ... this is Monarch, Cathy will build settler fast ... Hence the need for archer first.
If we go horse city first, yes, we can delay archery a bit.
Alternatively, we could delay the triangular structure, and builf one more settler to go for horse city and copper city simultaneously. That is also a better choice, as it gives us two cities producing units while thebes is tied up with pyramids.
--
If we go horse city first, yes, we can delay archery a bit.
Alternatively, we could delay the triangular structure, and builf one more settler to go for horse city and copper city simultaneously. That is also a better choice, as it gives us two cities producing units while thebes is tied up with pyramids.
--
Double Stack
Prince
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2005
- Messages
- 357
lurker's comment:: I noticed your discussion about losing tiles in the BFC is you have an overlap of another city. This can be remedied by going in the Capital city and clicking on the dark spots within the BFC once and you have control of those tiles. The other cities will then loses control and have a shaded over spot in the city screen.
No worries if you plan to put a city to get the fish, 2 cow, and the horse.
No worries if you plan to put a city to get the fish, 2 cow, and the horse.
namliaM
Deity
A city on that patch of dessert is #1 I think... .ChrTh said:
Masonry =>Potts => Writing?
If we want the mids, get it now after the settler.... Else forget about the mids... IMO... We are in thight as it is...
Maquis
King
I guess in this game I was thinking we want big cities and lots of land area. If we try for diplomacy, we will want as big of cities as possible.
bobrath
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2005
- Messages
- 1,238
I think blue dot is the essential second city - but only to deny the copper to Cathy. I'd prefer to settle red second in order to get the horses and because its closer - so less maint.
City overlap..... Nara was an extreme example (and one I will hate til my dying days of course). I've always like my early cities to be "clean" giving each one the best chance at growth and production. To me exchanging overlaping city tiles to pick up a resource... that we already have multiple of... well I think there are better ideas out there.
For instance, I'd move cyan dot one south. It still grabs the sugar but doesn't nab the rice. I can see using the rice for early growth on cyan and then giving it back to the capital in the later game.... IF we remember to do that of course AND the govenors don't get uppity.
City overlap..... Nara was an extreme example (and one I will hate til my dying days of course). I've always like my early cities to be "clean" giving each one the best chance at growth and production. To me exchanging overlaping city tiles to pick up a resource... that we already have multiple of... well I think there are better ideas out there.
For instance, I'd move cyan dot one south. It still grabs the sugar but doesn't nab the rice. I can see using the rice for early growth on cyan and then giving it back to the capital in the later game.... IF we remember to do that of course AND the govenors don't get uppity.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Ok, it sounds like we have a choice here:
1) Settle the horse city next, get our UU, and (likely) take Cathy to war.
2) Settle the copper city next, go for Pyramids, and wait until afterwards for war.
If we go with 2, we should probably get archery next because I think Cathy can't expand any further and may start a war before we're ready to build our UU.
****
In terms of maximizing city/population: tile overlap isn't actually a factor. In order to maximize your population the more tiles you can work, the more population you can have. Every 2F tile that can't be worked is equal to losing a population point--and this extends into the water as well.
I just wanted to point this out; I don't actually think we need to make sure that every tile is workable, especially since it hurts specialization of cities for production, etc. But if our goal is population maximization, then individual city size doesn't matter, all that matters is the total population.
1) Settle the horse city next, get our UU, and (likely) take Cathy to war.
2) Settle the copper city next, go for Pyramids, and wait until afterwards for war.
If we go with 2, we should probably get archery next because I think Cathy can't expand any further and may start a war before we're ready to build our UU.
****
In terms of maximizing city/population: tile overlap isn't actually a factor. In order to maximize your population the more tiles you can work, the more population you can have. Every 2F tile that can't be worked is equal to losing a population point--and this extends into the water as well.
I just wanted to point this out; I don't actually think we need to make sure that every tile is workable, especially since it hurts specialization of cities for production, etc. But if our goal is population maximization, then individual city size doesn't matter, all that matters is the total population.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Just saw GreyFox's comment about building 2 settlers before Pyramids ... I think we need to get Pyramids going asap if we're going to seriously try to get it. I would start on the Pyramids as soon as the settler is done (warrior is waiting for him in Thebes, or you can send him out for fogbusting ahead of time). Worker can do the quarry and then maybe 1 chop (I wouldn't chop more than that yet).
If we're more interested in going to war with Cathy now, though, I think the Pyramids should be skipped.
If we're more interested in going to war with Cathy now, though, I think the Pyramids should be skipped.
GreyFox
Make it so ...
First of all, screenshot failed. Usually I will restart, but reading that somehow the game will record all restarts, decided not to do that, as screenshots of a boring turnset is definitely not worth jeopardizing the VQ's currently-top-of-pack-score, right?
Secondly, decided to get the horse city first. I think even if Cathy settle blue dot, we will rushed her with Chariots anyway.
Thirdly, the scout died, landed on a wrong tile besides a barbarian warrior (near the horse city). But he is avenged by a warrior of our own, which latter aso killed one more barbie warrior.
Forthly, I did not start the Pyramids. Did not even bother to link up stones. If we want to UU rush, might as well do it correctly ... so, worker is sent up north after farming the rice to build pasture.
Fifthly, Memphis is built, right where red dot is.
Thebes is now building warrior. Will complete at the same time as Thebes grows to 5. Suggest getting a settler or a worker next. Settler if we want to go for blue dot. Worker if we want the pyramids.
edit: Forget to mention ... ... Masonry is in, I go for pottery.
My Notes
SGOTM's Session Log
Roster
Maquis
ChrTh
GreyFox == Just Played
Eektor == UP
namlaiM == On Deck
bobrath
>>> The Save (1900BC) <<<
Secondly, decided to get the horse city first. I think even if Cathy settle blue dot, we will rushed her with Chariots anyway.
Thirdly, the scout died, landed on a wrong tile besides a barbarian warrior (near the horse city). But he is avenged by a warrior of our own, which latter aso killed one more barbie warrior.
Forthly, I did not start the Pyramids. Did not even bother to link up stones. If we want to UU rush, might as well do it correctly ... so, worker is sent up north after farming the rice to build pasture.
Fifthly, Memphis is built, right where red dot is.
Thebes is now building warrior. Will complete at the same time as Thebes grows to 5. Suggest getting a settler or a worker next. Settler if we want to go for blue dot. Worker if we want the pyramids.
edit: Forget to mention ...
... Masonry is in, I go for pottery.My Notes
Spoiler :
SGOTM's Session Log
Spoiler :
Roster
Maquis
ChrTh
GreyFox == Just Played
Eektor == UP
namlaiM == On Deck
bobrath
>>> The Save (1900BC) <<<
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Does anyone else find that lone mountain-peak on the south coast odd? Why do I get the feeling that there's a close-by landmass that we can't see because the mountain is blocking our view? 
Also, the mountains on the east: there's water behind three of them; the fourth appears to be another mountain ... so it's possible there's a landmass (across water) over there as well that's being blocked from our view. I'm thinking a push towards Fishing/Sailing some point soon is not out of the question.
Also, the mountains on the east: there's water behind three of them; the fourth appears to be another mountain ... so it's possible there's a landmass (across water) over there as well that's being blocked from our view. I'm thinking a push towards Fishing/Sailing some point soon is not out of the question.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Good turns, GreyFox 
Pyramids will take about 30 turns (with stone online and one chop), so that's about 900 years so if we're going to go for it, I think we need to go soon.
EDIT: Whoops, my math is wrong. We can support ~15 hammers at size 5, so it'd be about 20 years.
Pyramids will take about 30 turns (with stone online and one chop), so that's about 900 years so if we're going to go for it, I think we need to go soon.
EDIT: Whoops, my math is wrong. We can support ~15 hammers at size 5, so it'd be about 20 years.
GreyFox
Make it so ...
20 years or 20 turns???
Personally, Pyramids is a nice to have, but not that crucial. I would go for BlueDot next to get copper online. Else, we need to go for IW ...
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Personally, Pyramids is a nice to have, but not that crucial. I would go for BlueDot next to get copper online. Else, we need to go for IW ...
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ChrTh
Happy Yule!
GreyFox said:20 years or 20 turns???
Personally, Pyramids is a nice to have, but not that crucial.
-
20 years realtime, so it'll be done in 2026.
I agree that it's not crucial, however, it would give us a heck of an early boost, it's just a matter of determining if the risk of attempting the boost is worth the death in production in Thebes.
GreyFox
Make it so ...
If we are going for the Pyramids, I would suggest building a worker and settler first. We need time to connect the quarry anyway. By then, Memphis would shape up to be a decent production house, with horses and cows. So, production won't get hurt that much. By having a settler, we can head for the bluedot, and hopefully beat cathy to it. If we miss the pyramids, at least the money will be useful in funding 100% research for longer time.
My personally preference is to forgo the pyramids and head straight for settler to claim bluedot. And pump up on chariots once horse is connected. It will deal with the barbs that are bound to appear, it will also prove useful to rush the Russians.
My personally preference is to forgo the pyramids and head straight for settler to claim bluedot. And pump up on chariots once horse is connected. It will deal with the barbs that are bound to appear, it will also prove useful to rush the Russians.
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