SGOTM 01 - V Q

[bobrath]

I say attack now so that Nara (I mean Yekaterinaburg) auto raizes. That's the former St. Pete site. She likes it better then the one I forced her into 1S of it for the obvious hill defense. It does bring horses into her fold and that has to be a driver.

Honestly, I'm all in favor of getting our own house in order. We're Creative which means we'll win the border war down there. We've got some great city sites in our backyard that will be less expensive then Cathy's TBC cities. Once we have iron hooked up, check to see if Cathy will trade for it (indicating she doesn't have it). If she doesn't have iron - and we can keep an eye out for boats - means we're free to leave her in the dust. Horses is just not the resource that iron/copper are.

Good stuff on getting the workboats out for exploring - our plans will obviously change once we know more.

@GreyFox - we're not going to discover/discuss something that will change your turns. Go for it!

 

[ChrTh]

Wait, so should we attack now or get our house in order?

 

[GreyFox]

Good point ... so, we have two choices:

(a) whip the hell out of our cities to get axeman and rush cathy

(b) wait for cats while deeloping out backyard

-

 

[ChrTh]

Good point ... so, we have two choices:

(a) whip the hell out of our cities to get axeman and rush cathy

(b) wait for cats while deeloping out backyard

-

I say wait for cats. The goal of the game isn't to eliminate Cathy, we need to start building infrastructure (and more cities) and be better prepared for the long term.

 

[bobrath]

Wait, so should we attack now or get our house in order?

My post was meant for the first part to be ....

and the rest to be the serious writeup. We've got Cathy well and truly locked up. Lets exploit our surroundings and get everything in order for our coming naval escapade. Remember she's got jungle surroundings - that's a long slog no matter what unit you've got.

 

[GreyFox]

unless we are mongolian and can ignore terrain movement cost ...

I am okay with both ... both has advantages and disadvantages ...

EDIT: ChrTh: I think you can play your turns ... definitely won't be playing tonight ... I will see what time I reach home tomorrow, you won't mind if I suddenly decide to play tomorrow, would you?

 

[ChrTh]

EDIT: ChrTh: I think you can play your turns ... definitely won't be playing tonight ... I will see what time I reach home tomorrow, you won't mind if I suddenly decide to play tomorrow, would you?

Not at all, just make sure you have the game back in 30 hours, because my window of opportunity before my out-of-pocket is very narrow.

 

[GreyFox]

Not at all, just make sure you have the game back in 30 hours, because my window of opportunity before my out-of-pocket is very narrow.

Nah, don't worry .. you don't need a very big window of opportunity to Just Press Enter ...

no, seriously, if I do jump in, it will definitely be later than 20hrs and within 24hrs from now (my night time).

--

 

[eektor]

We're Creative which means we'll win the border war down there.

Not necessarily, Cathy is creative too so we still need extra culture to compete.

I kind of like that city to be one south, but I guess we can keep it. Although that might cause bobrath to hate Yekatarinburg as much as Nara.

 

[Maquis]

that might cause bobrath to hate Yekatarinburg as much as Nara.

One requirement if we keep Yekatarinburg... it must be renamed to Nara Revisited.

 

[dot]

dot is definitely voting for renaming yekaterinburg to nara revisited.

 

[namliaM]

Wow, go to work one day and miss out on 2 pages... Geez... I hope there are some pics in there somewhere... Hard to keep track without CIV otherwize... Lets go see

@Dot I dont mind anything, (not even the rulez ) so your welcome by me...

Team one: Loss of people most likely

IBT: Ok... I must really be . Spear attacks where I had pillaged the road. Our warrior defends, and is smacked down. Damn... why I did not sue for peace?!?!

If thats the worst you can do Maquis... But then again, no one is going to beet mine I guess

Good screenies...

Take her gold, Fishing and Meditation for peace.

Gold? Can we get gold allready? I thought we needed currency for that? Judging by the pic, it wasnt much gold if any ....

We have iron! Already in borders, so workers start minimg right away.

Good Iron, that means Swords... How good are swords vs Archers?
Archers fortified in a city with 60% bonus.... 3 + 25% Forification + 25% Hill bonus + 50% city bonus + 60% = 160% = 7.5 or something? Ouch...
Sword = 6 + 10% city + 20% City Raider = 7.8
Should be a near 50% battle... That seems acceptable?
Seeing as we had some <50% battles with the WCs

She must REALLY want to expand our way. I have a feeling she can't go anywhere else.

Stuck in a rutt... I have noticed this from AI before... They will try to resettle the same spot over and over untill they can no longer due to culture....

So wait, did you give Cathy Alphabet?



EDIT: Well, whatever happened, Team One has recovered ...

What I thought probably whipped some people... But then I wasnt the only one... And its good... Dont want people grabbing the spoon allready

Cathy... how about I your ass instead??

Just guessing from the quote, Maquis didnt give up Alpha...

Need some new spoils of war to boost our economy!!

CoL is our friend I say... Shoot up the religious tree and get CoL ASAP...

EDIT: The answer to the 60% culture conundrum at Moscow is to take Moscow last, after we've eliminated any cities she might have past Moscow. That way, we're ok with suiciding a couple troops as it won't hurt us militarily since we'll have nothing left to conquer.

Sounds like a plan to me, plus our units would have had some more 'training'

Before we kill her off let's try to ask for some techs as tribute or even try to trade for some.

I wouldnt mind having cathy around in some pissant little town somewhere in exchange for Math or say currency and what other tech spins off Math? Calander I think?
That would mean:
1) Leaving cathy a town in the first place (other than moscow)
2) Giving her a chance to make friends. We should 'scout' around Cathy and make sure if she has any friends....

I dont think Cathy will trade with us anymore, only to pay for peace...

Good point ... so, we have two choices:
(a) whip the hell out of our cities to get axeman and rush cathy
(b) wait for cats while deeloping out backyard

I would probably go and take moscow (at a few losses probably) but then make peace for Math... Giving us a small breather of 10 turns after which we finish her...

I dont know about keeping Moscow, It is pretty far off and at 60% allready and no CoL to compensate a little. Maybe we could switch to a cheaper civic for a bit?
Representation is rater expensive is it not?

I say raze and rebuild Nara

 

[namliaM]

Wow team one really did spike back up... Did anyone notice CFR comming up in score? Do you suppose they got the Oracle? In either a CS or CoL Sling?

About turns beeing swapped

 

[bobrath]

btw, Team One has Mutineer on it and from my experience in Ruff-02, he's a whipping fiend (and a pretty good player). So its very likely that we're seeing a variance due to whipping and the save happening at just the right/wrong time.


Back to our game:
Can anyone put a good reason or set of reasons out there for going to war in the next 2-3 turnsets (30-45 turns)? I really think we need to spend those hammers on our lands and infrastructure rather then units to toss on Cathy's weapon points.

 

[eektor]

Here's one reason:

We are currently at 60% because we are in negative gold if we put science higher. My guess is that is because of the increase in the units we have while preparing for the war and during the war. If we finish off the Russians we wouldn't have to worry too much about military and lower our unit costs.

Another possible reason and that is if we are going for diplomacy, is if Catherine meets someone we might get stuck with the negative modifier you declared war on our friend. My guess is people should start visiting us soon from other continents.

 

[namliaM]

Thats 2 reasons how about a third?

Free tech, as in Math for example... I dont think we are in that bad a shape Financially...
Dont know how good we will be if we end up keeping moscow in the next 30 turns...

I think its a nice plan if we can get some swords and Axes around the back of moscow and take out a city down south... That may be enough for Cathy to give Math, together with yak...whatever... burg... Maybe we can "force" her to resettle again 1 south. At that point make peace and let her grow a bit again. Then finish....

I do most definatly agree, letting Cathy make to many (or even any) friends may make diplo a lost cause...

I wonder what the boat will uncover

 

[ChrTh]

We can't keep warring with Cathy without a real resolution. I think the next time we declare it's with the purpose of finishing her. Otherwise all we're doing is stunting our growth, and for what, a tech? It doesn't seem worth it imo. We need to finish her off and move on, or just ignore her.

 

[bobrath]

We are currently at 60% because we are in negative gold if we put science higher. My guess is that is because of the increase in the units we have while preparing for the war and during the war. If we finish off the Russians we wouldn't have to worry too much about military and lower our unit costs.

But picking up her cities will hit us with the maintenance. Unless we're going to disband uneeded units, we'll still have the cost for those units plus the distance based maintenance.

Another possible reason and that is if we are going for diplomacy, is if Catherine meets someone we might get stuck with the negative modifier you declared war on our friend. My guess is people should start visiting us soon from other continents.

This on the other hand does make sense. Makes me wonder, how quickly does someone become a "friend"? If we're the first to meet other civs - which makes sense because its doubtful Cathy will have boats any time soon, then we have a better chance of being ahead in the friendly race.


OR do we not want to meet anyone that we don't have to so that we don't have to deal with "you're dealing with that person!!!" negatives until the civs have sorted themselves out. Its easier to pick out our friend if the AIs have already decided they hate HC (for instance). Course if everyone ends up liking HC then we're boned on the diplomacy front.

 

[ChrTh]

But picking up her cities will hit us with the maintenance. Unless we're going to disband uneeded units, we'll still have the cost for those units plus the distance based maintenance.

It costs more to have units outside your borders. Once the units are within your borders (via the captured cities), their maintenance cost is reduced. But you're right, cities will lead to more costs as well.

 

[eektor]

But picking up her cities will hit us with the maintenance. Unless we're going to disband uneeded units, we'll still have the cost for those units plus the distance based maintenance.

That's true, but if we capture say Moscow. That city would hopefully be big enough to support itself and not affect us too much. The other cities are debatable and yeah I wouldn't want to just capture all the cities and let us get bogged down by maintenance costs.

Another thing is if we don't go to war with Cathy soon, I think we should put at least one if not two more cities up, so getting Moscow will be more helpful than building up our side of the continent.

As for Cathy not having boats, we did get fishing from her. We don't know how far down that tech line she went. Besides she seemed pretty much pinned down in land and might have wanted to get boats to get off the continent quickly.

I agree with ChrTh next time we declare war on Cathy we should finish her off.

As for techs how hard will it be to get a tech as tribute from the AI? I've never really had any success with that.

Edit: and yeah I was thinking of disbanding unneeded units if it came down to it.