SGOTM 01 - V Q

[eektor]

Wow, I come back to two pages and two great turn reports. You guys did great Maquis and ChrTh. This game is going to start getting interesting now, I think. I guess we would need about two turnset to build up our continent before we go to war?

@GreyFox - I tend to do battles with overwhelming odds of winning. I think Maquis proved me wrong about the 3:1 ration required. Wow a one to one ratio with only two suicide cats, I would never have guessed it.

About laurels, looking at the score I definitely think we are out of the race for the laurels. I don't care, I learned a lot in this game and it is fun. We still have the chance of becoming the first ones to finish and lets try to do that.

 

[Maquis]

First off, great turnset ChrTh! I knew you had it in you!

Now that one thorn is out of our side, I think we need to get our economy back in order ASAP. Also, let's try to keep the AI off our continent for good! Hopefully we can get on better terms with 'lil baldy...

We still have the chance of becoming the first ones to finish and lets try to do that.

Yes! We're really starting to pull away from most teams. It looks like a lot of teams are only playing 10-turn sets. Nothing wrong with 15 turns in epic I say!

Also, just so we're clear on just where the roster is:

Maquis - Obliterated forces at Moscow
ChrTh - Put the nail in Cathy's coffin
GreyFox - Up!
Eektor - On deck
namlaiM
bobrath

 

[GreyFox]

I wouldn't have guessed either, but frankly 3:1 is a bit of an overkill. Even with 9 longbows, would you seriously bring 27 swords? i think I would at most bring 12 swords with 5 cats.

I love those feline animals.

To hell with laurels. We would be the first to reach 50 pages and finish the game at the same time. Tell them what's the true meaning of VQ.

--

 

[dot]

I'll be helping with the 50 pages then

 

[namliaM]

@ GreyFox: Yours Faithfully ?????????

I think GreyFox was thinking of ... Yours Trully.... if my spelling is correct...

Meaning something like, ME....

Finaly cathy gone, now lets get Gandhi of our patch of land....

 

[GreyFox]

I think GreyFox was thinking of ... Yours Trully.... if my spelling is correct...

Meaning something like, ME....

Finaly cathy gone, now lets get Gandhi of our patch of land....

Heh, you used one 'l' when two are needed, and used two when one is correct

"Yours truly", "Yours faithfully", "Yours Sincerely" would all means the same.

--

Anyway, back to the game:

There's not a lot we can do abt Gandhi ... except to hope for a cultural flip. So, we should try to instead change it to our advantage. It drains him with distance, and it allows possible spread of religion to us. If we pump up our cultural pressure without first gaining the religion relationship bonus, we may end up with a border tension penalty.

I am more concerned with Huayna right now. I want him killed, fast. After courthouses, we need to map our research/tech-trading effort with that goal in mind. That will means caravels of our own, for defenses purposes.

Can our galleys use his cultural border at the sea tile to gain access to his land? If so, we can start preparing our navy.

We also need one or two settlers to settle some of the spots we missed in our original patch of land.

--

 

[dot]

There's not a lot we can do abt Gandhi ... except to hope for a cultural flip. So, we should try to instead change it to our advantage. It drains him with distance, and it allows possible spread of religion to us. If we pump up our cultural pressure without first gaining the religion relationship bonus, we may end up with a border tension penalty.

For pushing your culture - as I've already mentioned - drama might do the trick. I don't know how long it's going to take to research it though. Maybe some AI is trading it? Remember: You have double production speed for theatres!
Edit: The border tension penalty comes in like "Our closed borders are sparking tensions" iirc. So OB will do the trick ... i hope. But I'd absolutely agree on pushing culture and religion. But then again ... that's really just me

I am more concerned with Huayna right now. I want him killed, fast. After courthouses, we need to map our research/tech-trading effort with that goal in mind. That will means caravels of our own, for defenses purposes.

Caravels? That is Metal Casting > Machinery > (Compass via IW) > Optics. IIRC you don't have any of these techs right now? And Metal Casting is needing approx 1.3 times the that CoL does?!? I don't want to annoy anyone. Just playing the s advocate for now.

Can our galleys use his cultural border at the sea tile to gain access to his land? If so, we can start preparing our navy.

Well, that might work. But I don't know. Even if so ... wouldn't it work for HC, too?
And ... unless you have optics and therefore caravels won't HC be sinking all your galleys before your troops have any chance to land?

Enough of being the naysayer. I'm still here with you. I like the way you're playing. Because you are playing. Except for the start-up turns ... there was hardly any MM-ing.

I'm keen to see GreyFox' set of turns up ...

 

[GreyFox]

Don't keep your neck up waiting, I am still at work and won't touch Civ4 until 4 hrs later.

Thanks for the "naysaying", all kept in mind. My point is, is it really to our advantage to pump up our culture? Isn't it better to let things go on its own course, so that we are in better relationship with Gandhi before the border tension sets in?

Yes, we don't have any of those techs leading to Optics, which is why we must buckle up. Those are essentials. I am not saying I will build caravels in my turnset ... I 'm saying that's how we should proceed. We need it ASAP.

I was hoping that our cultural expansion at Giza and will create a bridge between Eygpt and Inca, then we can start ferrying troops over once we have caravels protection. One thing I am not sure is if we can use HC's cultural presence in a sea tile as a bridge. It is definitely a yes if it was a friendly cultural border. Not sure of an enemy's cultural border.

Thanks for the compliment, I'm not sure about the no MM'ing part though ... heh, I was the one who started the binary research crap.

--

EDIT: anybody noticed we have twice as much posts as any other team's thread, and almost equally as much views? Wow, to all the silent lurkers: thanlks for all the lurking!

 

[dot]

Don't keep your neck up waiting, I am still at work and won't touch Civ4 until 4 hrs later.

Good morning Germany ... it's ten o'clock ... and I'll get myself some breakfast soon

Thanks for the "naysaying", all kept in mind. My point is, is it really to our advantage to pump up our culture? Isn't it better to let things go on its own course, so that we are in better relationship with Gandhi before the border tension sets in?

With Theaters you can start going into for Great Artists. If you want to keep conquered cities later - for domination - 4000 points are quite a boost. Aren't they?
Edit: I had 'best friends' of which I flipped two cities ... and they were still best friends. No - for that iirc.

Yes, we don't have any of those techs leading to Optics, which is why we must buckle up. Those are essentials. I am not saying I will build caravels in my turnset ... I 'm saying that's how we should proceed. We need it ASAP.

See next comment

I was hoping that our cultural expansion at Giza and will create a bridge between Eygpt and Inca, then we can start ferrying troops over once we have caravels protection. One thing I am not sure is if we can use HC's cultural presence in a sea tile as a bridge. It is definitely a yes if it was a friendly cultural border. Not sure of an enemy's cultural border.

I've been doing some work on the WorldBuilder again. It is definitely possible to use sea tiles of friends as a bridge. Whereas it is definitely impossible to use enemy sea tiles as a bridge. If you want to do that ... you'll need to have your cultural D) borders to stretch to his coastal tiles. Therefore culture might be good for you. Also it will help your economy growing.
Besides: The gain in having caravels and galleys moving over to him with mazemen and crossbows and facing - assumingly - grenadiers will be ... ... let's say ... ... debatable?

Thanks for the compliment, I'm not sure about the no MM'ing part though ... heh, I was the one who started the binary research crap.

I do MM-ing myself early in the game. Like starting buildings - interrupting them for units - etc. But that vanished in yours with every set of turns. That's what I wanted to point out as pleasant.

 

[dot]

The last screenshot that covered all of your cities was submitted by bobrath (page 22; post #425). Thebes has been your biggest city (size 7). Since then you have discovered calendar which is giving you access to quite some sugar which you might be able to trade. But you are already big in trading. Edit:

If I got most of your comments right you're still cities. ... Meaning to pop-rush them?
If so ... this is putting the growth of economy to a halt ... I'm referring only to my experience. But you've got the Mids. Why don't you pick up Universal Suffrage? You can rush less of your production ... all right. But your cities will be able to grow !!! And this means more cottages will be worked, you're economy is growing ... and since you've got religion in your 'VQly expanding kingdom' this means again one more

Once you've got the economy coddled up - and spread - you can change to OR and get your buildings all done faster.

I know that this is probably going to take until AD 15sth - but won't you need backup from your homelands when you want to start warring with 'the world'? Remember: Every extra-territorial unit needs support...

I'm not sure whether this is making any sense to you all. Neither am I sure whether it is consistent enough.

If you have any questions or corrections or comments ... they're all very welcome

I may not have mentioned it, but CoL came in at the end of my turns... we should be building courthouses as soon as we can (once Cathy is gone... 3 turns maybe?) and build the Forbidden Palace. My vote would be in Moscow.

Oh ... and I definitely agree on getting courthouses and the FC up asap. It seems a very good idea to build the FC in Moscow.

 

[GreyFox]

Re: UniSuff, I think its not effective for us at the moment. Any excess gold we have I would rather spend it on deficit research. So representation it remains.

OR is definite.

I will continue to whip ... but only selected cities. I am not convinced whipping will have any adverse effect on economy, not if you whip smartly. For instance, if you can grow back the whipped pop faster than you can build the building without whipping, then i would say whipping is the better choice.

So for cities with multiple food resources, it is good to whip.

-

 

[ChrTh]

A couple notes from while I was sleeping:

It is "yours truly", at least in American english "yours faithfully" doesn't mean the same thing.

We're in no means out of the race for the laurels. Remember, it's not the highest score that wins, it's the quickest victory. As I've said earlier, after taking Cathy everybody is going to plateau while waiting for Astronomy. Cyrus and HC can not be reached with galleys, because as dot mentioned, it has to be your cultural borders on the sea tile, not theirs. And yes, I'm positive TPTB did this on purpose. That's why the mountains are there, to prevent you from putting a city close enough to culture bomb the water.

We're already Hindu via our conquest of Yakutsk. When Yakutsk comes out of revolt, switch to OR and build a Missionary and convert Thebes (Civil Service should be in by then and thus you'll be able to switch Thebes from Research to Hindu Missionary spamming).

Review my notes about trading Civil Service from the end of my turnlog.

EDIT: Can we get a galley down to Cyrus' lands so we can explore? Or do we fear the Caravel too much?

 

[Maquis]

Cyrus and HC can not be reached with galleys

If we get OB with Cyrus, we can then move galleys into his cultural waters... correct?

 

[ChrTh]

If we get OB with Cyrus, we can then move galleys into his cultural waters... correct?

Yes. 5 6 7 8 9 10

 

[eektor]

Ok, let's see.

It is "yours truly", at least in American english "yours faithfully" doesn't mean the same thing.

They do not mean the same thing, but they can both be used to say me. I've seen people use both in writing.

As dot mentioned we need our culture border to reach up to the Incans. Unfortunately I found that out the hard way in one of my games. I lost contact with cities on another continent because I declared war on a civ that was in between.

We need astronomy. Caravels don't carry military units. We need galleons.

I agree with GreyFox. Universal Suffrage would not help us right now. The reason we are pop rushing is because our cities are still limited to a certain number by happiness. Although once we spread Hinduism around we should be able to grow our cities bigger.

Once Civil Service comes in, we might want to switch to Bureacracy.

Edit: I forgot to mention. @GreyFox When other civs have longbowmen, I usually have at least macemen if not knights. So, I'm not used to taking them out with swordsmen.

 

[Maquis]

I agree with the civics change. Bureacracy will be a big help, as Thebes will be raking in the $$ with the cotteges on the FP.

Staying in Representation would be a no-brainer as well. We need the in our cities.

 

[ChrTh]

Staying in Representation would be a no-brainer as well. We need the in our cities.

I'm not sure. We only get the 2 in 5 cities (iirc) ... if we switched to Hereditary Rule, we can get 1 per troops in every city ... the cost would be lower, we could shift troops as needed (or build cheap War Chariots). The only downside is the lack of ... however, we're not running any specialists now anyway.

 

[eektor]

I agree with ChrTh about switching to hereditary rule for That is unless we plan on getting some specialists then I would say we can stay in representation.

 

[Maquis]

Also, with our economy in the state it is currently (not well!) not sure if we want to be in HR with its higher upkeep cost...

 

[ChrTh]

Also, with our economy in the state it is currently (not well!) not sure if we want to be in HR with its higher upkeep cost...

True, plus the additional per-unit cost. It really depends on how much unhappiness you're facing and which works out better.