SGOTM 01 - V Q

[namliaM]

Since no one else looked, I did:

The answer ... is No.

She offcourse could have contact with people we havent met yet....

WChariots vs Spears = Not pretty...
@Greyfox, I dont think we are currently at peace yet....
I would make peace for Fishing & Misticism, then on turn 10 when we have some Axemen along. Trade for Math (with alpha) and whipe cathy of the map...

Hmz, Are those mines I see on the gems and Hill? Pillage pray that is...

On research, CoL is pretty high up on the list! But getting the great ones (lib and Lighthouse) could be nice...
But agree we need some settlers soon. Atleast 1 for the fishing town east, and one for the copper where ever that may be.

Re-dotmap anyone?

 

[GreyFox]

As requested:

I see we are still at war, my mistake.

If next player can take out Moscow, take it (and this time, please keep it). Else, I suggest taking Cathy's peace offer (at least we get something out of this war) and start building axes. Combined with WC, we can re-delcare later and kill Cathy once and for all.

I don't think we can re-declare 10 turns later. The key to winning war is to be prepared (war is won in preparation, as I always say). We weren't fully prepared this time, mainly due to the opportuinity arising for grabbing the settler.

For the next war, IMHO, we need to bring a stack of at least 5 axemans (to kill the spears), 2 archers (to protect the captured cities), and whatever WChariots we have left to finish off Cathy. I would refrain from declaring until we have that stack.

To do that, blue dot is obviously the key. I won't put green dot as priority, it is not going anywhere.

--

 

[dot]

Hey there.

I used to be a civ addict. But I ain't anymore. If you ask why or how ... it hasn't been civanon or something alike ... I just changed the subject of my addiction.

Now I'm addicted to the VQ Discussion Thread of the SGOTM.

You're funny, I think you're doing a good job and I want you to win.

Greetings from Europe, Dot

 

[eektor]

@ saint1979 and dot Thanks for your support.

As for research, I think sailing and later on Astronomy is important, but I think we need CoL more. We want to get all our territory and cities set up before others start putting cities on our continent.

We definitely should take Moscow before we make peace. Otherwise this war didn't do us any good without any captured cities. I agree with nam for the techs to extort and then trade before we go to war again to take the last city.

As for the dot map, blue dot is nice with the isthmus and all. But, it misses out on the two gems. Those gems could make an awesome science or gold city.

The blue dot imo should be the first we should go for, then the green dot.

 

[Maquis]

Alright, looks like I'm up! I want to hear a little discussion about Moscow... should we try to take it before peace (as eektor mentioned)? I haven't looked at the save yet, so I have no idea on the size of our forces. It would also depend on what Cathy's got for defense. If I see spears, I don't know that we want to throw more lambs to the slaughter?

I also wanted to say I agree with razing St. Pete (and Yarl) I think that we NEED to have that city placed at Blue Dot. Making a canal might be huge in this game to ferry ships across... so I expect to have it settled in my turnset.

 

[bobrath]

Our southern forces:
4 WCs - not all healed, most double promoted.
1 Warrior - double promoted

My feeling is that taking Moscow would be a major reach for us. The only reason I was able to take St. Pete was that Cathy retreated half her force there (I'm guessin to escort a settler). I had a 2.5:1 advantage in numbers and was only able to take the city with my last WC (warrior in reserve if that failed). Its just plain ugly how badly spears take apart *double promoted* WCs.

The only reason I didn't take peace was for the chance to fully explore/pillage her lands. If Maquis thinks that he can't safely get around Moscow (to the SE), then take peace now. The force I have on the isthmus will hold against a small stack, but won't be able to hold back a real force. Once that is broken... we're looking at single warrior defenders in our two (and a half) towns. I'd suggest sending a single WC through her lands to see what Moscow has and decide from there. Remember we're talking Jungle pretty much everywhere and that's going to favor her now.

[evil builder mode] This is almost the layout I'd make to encourage and then defeat an early rush. You can move quickly to an isthmus but then her real meat is protected by terrain that slows you and hides her counter attacks. [/evil builder mode]

I turned our two cities off war footing and onto infrastructure because I think a continuing war is unacceptable (btw Memphis has some WW causing its unhappy) - both to us and our people. We've cleared out enough breathing room for our creative trait to flourish. Lets get our cities multiplying and growing. Don't plan on a war in 10 - plan on a win.

 

[GreyFox]

@Dot: , pretty honored to have you de-lurk and post your first post in the VQ thread! Thanks for the support!

I also wanted to say I agree with razing St. Pete (and Yarl) I think that we NEED to have that city placed at Blue Dot. Making a canal might be huge in this game to ferry ships across... so I expect to have it settled in my turnset.

I would humbly beg to differ. St-Pete is not stopping you from settling blue dot (the new one). There is just a significant overlap, but that is inconsequential. This is not VQ-02. IMHO, worrying about BFC-overlap is a mistake. I have already mentioned why I think so a few pages ago.

St-Pete is a decent city with gems and horses. So what if the cities have big overlap? just let it be. You know how many turns it is to build a settler, move it to st-Pete, rebuilt a city, and let it grow to size 5? And in all those turns, the amount of commerce brought in by St Pete would be worth more a tech or 2 already!!!

Cathy forces ready to re-take St-Pete is an acceptable reason to raze St-Pete, but not BFC-overlap.

So, please, don't raze moscow because it missed the gems. If you want the gems, just put a city in between Moscow and bluedot.

-

 

[bobrath]

I do agree *gasp* with GreyFox on our (my?) over concern with BFC overlaping. I really wanted to keep St. Pete. Epic speed means getting a new settler out with an escort isn't the fastest thing. Taking another civ's work would be a huge boost. Assuming we can afford to hold it (militarily and financially). I almost thought about letting Yarsolov be so that we could cap it once it grew to size 2. Cathy had nicely moved the city one south for us. If I'd done more pillaging/searching of Cathy, I would have done that. Taken peace and let our two new cities fight it out culturally.

We obviously need to close the ithsmus and blue dot will do that nicely so it makes sense to found it next. Lets get the most return out of Cathy that we can. If I were playing this solo, my turn 19/20 is when I probobaly would have taken peace. I chose to wait to give the group a chance to discuss how hard they wanted to push.

 

[Maquis]

I understand that we don't mind if there is overlap in the BFC. I don't either. My point in the post was that Blue Dot creates a canal between the east and west. I was under the impression that we could not settle Blue Dot with St Pete there... looking at the screens again, that assumtion may have been wrong.


Anyways, back to where we go from here... Sounds like the best plan is to sue for peace at this time, and get a little buildup before trying to take on Moscow. I will try to peek at the city, but I assume it is well defended.

 

[namliaM]

I would say, peace for now. Then take out "the rest of Russia" going around (and pillaging the hell out off) Moscow. Maybe peace once more for Math or something usefull.

Only then take out Cathy...

Tech, now that we have the space... We will want to prioritize CoL so we can make use of said space...

 

[bobrath]

Oh, one thing I noticed but didn't add to my writeup: One of the shadows SW of Moscow is rather tall - as in mountain top tall. You can see it if you mouse wheel down near the southern edge of our fog of war by Moscow. Made me wonder if the AI has a wall of mountains much as we do...

 

[ChrTh]

She offcourse could have contact with people we havent met yet....

Of course. The concern was that we'd take Moscow and then find ourselves being overrun by Incan swords from beyond her border--any other Civ, in theory, we'd be at peace with. The 'always war' gives us an advantage: we automatically see contact links with a Civ we haven't met yet. So every Civ we run into should be checked to see "What They Think About ... Huyana Capac", it's important for strategic planning purposes to know when we're about to run into the Incas.

 

[dot]

Hum, I don't understand why some civplayers obviously care so much about an overlap. I figuered out that BFC (whatever that is an acronym for ) is the 21 tiles that can be worked in a city. In a game i'm running right now - though on prince - I recently founded Nara.

Sorry, had to pick that name.

The tiles are mostly desert. But having an engineer from the mids and blowing up the sistine chapel in it caused kublai to come up with some two dozens of elephants an crossbowmen.

I think, that a bad spot does not necessarily mean its a bad idea to settle there. But thats just my opinion.

@greyfox: the pleasure was mine

 

[bobrath]

BFC = Big Fat Cross

For some purists (like me) having overlapping BFCs just to bring all named resources into a city's cross is plain foolish. It really comes down to finding city sites that work and having a plan for a city when you found it.

 

[eektor]

@ dot - Good choice in city name, bobrath loves that city.

About the war, I just made some observations without looking at the save. If the situation is bad in Moscow it would be better to make peace. Although please try to pillage the copper source or iron source if you can. If you don't see any then pillage every mine and hope we pillaged the one that had iron

Of course this might be too late anyways.

 

[GreyFox]

@Maquis: do as the situation demands (a) peace if Moscow has a spear; (b) tale Moscow if you are confident. Meanwhile, pillage a bit

So are we going 15 turns each this round?

--

 

[eektor]

(b) tale Moscow if you are confident.

How do you do this? Surround the city and bore them to death with your stories until they surrender?

 

[GreyFox]

It took me a full minute to grasp what you mean ... ... TAKE. I mean. Well, tale is okay too, if it works ...

 

[Maquis]

Turns are played, and save has been submitted. I'll have my full report up in about an hour...

 

[dot]

@bobrath: thanx for the BFC Info. Even though my question didn't really match with the topic of this forum.

btw: are comments from non-team-members on the strategy of the game
i) allowed (@alanh) ... and if so
ii) welcome by the vq (@vq) ???

Waiting to see wether maquis did tell stories to moscow or not ...

good humor you have. wkr, dot