SGOTM 01 - V Q

ChrTh · May 28, 2006

Talking about Pi Rammeses, we should lay of the whip there for a bit... 45 turns for the whip to fade there is just way overdone I think....

... wow, I didn't even whip it in my turn.

Ok, here's what I'm thinking about ending the game. This is a rough outline, and probably won't be what we do, but I thought I'd get it out there so we can start discussing.

1) Finish HC (obviously)
2) Sign a DP with Gandhi
3) Beeline to Communism (trade Chemistry around to move forward; I suspect Gandhi is going to work towards Liberalism so we should do a two-round trade with it, first round with Cyrus or FDR, and second round with Gandhi)
4) See if you can make Cyrus and/or FDR chummier
5) Get the PA with Gandhi
6) Beeline to Mass Media with Gandhi (go see n0x-02 about double-player research) and build UN; Sec-Gen should be easy win for us combined
7) Win a Diplomatic Victory

Note: Gandhi will likely be our opponent in a UN Vote therefore a PA is essential

An alternative is:
6) Eliminate Cyrus
7) Invade Saladin and take as much as you need for the domination victory

ChrTh · May 28, 2006

I also want to throw this out now for the team.

8) Replay SGOTM with the variant rule that we can not attack Cathy (if she attacks us the most we can take is one city) :groucho:

Since we're going to be done so much sooner than the rest of the teams, I think we should ask AlanH if we can do a "does not count towards the Golden Laurels" second go-round. I'd be interested to see what that variant rule does to the results of the game.

Obviously voluntary, and dot you're welcome to join us if we do it

EDIT: Maybe TPTB will give us a save where Cathy is Always Peace instead of Gandhi

GreyFox · May 28, 2006

namliaM said:
Talking about Pi Rammeses, we should lay of the whip there for a bit... 45 turns for the whip to fade there is just way overdone I think....

Disagree ... just treat it as if Pi-Rammesses has an inherent one less happiness. The whipping don't accumulate, they only concatenate. So I don't see why we should spare the whip. 45 turns? so be it. I couldn't care less even if it is 450 turns.
For that matter, where is the Globe Theatre built?

ChrTh said:
wow, I didn't even whip it in my turn.

Then I shall whip it doubly more to make up for it ... :lol:

EDIT: or maybe I shall not ... it has lost its two fishing nets ... damned pirates!

namliaM said:
Huamanga on the other hand seems to be a size 6 money drain to us... It will never grow beyond size 7 and is worth nothing. Even looking up close at it....

Good point. So that means I should get a settler ready ...

namliaM said:
P.S. I betya that GreyFox cannot finish HC in his turnset ...

and I betya namliaM won't get to have fun with HC

ChrTh said:
1) Finish HC (obviously)
2) Sign a DP with Gandhi
3) Beeline to Communism (trade Chemistry around to move forward; I suspect Gandhi is going to work towards Liberalism so we should do a two-round trade with it, first round with Cyrus or FDR, and second round with Gandhi)
4) See if you can make Cyrus and/or FDR chummier
5) Get the PA with Gandhi
6) Beeline to Mass Media with Gandhi (go see n0x-02 about double-player research) and build UN; Sec-Gen should be easy win for us combined
7) Win a Diplomatic Victory

Note: Gandhi will likely be our opponent in a UN Vote therefore a PA is essential

An alternative is:
6) Eliminate Cyrus
7) Invade Saladin and take as much as you need for the domination victory

Good plan, I like the alternative better, but why Cyrus first? Cyrus' land is so pitifully tiny ... as an alternative to your alternative, I will go after Saladin first. Saladin alone might be enough to win us domination.

-

ChrTh · May 28, 2006

GreyFox said:
For that matter, where is the Globe Theatre built?

It's not.

Good plan, I like the alternative better, but why Cyrus first? Cyrus' land is so pitifully tiny ... as an alternative to your alternative, I will go after Saladin first. Saladin alone might be enough to win us domination.

-

He might, I just thought we'd want to take out the easier, closer neighbor first if we were going domination. I guess Saladin first would be fine.

EDIT: BTW, according to the plan, we're going to heading for SciMeth pretty quickly (iirc it's straight on the path to Communism). We'll want to get Monasteries up and running beforehand.

Techs we need:
Printing Press
Education
Liberalism
SciMeth

By the time we get Chemistry, I imagine Gandhi will have gotten Liberalism. We should try to trade Chemistry for the first three; since Education is a pre-req for Liberalism, you'll need to make trades in 2 rounds, which, of course, is risky since the Liberalism Civ might get Chemistry from whomever you traded it the previous turn. But I think we're looking at SciMeth in 20-30 turns, so we have a limited window to build monasteries.

namliaM · May 29, 2006

GreyFox said:
Disagree ... just treat it as if Pi-Rammesses has an inherent one less happiness. The whipping don't accumulate, they only concatenate. So I don't see why we should spare the whip. 45 turns? so be it. I couldn't care less even if it is 450 turns.
For that matter, where is the Globe Theatre built?

It doesnt add up? Huh? I thought it did...

GreyFox said:
Good point. So that means I should get a settler ready ...

Huh? I would have never expected you GreyFox of all people to agree with that!?!?! :confused:

GreyFox said:
and I betya namliaM won't get to have fun with HC

I am aiming to not have a military set in this SGOTM...

GreyFox said:
Good plan, I like the alternative better, but why Cyrus first? Cyrus' land is so pitifully tiny ... as an alternative to your alternative, I will go after Saladin first. Saladin alone might be enough to win us domination.

Cyrus and Gandhi are good friends... We have to be carefull there, or can we handle the -1 You Dowed a friend?
Maybe we should simply as Gandhi to DoW his friend and us joining in but doing nothing. More land for gandhi. If we do go after Cyrus, take note that we will be under presure from Gandhi and his 22% will grow considerably...

Saladin next seems right to me... We can load a S**t-load of troops allready onto american soil and take Saladin easy like. Then turn around and use the same troops on FDR.
Again FDR is buddies with Gandhi, IIRC. So we either need to spoil that relationship or handle the -1

With or without the PA I think we need Saladin land and either Cyrus and/or a part of FDR to hit Domination limit... Once HC is down to 2 cities we really need to start thinking about infra and starting to ship our force from HC country to FDR country....

ChrTh · May 29, 2006

FDR will trade with us. We should hit Saladin before we hit FDR.

@GreyFox: I think namliaM is right about whipping. For each whip, you get 1 :mad:

... if a whip happens before a previous whip faded, it has concatenated turns, but cumulative :mad:

For example:
Whip, get :mad:

for 15 turns (on epic)
If you whip again in 10 turns, you'll get an :mad:

for 20 turns in addition to the :mad:

that still has 5 turns to wear off.
If you don't whip again, it looks like this
Turns 1-10: :mad:

Turns 11-15: :mad:

Turns 16-30: :mad:

Cosmichail · May 29, 2006

Just a lurker here and enjoying your strategy. I looked at your most recent game 1580ad and I don't know if you noticed but Saladin and FDR have a DP in place. That might make it hard to go to war with Saladin since using FDR's land wouldn't be feasible. Go for it and finish off that HC...... Good luck

GreyFox · May 29, 2006

ChrTh said:
@GreyFox: I think namliaM is right about whipping. For each whip, you get 1 ... if a whip happens before a previous whip faded, it has concatenated turns, but cumulative

Yes, yes, but at the same time you will have one (or more) less pop = one less :mad:

... so effect is its not accumulative ...

Anyway problem will be solved after we built the globe theatre. Anyone has better place to built it? Speak now or forever hold your piece.

--

Hello, Cosmichall! :eek:

I did not notice any DP between Saladin and FR ... that complicates things.

--

ChrTh .. one question: do you ever sleep?

ChrTh · May 29, 2006

GreyFox: Of course! I was just up late last night (it's a holiday in the States today)

~~...my question to you is, I thought you were going to play "this morning"?~~ never mind, your last word was 'tomorrow' ... waiting patiently

YIKES, DP bt Saladin and FDR?!? :eek:

... that changes things big time. Unless we can bribe FDR to cancel the DP.

GreyFox · May 29, 2006

Its not a holiday on this side of the world, so I can only play at night ...

Playing soon ... report in 3 hrs.

Any last words before I charged headlong and fearlessly into battle?

-

eektor · May 29, 2006

I was going to say let's go after Saladin next, but if he has a DP with FDR that is no good. (Funny how a lurker points this out and we didn't know this. Thanks, Cosmichail)

Maybe we should try to bring FDR into the war with HC, that would cancel the DP and we would have the chance to take down Saladin next.

namliaM · May 29, 2006

I offcourse allready knew this :mischief:

Saladin is very hard to please, I cannot beleive he is friends with FDR dispite the close border tension...

Anyhoo, We should start demanding some tribute from him. Lets start with his Lump gold and if he gives we get $$$ and -1 (maybe he declare on us?) and if not then only -1 (maybe he declare on us?)

Win - Win I say...

GreyFox · May 29, 2006

Turns played, now I face the daunting task of processing 19 screenshots ... :sad:

Oh, without reading namliaM's suggestion, I did demand that Saladin pay us 7gpt as tribute .... you know what they say ... something about Great minds ... or is it Grey mind?

ETA of report: 1 hr.

namliaM · May 29, 2006

ONLY 19?? Small for you... aegerly waiting

GreyFox · May 29, 2006

First off, let's check if the brilliant plan of getting Roosy to attack HC will work:

Nope, sorry!

That means more pillage for us.

--

The Battle for Cuzco

Damned, the RNGod must be angry with me for delaying the sequel to Fox02.

The defenders at Cuzco

Piece of cake, right?

WRONG!

First of all, I suicided 3 catapults. I have never fail to withdraw at least one when I suicided 3 cats ... meow meow meow .. until NOW! :aargh:

3 dead cats!!!

Damned!

But I should have enough troops to take Cuzxo ... right?

Wrong again!

SGOTM-Logger said:
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Combat Odds: 96.7%
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ's Knight is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ's Knight is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ's Knight is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ's Knight is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Longbowman is hit for 23 (47/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ's Knight is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ's Knight is hit for 16 (4/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: VQ's Knight is hit for 16 (0/100HP)
Turn 332, 1586 AD: Huayna Capac's Longbowman has defeated VQ's Knight!

Damned!!!! What horsehockey luck!

I have no choice but to delay the attack, because if you look at the picture above, there is a crossbowman looming around. I could take Cuzco, but that will leave me with only one cat that can move into the city and the last attacker which took the city. Given my @#$%^ luck, I don't want to lose Cuzco the next turn and have to tear down the defenses from scratch again.

Thus, the RNG cheated me of one turn and finally:

The Battle for Ollan-whatever

12 years later, its time to take the other city north of Cuzco ....

Aagin, standard procedure is to tear down the defenses and suicide a couple of cats .... meow meow!

And Geez, today is not my day. Two more dead felines!!!!

To rub salt some more ...

SGOTM-Logger said:
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Combat Odds: 82.8%
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: (City Attack: -75%)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: VQ's Maceman is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: VQ's Maceman is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: VQ's Maceman is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: VQ's Maceman is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Huayna Capac's Longbowman is hit for 21 (59/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: VQ's Maceman is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Huayna Capac's Longbowman is hit for 21 (38/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: VQ's Maceman is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 337, 1601 AD: Huayna Capac's Longbowman has defeated VQ's Maceman!

But, this time I have more than attackers, and Ollantay-whatever is ours ...

-- To Be Continued --

GreyFox · May 29, 2006

Oh, did I mention I extorted 7gpt from Saladin?

Look at how pitiful he look!

The Pre-Emptive Strike

It was time to move eastward, and after loading troops from Cuzco into galleons ... this is what I found ...

Hmmm ... now, where do you think you are going?

Something must be seriously wrong with the AI. Yes, they will not forfiet everything and build only military when they are at war, unlike Civ3. That's suppose to be smarter ... but comeone, when you ar elosing cities one by one, and gettiong your a$$ colossally whipped, you don't try to sneak a settler pass the front and attempt to settle where the battle was!

Lucky for HC, my galleons are just loaded, so I would not take a 50% chance to attempt to sink his galleon. So, I let it pass.

But now RNGof is finally feeling abit remorse and guilty about my previous harsh combat luck. Next turn, I moved a caravel to the island, hald expecting to see the galleon somewhere there ...

and :eek:

my caravel head straigt to where the galleon was and the naval combat begins before I can say "Holy Sh!t".

SGOTM-Logger said:
Turn 338, 1604 AD: VQ's Caravel (3.00) vs Huayna Capac's Galleon (4.40)
Turn 338, 1604 AD: Combat Odds: 12.0%
Turn 338, 1604 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 338, 1604 AD: Huayna Capac's Galleon is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 338, 1604 AD: Huayna Capac's Galleon is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 338, 1604 AD: VQ's Caravel is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 338, 1604 AD: VQ's Caravel is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 338, 1604 AD: Huayna Capac's Galleon is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 338, 1604 AD: Huayna Capac's Galleon is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 338, 1604 AD: VQ's Caravel is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 338, 1604 AD: Huayna Capac's Galleon is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 338, 1604 AD: Huayna Capac's Galleon is hit for 16 (4/100HP)
Turn 338, 1604 AD: VQ's Caravel is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 338, 1604 AD: Huayna Capac's Galleon is hit for 16 (0/100HP)
Turn 338, 1604 AD: VQ's Caravel has defeated Huayna Capac's Galleon!
Turn 338, 1604 AD: Your Caravel has destroyed a Galleon!

... feeling much better!

So that's where you are hiding, eh?

Moved my galloen, and attack already! And whoa, my cavalry has a cloaking device!

--

The Burning of Huamanga

As the final battle of my turnset ... the Incan version of Nara city that was pinpointed by namliaM was burned to ground ...

--

[/u]Some Notes[/u]

- Two remaining Incan cities:

See the crossbowman up north? Well, I :smoke:

and move too eagerly towards the northeast city with only 1 maceman and 2 catapults. They were killed by the Incans, with only 1 cat surviving and routed.

So, suggest the next player to move troops in Ollan-whatever using Galleons. Alternatively, you can wait for the southern forces to take the south city (should be piece of cake, since the RNGod used all His holy fury against me, you should have better luck).

We have Chemistry, but I spend all our gold pursuing it. So, you may not be able to make some trades (for example Printing Press). Here are my preliminary market research:

- You can try to do what ChrTh suggested on tech trading (are you sure we have to wait 1 turn? Why can't we trade our newly traded tech during the same turn?). If so, I suggest you accumulate some gold first, since some of the techs are more expensive than Chemistry.

- Alternatively, you can try and use Chemistry to get Rosy to declare on HC.

- I have started to shift gear from military builds to infrastructure builds, so switch out of military civics when you deem appropriate.

Spoiler My Incomplete Manual Log :

Spoiler SGOTM-Extractor :

>>> The Save (1610AD) <<<

ChrTh · May 29, 2006

Why can't we trade our newly traded tech during the same turn?

That's not what I mean. If Gandhi has Liberalism (he might not), you can't trade for Education and Liberalism the first turn, since Education is a pre-req. You have to wait one turn before you can try to trade for Liberalism.

The key ones to trade for are Education and Printing Press. Since Cyrus only has 2 techs (while FDR and Gandhi have 5), we should be able to 2-fer with Cyrus for Printing Press. I see no reason why we can't get all 5 techs with Chemistry (unless it's cheaper?).

BTW, great work, GreyFox, despite the RNG God's reticence. :worship:

EDIT: Printing Press is fewer beakers than Chemistry, so we probably won't need to 2-fer. However, I would trade with FDR and Cyrus first before trading with Gandhi, just in case he has a later tech that we just got a pre-req for.

namliaM · May 29, 2006

Nicely done on picking up the extra worker

Lets keep demanding on Saladin, maybe he gets fed up with us...

When trading with Gandhi, try for a DP. Tho if we do have that DP, Saladin is even less likely to start anything...

Is there a settler 'en route' to replace Huamanga?

IMHO we should switch out of war civics ASAP, to start re-build our economy at least a little...

eektor · May 29, 2006

Nice job GreyFox, and you gave me the chance to finish HC off too!

Do you guys want me to stop my turns when HC is finished off?

I will try to use Chemistry to get as many techs as possible with emphasis on getting Education and Printing Press, then Banking. I will try to finish HC.

I haven't looked at the save yet. Even though we do celebrate Memorial Day (at least the government, bank, and post office people are off), I still work, so I'll check the save when I get home and play tonight.

ChrTh · May 29, 2006

namliaM said:
When trading with Gandhi, try for a DP. Tho if we do have that DP, Saladin is even less likely to start anything...

We can't DP with Gandhi until the war is over. That said, the SECOND that we eliminate HC, get a DP with Gandhi. Right now we're +14 with him, but +6 is due to Religion. If he goes Free Religion after getting Liberalism, it'll be harder (but not impossible) to get the DP.

Saladin and FDR are quite the pickle. If they PA, we can't win Diplomatic I think because they'll vote for themselves and that will probably be enough to prevent us from winning (even with Cyrus' votes). Working on the theory that the mods are evil, I bet that Saladin and FDR are buddy-buddy and will PA as soon as they can. In other words, war with Saladin (and a phony war with FDR) may need to take place as soon as we finish HC.

@eektor: Yes, I would say we need to pause and ~~argue violently~~ figure out our strategy for the remainder of the game after HC is put to rest.

SGOTM 01 - V Q

Happy Yule!

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Deity

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Dark Lord of The Sith

Make it so ...

Happy Yule!

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Prince

Deity

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Deity

Make it so ...

Make it so ...

Happy Yule!

Deity

Prince

Happy Yule!

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