SGOTM 01 - V Q

[GreyFox]

Edit: corrected numerous grammar mistakes, and uncountable spelling errors ... told you guys to get a native-writer!

More Edit: corrected even more grammatical mistakes and typographical errors, and added some more text in the begining.

Yet More Edit: added our "debate on initial Thebes site" as suggested by ChrTh.

Final Edit: Spoiler Posted.

 

[Cosmichail]

Greyfox,

You have a witty sense of humour. Enjoyed your spoiler and well said. I agree as ChrTh, that giving away astronomy for 230 would be a waste. Making a demand might work considering how strong VQ is. I think that what Toastedzergling stated sounds right. I got a PA in second position with a party in the third position.

Here's something to think about which crossed my mind. What happens if FDR signs a DP with Ghandi. What would happen if you declared on FDR whilst he was in a DP with Ghandi. Would Ghandi declare war even if he is set to permanent peace? I think attacking Saladin is prudent since Chemistry was given to FDR to break the DP's with Cyrus/Saladin. Not declaring on Saladin would be for nothing. I think you would have to strike immediately as it is likely DP's will be signed shortly even several turns during peace time after war with HC. It will be tricky but I am sure VQ will be victorious.

Just something to think about.....

Again nice spoiler Greyfox... well put

 

[GreyFox]

Thanks, Cosmichail.

And geez, thanks for pointing that out, Toastedzerling! I have no experience in engaing PA with other civs, so I wouldn't know.

In that case, we can really throw the PA route out of the window ... unless we PA with FDR .

Hmm .. so, our options are truly limited, I must sadly say. Saladin must be destroyed, Cyrus must be assimilated, and by hook or by crook, we must get FDR's cities and populations to count as ours.

--

EDIT: Thinking along the line of PA with FDR after killing Saladin, what happens if Cyrus PA'ed with Gandhi (assuming after our PA, we overtook Gandhi's score and thus allowing a PA between those two)?

It would be a most interesting (perhaps not for us, I must say!) situation: We can't declare on Cyrus, and they can't declare on us. With only two PA teams, there can be no diplomatic win. With all lands taken, and no one tipping the domination threshold, and no Space/Cultural Victory ... we would be in a deadlock only to be unlocked when the dreaded 2050 Judgement Day arrived ... that is, IF time victory was enabled. If not, hehe, guess our only option is to "give up in disgust", as AlanH put it.

 

[ChrTh]

Toastedzerling, can't we still choose to PA with the #1 Civ, or will they say something like "you're too weak for us"?

If we take out Saladin, we'll definitely be #1, so the choice at this point really is PA or no PA.

EDIT: You know something? Screw Gandhi. Let's take out Saladin then FDR. Let's not ask Cyrus to convert to Hinduism, though--that'll just make him chummier with Gandhi.

One More Thing(tm): Sally and FDR are buddies; Sally might ask FDR to cancel all deals with us once we declare war. Since I have no idea where our troops would end up, I recommend that on the turn we declare war on Sally we make sure we have no troops in America.

@GreyFox: Haven't read your entry yet, I'll take a look at it later. I like the pictures, though!

 

[GreyFox]

Like the pictures??? ... those are simply ripped off the turn-posts!!!!

FDR may or may not agree to Sally's request. If he does, it will be for free ... because before we declare, we would extort Sally clean! ... and I doubt he has any tech FDR does not. But yes, that's a precaution we must take.

In any case, since we don't want to risk Sally getting DP with Rosy again (if we do want to attack Sally next), we would declare this/next turn. Thus, no need to rally our army along the Arab-America border. Simply ferry them straight into Sally's land.

 

[ChrTh]

Like the pictures??? ... those are simply ripped off the turn-posts!!!!

I meant it in the sense that "if I had done the write-up, there wouldn't be any pictures"

 

[eektor]

Great writeup GreyFox!

I think we're running into more questions on how the PA works than answers. Unfortunately, I haven't PA'd anybody yet in my games, so I don't know much about it.

 

[ChrTh]

Great writeup GreyFox!

Don't worry about any typos, I think it's fine ... although you might want to add our "where to settle Thebes" discussion to the mix.

 

[GreyFox]

... although you might want to add our "where to settle Thebes" discussion to the mix.

Done.

gdjsdksadksasadhdgshgdsadsad -- Now, stupid forumn, is this long enough!!!???

 

[Maquis]

Excellent spoiler GreyFox. Thanks for "volunteering" to be our scribe!

 

[Maquis]

I think we're ready to get the spoiler posted... we have to make sure we are first to do so! VQ by name, VQ by game

 

[Cosmichail]

Regarding PA's I learned the following:

1. You can be in second place and go into PA with first place civ.

2. I think if you are in first spot it is unlikely you will get a PA due to "too powerful" issue. (but you can always try)

Question is do you want to wait and take a chance after 40-60 turns to see if you can get PA whilst the others go back into DP and possibly PA.

I think all the talk about this is confusing the issue and I think "bobrath" said it best. What is the quicker route to victory PA or domination. Is Saladin/FDR enough if so then take them out whilst the iron is hot.

You have the production but not yet strong enough tech for FDR. That is the only advantage that PA with Ghandi or FDR can offer. So how much research would you need to catch to FDR to effectively take him out. If PA with Ghandi is quicker then it's a consideration. A PA with FDR might help with Cyrus to vote for VQ (good relationship between the two) and an easy help in taking Saladin out except FDR likes Saladin however once locked into PA and you declare on Saladin FDR has no choice but to fight. With Saladin's land/Cyrus votes/FDR PA you will win diplomatic victory and don't worry about UN I am sure "Baldy" will build it soon enough.

The VQ team has some decisions to make and I just believe it would be a shame to not go after Saladin after giving chemistry to break the DP. During the war with Saladin things might get "goofy" again with DP's and what not so it's another consideration. Perhaps as I mentioned before Ghandi might go to war with Saladin providing the mutual struggle benefit which can lead to a PA. Ghandi's relationship with Saladin isn't that great (Annoyed I think) so maybe that will work.

The wrong approach is likely to backfire so think this one out. Personally I would go for FDR PA if he will sign DP and then go after Saladin as Saladin will be angry at FDR for signing PA and FDR won't sign DP's whilst in a PA. Again there is the problem that Cyrus might go into DP with Ghandi so every move has it's risks. Perhaps if you did accomplish a PA with FDR then you could entice Cyrus to join into war against Saladin with all the techs you would gain.

Whoever set this game up must be working for Satan. LOL Not just brute force but some serious political gameplay. Go with you gut and Good luck. And don't give up you are doing very well, it will take careful gameplay to win.

 

[ChrTh]

Before we post the spoiler: let's take out the screenshot of the world. The requirements for the spoiler thread only says you need to know the existence of all the Civs, it's possible people will meet that criteria but not actually know where Saladin/FDR are. (Or we might want to crop it)

 

[GreyFox]

Before we post the spoiler: let's take out the screenshot of the world. The requirements for the spoiler thread only says you need to know the existence of all the Civs, it's possible people will meet that criteria but not actually know where Saladin/FDR are. (Or we might want to crop it)

Good point, replaced it with an earlier screenshot by eektor.

EDIT: I would release it tomorrow morning (10hrs from now) to give namliaM and bobrath a chance at bahsing it.

 

[GreyFox]

Regarding PA's I learned the following:

Thanks, Cosmichail!

2. I think if you are in first spot it is unlikely you will get a PA due to "too powerful" issue. (but you can always try)

Strange, wouldn't it benefit the AI more to team with the higher scorer? They would team with someone who is "weak" but not someone who is "powerful"? Stupid AI.

The danger of getting into DP with FDR (in order to get PA later) is that this is not preventing saladin to enters into DP with FDR. Then, its anyone's guess if FDR would choose us or Saladin as his PA partner. Too much risk depedning on the RNG.

Thus, I think the best course of action is to declare on Saladin first. At least weaken him to the point that even if FDR signs DP with him, we would be able to take both of them at once.

 

[ChrTh]

I say eliminate Saladin now. Domination without Gandhi looks like our best bet at this point.

 

[namliaM]

On the spoiler, I like it. Tho I am a bit disappointed that we dont have a patented original story telling greyfox report. But this is nice too

The last picture is a bit spoiler-ish I think... The layout of Cyrus and Gandhi lands may not be known to all and if that is know the actual position of FDR and Saladin may be unknown, as it was to us at the time...

HC's position I presume to be general knowledge...


On our game... Gandhi has been score leader all game I think, And in power he is strungling with FDR.... My vote goes to "Self domination" i.e. Take over everyone (except Gandhi). It would be nice to have a few Artists on hand to deal with Gandhi culture by the time we get to Cyrus....

I went and did some MMing and tried some stuff, I didnt actually end the turn tho...
Here are some important things...

We have a great person comming, lets hope we get a scientist (with my luck no way ) I will definatly run 0% science for a bit.
1) Maximize the scientist if we get it.
2) Upgrade an axe or 2 and a Mace or 2 to Grenadiers (with CR3 )

I made the trade with cyrus


I tried to extort Saladin, but... groucy old cheap skate


And we may be in for a new city soon


I still think we should revolt to OR.
1) Bonus on building some banks and markets back home
2) 'Free' Missionaries to send home <= This is important IMHO

 

[eektor]

Well, so much for being first to post a spoiler. Might want to check it out, if you guys haven't seen it yet. Pretty good intro, but at least ours is funny, GreyFox!

I think after we take out Saladin, then we can decide where we want to go. It might be better to go into a PA with Gandhi if we are too far behind FDR. So, let's analyze after we take out Saladin.

Oh, don't want to forget, thanks Cosmichail for the information on PA. Very helpful.

Strange, wouldn't it benefit the AI more to team with the higher scorer? They would team with someone who is "weak" but not someone who is "powerful"? Stupid AI.

I think that might be just so players won't take advantage of it. Like allying with the number 2 civ and therefore winning the game or making it a cakewalk.

 

[ChrTh]

It sounds like we're in agreement with dispatching of Sally, so I think namliaM should feel free to

 

[Maquis]

It sounds like we're in agreement with dispatching of Sally, so I think namliaM should feel free to

Yes, it sure sounds like it. Let's get this war on the road!

Well, maybe a *little* buildup is necessary...