SGOTM 01 - V Q

bobrath · Jun 7, 2006

I thought we were alrady in UnivSuff when Ghandi asked us to flip to it... did I misread the report?

not to knock the poet of course... but I must have been confused by the lyrical obfuscation of the .... stuff.

GreyFox · Jun 7, 2006

and so I tell him,
it will be a real suffer-age,
if we make the conversion he asked.

Sorry, for not being very clear ... no, I rejected it because we need to stay in police state IMHO at that time due to WW.

eektor · Jun 7, 2006

Just so there is no misunderstanding, ChrTh are you going to finish your turns?

Besides what ChrTh mentioned, trading resources give + relationship.

Does giving any gift like money when they don't ask, increase relationship?

ChrTh · Jun 7, 2006

eektor said:
Just so there is no misunderstanding, ChrTh are you going to finish your turns?

Besides what ChrTh mentioned, trading resources give + relationship.

Does giving any gift like money when they don't ask, increase relationship?

Yes, I'm going to finish tonight. I don't know if I'll get it back in time for you to play tonight (but that's just as well as we may have more to discuss).

We're actually pretty strong with our trade bonus with FDR, more trading may not help it.

If they don't ask, you don't get an immediate bonus, it just becomes part of the trading bonus.

eektor · Jun 7, 2006

ChrTh said:
Yes, I'm going to finish tonight. I don't know if I'll get it back in time for you to play tonight (but that's just as well as we may have more to discuss).

No problem, I'll play tomorrow night.

Doc TK · Jun 7, 2006

ChrTh said:
Congrats Team One (if you see this).

Thanks, but don't bail.

ChrTh · Jun 7, 2006

Doc TK said:
Thanks, but don't bail.

Bail? US?!? We're still in the lead! ... for the Wooden Spoons

Report coming shortly ...

ChrTh · Jun 7, 2006

Turn 3 -- 1756 AD (continued)

Ok, here is the plan:

I'm thinking our best course of action is as follows:
Convert to Christianity.
Change Civics to US and OR (to build stuff faster in our newest conquered territory).
Eliminate Sally.
Enter a DP with FDR.
Beeline to Mass Media. I don't know how intelligent the AI is; would Gandhi build UN knowing we can win if he does? This will also be good because it'll give us Communism (we badly need State Property). Cyrus doesn't have Railroad, I would trade him Railroad for SciMeth (do the monasteries really matter all that much?). The other advantage of Beelining is that Gandhi might change his mind and deem us worthy...if so, I might add a DP with him as well (need to play that by ear).
If we get a chance to build the UN before Gandhi, build it with GEs in a city which borders FDR. If FDR likes us enough we may be able to win without giving the city to FDR; if that fails, however, and if Gandhi still loves us, we can gift it to FDR--hopefully that'll work (I'd rather get FDR voting for us just because that is more certain an outcome if he likes us enough). Of course, if Gandhi builds it, we'll need FDR at least to win.

Here is the current diplomacy situation:

______Gandhi__Us
FDR__ +5_____ +6
Cyrus_+3_____ +5

Monastery check:
Hindu -- Thebes, Novgorod, Moscow, Giza, Pi-Ram, Alexandria, Helipolis, Memphis
Jewish -- Thebes (due in 2), Cuzco
Confused -- Vilcas (due in 1), Ollantay (due in 5)
Buddhist -- Novgorod, Moscow
Taoist -- Heliopolis
Christian -- None
Islam -- No Islamic Cities

We'll want at least 2 cities with a Monastery. Sci Meth will complete 2 turns after Railroad, so we'll have it in 4 turns. I can build a Taoist one in Thebes after it completes the Jewish one in that time. I can whip Ollantay to finish its in time. That leaves the Christian Monasteries. I start building one in Baghdad (due in 6, will whip) and Mecca (due in 9, will also whip--they're near the happiness threshold anyway).

Ok, step 1: Convert to Christianity.

Roosevelt is now +8 :thumbsup:

I will wait to revolt to US and OR until after I've eliminated Sally.

Speaking of which ... this is what's guarding Najran.

Armies start moving towards Najran. Will start the attack in 2 turns.

I have a Galleon-Frigate pair I'm moving back towards the homeland. That's the GEngs' Transport (no rush to get them across the ocean).

Most workers are getting ready for the Railroad push next turn.

Double-check the plan, everything looks ok.

Turn 4 -- 1758 AD

:wallbash:

I lose a Worker outside of Kufah to a Camel Archer. He'll pay!

Memphis: Cannon > Rifle
Vilcas: Confused Monastery > Harbor
Kufah: Theatre > Library

Ok, that Camel Archer that stole our worker? Taken from the defense of Najran. :shake:

So in retrospect it was a brilliant ploy of mine to reduce the number of defenders

Rifle kills Camel Archer.

Troops move next to Najran for assault. Next turn should be fun ...

______Gandhi__Us
FDR__ +5_____ +8
Cyrus_+3_____ +5

Gandhi's still doing fine.

Turn 5 -- 1760 AD

Railroad comes in. SciMeth due in 2.

Thebes: Jewish Monastery > Taoist Monastery. Due in 3, will need to see if I can ramp up Production

Khurasan: Work Boat > Theatre (feeling a little cultural pressure)

Assault on Najran. Guarded by 3 Rifles, 2 Catapults, and a Christian Missionary. The AI is so stupid, he has two rifles each a tile away guarding deer and iron :shake:

Bombard down to 40% or 24%, depending of what you believe.
I suicide 1 Cannon and 1 rifle.
Cavalry barely loses to Rifle.
Cavalry defeats Rifle.
Rifle defeats Rifle.
Mace defeats Catapult

Cavalry defeats Catapult
Cavalry defeats Rifle ...

Another item ticked off the list.

I start working on the railroad ...

Turn 6 -- 1762 AD

El-Amarna: Lighthouse > Courthouse

Universal Sufferage and Organized Religion are adopted. Another item off the list.
FDR will do a Defensive Pact. Check off another one. We do lose points with Cyrus and Gandhi though.

Ok, with Sci Meth due next turn, I whip the Taoist Monastery in Thebes. I buy the Confused Monastry in Ollantay. I whip the Christian Monastery in Baghdad and buy the Christian one in Mecca. We'll have at least 2 monasteries for each religion.

______Gandhi__Us
FDR__ +5_____ +8
Cyrus_+3_____ +3

Turn 7 -- 1764 AD

Scientific Method comes in, I start Education (due in 6). Cyrus doesn't have Railroads, but he has nothing we're missing.

WTH?!? Oh SON OF A :wallbash:

The Monasteries got cancelled by SciMeth. DAMMIT. That was definitely :smoke:

on my part. Well, we better build Christian Missionaries while we can.

Thebes: Starts Rifle
Ollantay: Starts Theatre
Damascus: Starts Forge
Baghdad and Mecca go back to Court and Library respectively.
Heliopolis: Grenadier > Rifle
Alexandria: Cavalry > Theatre
Vilcabamba: Barracks > Granary
Cuzco: Ironworks > Barracks

Great Engineers are loaded for their voyage across the sea.

______Gandhi__Us
FDR__ +5_____ +8
Cyrus_+3_____ +3

Turn 8 -- 1766 AD

Moscow: Cannon > Observatory
Cuzco: Barracks > Taoist Missionary
Ollantay: Theatre > Library
Corihua: Observatory > Library
Basra: Theatre > Library

(No change in Diplo)

Turn 9 -- 1768 AD

Thebes: Rifle > Hindu Missionary
Alexandria: Theatre > Observatory
Giza: Rifle > Observatory
Vitcos: Courthouse > Library
Cuzco: Taoist Missionary > Taoist Missionary

Taoism is spread to El-Amarna.

(No change in Diplo)

Turn 10 -- 1770 AD

Cyrus demands Railroad. While I was hoping I'd be able to trade it, I'd rather get the Diplo boost. I cave.

Thebes: Hindu Missionary > Hindu Missionary. Send him to the Galleon outside of Pi-Ram to head to New World.
Memphis: Rifle > Rifle
Tiwanaku: Market > Library
Cuzco: Taoist Missionary > Taoist Missionary. Send him to Vilcas.

It just occured to me--we don't have the Hindu Holy City :smoke:

... I change Thebes to Confused Missionary. Feel free to delete the Hindu Missionary.

______Gandhi__Us
FDR__ +5_____ +8
Cyrus_+3_____ +4

Ok, Education due in 2 at -87gpt (or in 3 with a positive gpt). I'm doing Education > Liberalism > Communism because we could really use State Property. However, if you want to try Physics > Electricity > Radio > Mass Media for the UN beeline you can. At least finish Education so we can build us some Universities.

Gandhi has informed us that he has Marines. Which means he has AssLine and Industrialism.

Sorry for the :smoke:

with the Monasteries.

BTW, FDR and Cyrus have a DP. I have no idea what will happen with the Diplo situation if they PA.

And finally, the Plan so far:

I'm thinking our best course of action is as follows:
~~Convert to Christianity.~~ Done!
~~Change Civics to US and OR (to build stuff faster in our newest conquered territory).~~
~~Eliminate Sally.~~
~~Enter a DP with FDR.~~
Beeline to Mass Media. I don't know how intelligent the AI is; would Gandhi build UN knowing we can win if he does? This will also be good because it'll give us Communism (we badly need State Property). Cyrus doesn't have Railroad, I would trade him Railroad for SciMeth (do the monasteries really matter all that much?). The other advantage of Beelining is that Gandhi might change his mind and deem us worthy...if so, I might add a DP with him as well (need to play that by ear).
If we get a chance to build the UN before Gandhi, build it with GEs in a city which borders FDR. If FDR likes us enough we may be able to win without giving the city to FDR; if that fails, however, and if Gandhi still loves us, we can gift it to FDR--hopefully that'll work (I'd rather get FDR voting for us just because that is more certain an outcome if he likes us enough). Of course, if Gandhi builds it, we'll need FDR at least to win.

In case you're wondering, the reason I don't think we're getting the Defensive Pact bonus with FDR yet is because of the Mutual Struggle bonus; once DP+MS are greater than some number of turns we should start seeing a DP bonus. As for Civics, well, we need FDR to get US.

One More Thing(tm):
If the UN gets built, please STOP and check in with everybody.

The Upload Log:

Spoiler :

Cosmichail · Jun 7, 2006

chrTH

I've done that too with sci meth. AARRRGGHHH Did it during trading and DOH I wanted to build missionaries and lost out on two shrines just conquered.

namliaM · Jun 8, 2006

ChrTh said:
If I had to guess, Gandhi has reached the Modern Age (by researching Mass Media). We're only one point ahead of them, so we're not too powerful for them (besides, the message would be different), and to be honest, unless there's a points-related trigger, I don't know what could've happened in that last interturn for him to change his mind--outside of him getting two ages ahead.

I'm going to play the rest of my turns according to the plan I posted. I'll keep an eye on Gandhi, he might change his mind (if it is age-tech related).

Score does not equal power...

Can we convert Cyrus to Christianity as well? That would up the points for us

No biggy on the monastaries, in OR we can get the for 'free'

GreyFox · Jun 8, 2006

OR is also highly expensive way of generating Missionary... especially considering how many Egyptian cities are Christians. I would suggest actually getting out of OR after spamming a few missionaries (3 per religion we have a shrine) and go into perhaps Pacifism ... we could use a golden age with such a huge empire.

--

Maquis · Jun 8, 2006

Just a roster check...

Maquis
ChrTh - Just played
GreyFox - swapped w/ ChrTh
Eektor - UP!
namlaiM - On deck
bobrath

ChrTh · Jun 8, 2006

GreyFox said:
OR is also highly expensive way of generating Missionary... especially considering how many Egyptian cities are Christians. I would suggest actually getting out of OR after spamming a few missionaries (3 per religion we have a shrine) and go into perhaps Pacifism ... we could use a golden age with such a huge empire.

--

I'm not sure that Pacifism would be a good idea ... we have a lot of troops. OR is a temporary measure, in my opinion, until we get courthouses, etc., built in the (former) Sally homeland. Free Religion or Paganism would probably be our best bet, but we don't want to go Free Religion until after FDR has.

@namliaM: I don't know if Cyrus has any Christian cities (although I guess we can check since we have line of sight into all of them ... I'm trying to remember now, but I don't recall) ... but I doubt he'd switch.

EDIT: On Shrine Income: we only have the Miaos. So I would spread Confused and Tao the most. We have the Christian holy city, but no shrine.

eektor · Jun 8, 2006

Alright I'm playing tonight.

namliaM said:
Score does not equal power...

True, but I think the rules for PA deal with score instead of the power graph.

Did you try to get a DP with Cyrus and Gandhi as well? If we can get it with them both, it could raise relationship with everyone without the negative you formed a DP with a rival. That could set us up for more options down the road.

ChrTh · Jun 8, 2006

I did not try to get a DP with Gandhi or Cyrus ... I wasn't sure if it would give us a penalty with FDR.

bobrath · Jun 8, 2006

In my experience - once you get a DP with one AI and some turns pass... most other civs won't join one with you. Not sure why, but I've only ever had success setting up a triple DP once and that's when I proposed on the same turn.

GreyFox · Jun 8, 2006

We have lots of troops???? I don't think so, unless you doubled the number of troops I left you with. The cost of Pacifism, in my experience, has been often over-estimated. Also weigh it against the benefits of a golden age ... as I recall, we did not generate a lot of GPs. So with Pacifism, we could eaily get a few GPs.

Free religion is a :nono:

unless FDR goes into that himself. OR is too expensive and not worth it with Christainity, Theocracy is useless. Leaving us with only Pacifism and Paganism ....

Oh, on second thought, I retract my push for pacifism :blush:

for the same reason OR is not-worth-it, pacifism is also not worth it. :blush:

.... guess that means Paganism.

--

namliaM · Jun 8, 2006

ChrTh said:
@namliaM: I don't know if Cyrus has any Christian cities (although I guess we can check since we have line of sight into all of them ... I'm trying to remember now, but I don't recall) ... but I doubt he'd switch.

EDIT: On Shrine Income: we only have the Miaos. So I would spread Confused and Tao the most. We have the Christian holy city, but no shrine.

Cyrus dont have any Christian cities right now, but we can change that real easy... Take a few Missionaries, send them "home" and build new ones there.

Cyrus only has 6 or so cities if we convert them all and then convert him, he wouldnt have much reason to switch back... and we get +++ while gandy keeps the -

The shrine can be build, just hire some priest dudes.... Christianity has been spread well allready. Would be very helpfull....

@Eektor, I seem to remember it was all about power, not score...

I say we stay in OR a bit and simply spread Christianity like wildfire. Whip out a few missionaries in Saladin land. Bring them "Home", i.e. 1 or 2 to HC lands and 1 to Thebes. Then run missionaries from there....

eektor · Jun 8, 2006

@niamlaM Well, we are #1 in score and pretty far behind in power. Do you mean we need to improve our power before Gandhi will consider PA'ing us?

Well, anyways I started my turns. There isn't going to be a writeup yet because ...

GANDHI BUILT THE UN!

Also, the only other interesting thing that happened was Broadway was built by Gandhi.

This of course happened in 1774 AD, on my 2nd turn.

Should I upload the save so far?

Right now we just discovered Education. I changed it to Constitution so we can get Democracy before the Emancipation penalty gets too big. My suggestion is after that head towards Biology and then start pumping our population up (build farms all over the place). Currently we are about 42% of the population while Gandhi is at 26%.

ChrTh · Jun 8, 2006

...I don't think you need to upload the save since it happened so quickly. Do us a favor though -- post the first vote results (so we can see how many votes each Civ gets) and post the Diplomatic Resolutions screenshot (or at least tell us how many we need to win). FDR still at +8?

EDIT: Based on the news that Gandhi built the UN, my guess is that there's a trigger in the game re: ages for a PA. Either it's no longer possible in the Modern Age, or once a Civ gets a couple ages ahead of you he won't do it...or maybe it's just Mass Media (since there's a victory condition present)

SGOTM 01 - V Q

Emperor

Make it so ...

Prince

Happy Yule!

Prince

Warlord

Happy Yule!

Happy Yule!

Dark Lord of The Sith

Deity

Make it so ...

King

Happy Yule!

Prince

Happy Yule!

Emperor

Make it so ...

Deity

Prince

Happy Yule!

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