SGOTM 02 - Geezers

Thrallia · Sep 7, 2006

The Save

Turns played. I took the war to Izzy, her army is lacking in anything other than archers. She has one spearman, 2 archers in Seville, 4 archers in Cordoba, 5 archers, 1 chariot, 1 axeman in Madrid.

I think we should keep Seville(good location) and raze Cordoba. Then make peace with her for her techs, build up more swordsmen and a couple more cats, and take her down.

650AD Turn 0: Send axeman on Horses to Toledo to wreak havok

665AD Turn 1: Osaka Swordsman>Catapult; Move Worker near Satsuma to forest for chopping

680AD Turn 2: Units moving to battle

695AD Turn 3: Toledo Razed, 21 gold gained

710AD Turn 4: First unit lost to Izzy, Axeman outside Cordoba(killed 1 archer first). Followup axeman kills another archer. Cat rushed in Osaka for overflow hammers(31 overflow)

725AD Turn 5: Osaka Catapult>Catapult; Cat sent to join Swordman, Axeman headed to Seville; Forge rushed in Tokyo; Temple rushed in Edo

740AD Turn 6: Tokyo Forge>Monastery; Edo temple>Forge; Osaka Catapult>Catapult

755AD Turn 7: Scientist born in Kyoto(left him alone since he wants Compass and I don't know if we want that or not); Satsuma Library>Settler

770AD Turn 8: Swordsman explored to Madrid, screenshot taken of defenses there

785AD Turn 9: Nothing

800AD Turn 10: Bombardment of Seville begun. Osaka Catapult>Forge

815AD Turn 11: (accidently hit enter) Bombard Seville; lose Swordsman exploring Madrid

830AD Turn 12: Bombard Seville some more, Settler almost finished in Satsuma.

Log:

Spoiler :

klarius · Sep 7, 2006

Well, I just returned from a business trip to the US.
I will also be away for the weekend, so will play right away as that's the only time I have in the next few days.
Got it.

klarius · Sep 7, 2006

Played 8 turns to get us even again (and that was about as much stamina as I had).

Made peace with Izzy pretty quick for 2 techs. We anyway have to regroup, if we want to go for the only thing really worthwhile IMO, that's Madrid.
Met a few more people and advanced our science quite a bit. We should go out now with caravels to find the rest.

Turnlog:
Turn 0 830AD:
Kyoto rushes the forge.
Tokyo rushes the monastery, although it still has unhappiness.
But we are currently at a breakpoint where we can get a lot hammers for 1 population, due to the forge.
I also rush the courthouse in Barcelona. It's currently working not so hot tiles.
I also get the worker out to improve more tiles.
Satsuma is working bad tiles for building a settler. Correct that.
I don't see why Seville would be a really good town, but well ...
Our defenses in Osaka are pretty thin, but I will still try to complete the forge. This is already delayed more than enough.
Izzy would currently give hunting and polytheism for peace. Ok, we hurt her some more.

Turn 1 845AD:
Kyoto forge->colloseum
Tokyo monastery->colloseum
Barcelona courthouse->forge
Further bomabardment of Seville.

Turn 2 860AD:
Seville at 0 defense.
Capture it w/o losses (catapult retreats, then sword and axes have easy fights).
No buildings.
I make peace with Izzy for monarchy and hunting. Revolt to Hereditary Rule.

Turn 3 875AD:
We are a lot happier. Other than that not much happening.

Turn 4 890:
Satsuma settler-granary. Satsumas borders expand.

Turn 5 905:
We meet Mansa Musa, who has about a million techs more than us.
I don't see him but he sees us, so he has Optics.
We have philosophy. He won't do the even trade philosophy-civil service.
I trade compass, calendar and archery for philosophy

Turn 6 920AD:
Build Kagoshima for wheat.

Turn 7 935AD:
Rush forge in Edo.

Turn 8 950AD:
Machinery in. Use scientist in Kyoto to lightbulb Optics.
The extended visibility lets us meet Bismarck.
He is backwards as compared to Mansa, so there are some trade options.
Get all he can trade (4 techs) for about all we have (except philosophy, which he cannot see).
Order a bunch of caravels we should rush soon, to get more contacts.

I end here. It's again an even turn and jet lag is beginning to bite.

The next turn sets should be interesting. Get some caravels out as soon as feasible and meet everybody.
We might still have the chance to get the circumnavigate bonus, if we are fast.
I have set science to guilds. Knights are nice. We could still change to something else (e.g. engineering or even the long way to astronomy already).
We still have philosophy over Bismarck (we could not trade this turn because he missed the prerequisites).
But he hasn't anything of value. I would probably wait until we meet a few more people.
I still hope we can buy CS from somebody, sometime.

Thrallia · Sep 7, 2006

once we get guilds, perhaps we can trade that to Mansa for CS. If we can, then we'll instantly have access to Samurai and will then be able to found some core cities and crush our competition

I liked Seville because it had stone, sugars, I believe it had fish, and plenty of space for growth.

klarius · Sep 7, 2006

Well, Thrallia, the only one we can crush currently is Izzy and for that we don't need Samurai.
We still can't reach anybody else w/o astronomy.
It may be that we get a culture-bridge to Kyoto at some time, but there we could not even (rush-)build Samurai, because there we will have no iron.

One more note. It just came to my mind that I ignored that with optics we get whaling boats. So move the existing workboat to a whale, to get the lux online.

markh · Sep 8, 2006

As trippstowe has not yet reported back. I will take it, so I got it and will play this evening.

markh · Sep 8, 2006

Had a look at this game for an hour now and I am not quite sure what to do. Maybe too much :beer:

. Why guilds ? Samurai are melee units, so we get free promotion and then they are even better than knights. CS is cheaper, too. Knights are nice no doubt, but I would prefer to have more Samurais. Guilds take longer. This time can be used to build a few more Samurais.

I will play tomorrow, so any other opinions are welcome.

Thrallia · Sep 9, 2006

I'm thinking Guilds because we could then trade it to the AIs that we'll hopefully meet soon for numerous techs, including CS.

Also, Sam, you gonna write the spoiler for us this SG? I liked reading yours last time

Sam_Yeager · Sep 9, 2006

Thrallia said:
Also, Sam, you gonna write the spoiler for us this SG? I liked reading yours last time

After trying, and failing miserably, to write the final spoiler for SGOTM01 I've decided that spoilers are not my strong point.

I think some else should do it instead.

However looking at the qualification criteria we are not entitled to read or add to the spoiler thread for a while yet in any case.

markh · Sep 9, 2006

ok, save is uploaded.

Here is my log :

Turn 0 : 950AD : hit enter

IBT : Seville completes Lighthouse -> Caravel

Turn 1 : 965AD : just moving some units

IBT : nothing

Turn 2 : 980AD : not much to do

IBT : nothing

Turn 3 : 995AD : rush caravels in Kyoto and Barcelona

IBT : nothing

Turn 4 : 1010AD : whales are connected
caravels set sails

IBT : nothing

Turn 5 : 1025AD : we meet Huayna, he is annoyed. He has monotheism, drama and literature
we would have philosophy and machinery for trading, but he is not interested in trading with us

we also meet Kublai Khan, he is the weakest of all other AIs, so I trade philosophy to him for monotheism, literature, drama and 20 gold (all he had)
we are still up optics on him

IBT : Osaka : forge -> aqueduct

Turn 6 : 1040AD : trade philosophy to Bismarck for theology. we are still up optics
Mansa Musa has guilds, so the price drops drastically

IBT : Satsuma : granary -> settler

Turn 7 : 1055AD : we convert to vassalage

IBT : we meet Hatshepsut, I buy civil service from her for philosophy, machinery and 160 gold

Turn 8 : 1070AD : zzz

IBT : nothing

Turn 9 : 1085AD : zzz

IBT : The Hanging Gardens have been built somewhere

Turn 10 : 1100AD : zzz

I think we now know everybody. We could trade civil service to Kublai for music and a little gold.

Sam_Yeager · Sep 9, 2006

markh said:
I think we now know everybody. We could trade civil service to Kublai for music and a little gold.

Acording to the F8 screen there are seven AI civs so we still need to find one more civ. I was wondering why you wanted Music but I see it's a pre-req for Military tradition. I wonder if we can pick up the Taj Mahal?

I'm not quite sure why we are building colosseums in the islands. Surely harbours would have been better?

Looking at the tech trade screen it doesn't look as though maces will help us too much as most, if not all, civs will have it by the time we get Astronomy. So the next question is which techs should we be researching and in which order?

Hopefully Izzy will be gone in the not too distant future. After that I think we probably need to build some good productive cities to help with research and military.

markh · Sep 10, 2006

Samurais replace maces and they have +50% on melee units and free promotion. In combination with cats they are quite powerful, so I think they will be the way to go for our first overseas campaign.
The colosseums were in the queue, so I just let them go.

Researchwise I would go for astronomy. We need galleons and we have to get the campaign going, otherwise I doubt that we will have a chance in the competition.

Sam_Yeager · Sep 10, 2006

markh said:
Samurais replace maces and they have +50% on melee units and free promotion. In combination with cats they are quite powerful, so I think they will be the way to go for our first overseas campaign.
The colosseums were in the queue, so I just let them go.

Researchwise I would go for astronomy. We need galleons and we have to get the campaign going, otherwise I doubt that we will have a chance in the competition.

I forgot about the Samurais instead of maces. However we do need more productive cities to produce military. We also need good science cities. At present Astronomy, even at 100% if we could afford it, will take quite a while.

I am beginning to think that we will need to consolidate and build up our infrastructure before we attack anyone overseas. We may have already missed the boat, pun intentional, as far as winning although I hope I will be proved wrong.

Who do you think should be the first target after Izzy? I realise that we also need to do more scouting and find the last civ.

Thrallia · Sep 10, 2006

I suspect, that if no one has feudalism yet when we finish Izzy and are ready to move on someone else, we will want to take on the AI that is most advanced, to prevent them from getting feudalism. Although, an equally worthwhile argument could be made for taking on the least advanced AI as well.

klarius · Sep 11, 2006

Everybody besides Izzy has feudalism. The question is rather, if we will face gunpowder units already when we get astronomy.
We should look to get intelligence first to plan a future campaign.
We have now a culture bridge from Kyoto to Bismarck so the galley can go there. So we could build units on the island to scout at least Germany and Mansa. Hatty will also give open borders, if we want.
I think we should keep Germany as friend for quite some time, to help keep our islands safe. Hatty and Bismarck share a religion and are good friends and she is not annoyed with us. Maybe we also want to stay friendly with her for some time.

We could think to rush some cats and longbows :eek:

on the islands and look if we can gain something in an AI-AI war
if the opportunity presents itself.

We should build more military in Osaka now. The aqueduct is nice to have, but not really urgent. We should take Madrid soon (peace treaty is over) and also go for the barb city south.
These are the good cities we can capture on our continent, other cities we have to settle ourselves.

markh · Sep 11, 2006

I would let Osaka complete the aqueduct, but I agree it is not a must have at the moment.

It cannot hurt to rush some military on the island cities. Better be prepared if we get an opportunity.

After guilds I would go paper, education and liberalism. Maybe we are first to liberalism and get the free tech (astronomy) although I doubt we will manage to be first.

Sam_Yeager · Sep 11, 2006

markh said:
After guilds I would go paper, education and liberalism. Maybe we are first to liberalism and get the free tech (astronomy) although I doubt we will manage to be first.

Well if we go that route then I think we're looking at grenadiers and riflemen for attacking the AI as I suspect the AI are likely to have discovered Gunpowder by then. If we want to use our Samurai then I think we need to go for Astronomy next. OTOH we need to build up our infrastructure to build all the required military and galleons so perhaps my point is irrelevant.

EDIT: Should we be looking at building the Heroic Epic in Osaka?

klarius · Sep 11, 2006

The path via liberalism is nearly double as expensive than going directly to astronomy. That's to long IMO.
Nevertheless I expect the AI to have gunpowder by the time we can get to them in force, even going the direct way.
But musketeers are not a real problem. They are only marginally stronger than longbows (with inherent city defense and first strike). Suicide catapults and samurai or knights can deal with them as well as with longbows.

We probably should really build the Heroic Epic, before we get to astronomy.
Osaka is our only real good city currently and that will not get much better in the next turn sets. So the majority of our unit production will be in Osaka.

Sam_Yeager · Sep 11, 2006

@juballs - Can you take it or do you want a skip?

Sam_Yeager · Sep 12, 2006

OK 'got it'. Will play later today.

SGOTM 02 - Geezers

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