SGOTM 02 - Geezers

Turn 0 1226:
Change Nara to workboat. What this city needs most is food.
Barcelona to barracks. If we are building military here, we should make use of our cheap barracks.
Edo can spare a garrison for Kyoto. Put it on the galley.
Cancel the orders for the Samurai and the horse archer.
BTW don't do this to give orders which go far into the next turn-set, please. I will maybe do the same moves, but it's frustrating if I wanted something else.

Turn 1 1232:
Battle of Madrid.
Very good RNG (I fear the bad will then come soon). 3 cats retreat and I take the city with no losses.
City has Mahabodhi and lighthouse.
Order a Monastery, so it doesn't get forgotten that Buddhist Misionaries are now worth a coin.
But the city is still in anarchy for 7 turns.
Trade our world map for 140g to Mansa and 70g to the Khan.
Rush barracks in Barcelona.
Rush colloseum in Tokyo. Will generate nice overflow.

Turn 2 1238:
Kill a spanish archer with a horse archer near Seville.
Getting thin on barb defense near Kagoshima. Promote the newest horse archer from Osaka flanking II and attack a barb axe at bad odds- retreat :).
In our biggest cities we get war weariness. I ignore the crybabies for now.

Turn 3 1244:
Retake Seville from one archer. Nice of Izzy that she didn't move the second archer in, but had left it outside for the horse archer to take.
More war weariness. Izzy doesn't want to talk, otherwise I would have made cease fire or peace.
I need the troops from Madrid, to get a good kill ratio and that will take some turns.
Rush the market in Kyoto and harbor in Edo to get rid of unhappy pop.

Turn 4 1250:
No hostilities.
Order barracks in Tokyo and Edo. We will rush military at some time.

Turn 5 1256:
Nothing noteworthy.

Turn 6 1262:
Now Izzy comes begging for peace. I decline. The first troops are just now on her border.

Turn 7 1268:
Nothing of consequence.

Turn 8 1274:
Madrid comes out of anarchy. Rush the Monastery.
Attack Cordoba. No losses and raze it. It's a location that blocks several better places.
Izzy is history.

Turn 9 1280:
Not much.
Some troops arrive at the barb town. But this will now need a lot of effort.
Two longbows, an axe and 50% defense. No dice w/o catapults.
This would be again an even turn. Decide to mimick Thrallia :) and play a few more rather than less.

Turn 10 1286:
Not much. Peace everywhere.

Turn 11 1292:
A few barb skirmishes.

Turn 12 1298:
About the same, but lose an axe to attacking longbows.
Build academy in Osaka with scientist travelling through my whole set.

Turn 13 1304:
Rush a few things.

Turn 14 1310:
Well, at least a 0 at the end of the year.
Still nothing much happening.
Troops are marching towards barb town, but we really need catapults and strong attackers there before we can do anything.

We should have astronomy soon. Then there is the problem to build ships.
And the other question is: do we want to use astronomy to catch up in tech or not.
This really comes to the question: Can we finish this before the AI gets grenadiers and/or rifles.
If the answer would be yes (I doubt it), we would not want to trade, but stop research until everything upgradable is upgraded.
If no, we would want to trade as well as possible to get us started towards cavalry and/or rifles.
Anyway, we should capture the barb city and build a few more cities. Then we should ship what we have to the other continent.
We get our troops together in Germany and then attack ???
Huyana looks like the easier target, but stopping the tech leader Mansa might be more important.

I don't think we should go for our good friends Bismarck or Hatty first and the others are pretty difficult to reach.
 
Very nicely done klarius. :goodjob:

klarius said:
We should have astronomy soon. Then there is the problem to build ships.
And the other question is: do we want to use astronomy to catch up in tech or not.
This really comes to the question: Can we finish this before the AI gets grenadiers and/or rifles.
If the answer would be yes (I doubt it), we would not want to trade, but stop research until everything upgradable is upgraded.
If no, we would want to trade as well as possible to get us started towards cavalry and/or rifles.
Anyway, we should capture the barb city and build a few more cities. Then we should ship what we have to the other continent.
We get our troops together in Germany and then attack ???
Huyana looks like the easier target, but stopping the tech leader Mansa might be more important.

I agree that it is almost certain that most civs will have grenadiers/rifles by the time we can attack. We not only have to build the galleons but also the military and that will take quite a while. So I think we will have to trade astronomy sooner rather than later. As you say we probably need to settle some cities to deny our land, or at least most of it, to the AI.

I posted earlier about prospective targets. I would be inclined to go for Huayna. We need to get a firm foothold on the 'mainland' so that we can start producing military there rather than sending it over the ocean. The reason for Huayna is that he is next to Bismarck so we shouldn't ( crosses fingers) have any problems with losing open borders or being backstabbed.

EDIT: Thinking further I almost wonder whether we should skip to tanks and infantry. Unfortunately I suspect that's likely to take too long unless we can really get our science motoring.
 
Mansa is also next to Bismarck in the very south.
And for sure we will want to win this before tanks. The others might get tanks, but the AI is unable to use them for a real advantage.
You can easily kill a tank capable AI with canons and rifles.
 
A few further thoughts.:D

We should be looking to switch to Bureaucracy pretty soon and maybe Caste for the specialists.

All the AI look pretty cramped, so it is quite likely that we will see the odd war break reasonably soon. It's interesting to note that our land area is almost the same as Bismarck's. :) Of course that means our little isle will look quite attractive to them. :(

If we can get Hinduism to spread to one of our cities it might be worth converting for the plus points that we would get. At least until we start attacking the Hindu AIs when NSR would probably be a better bet. ;)
 
klarius said:
Mansa is also next to Bismarck in the very south.
And for sure we will want to win this before tanks. The others might get tanks, but the AI is unable to use them for a real advantage.
You can easily kill a tank capable AI with canons and rifles.

We must have cross posted. :) I didn't see that on my quick look at the game. However by the sound of it there's not too much of a border overlap? If so then we're probably still better going for Huayna. I'm assuming that we will send our forces overland through Bismarck's lands and only fight one AI, if at all possible, at a time.
 
I also think we need to take out one or two AI to get a foothold on the mainland so that we can produce the majority of our troops over there.

I think perhaps for our first war at least, we'll want to take him out with Samurais and Cats, which might mean stopping tech for a little while to upgrade our Axes, then destroy one of the AI.

I think we should send the exploring worker over the Mansa and Huayna then, and figure out which would be the easier target.

and :p klarius, I am not good at telling how many turns I've done in game, despite the fact that I take notes each turn, I somehow seem to miss my number by one or two lol

I also believe we'll need Grenadiers to complete the conquest, but I don't think we need to bother with riflemen, as the AI loves promoting everything to riflemen, and if we've got gunpowder promoted CR Grenadiers, everything will suddenly get much easier when they upgrade lol
 
here's a crazy idea: after we've got our grenadier army set up, we research rifling and then trade it to the AI SO that they'll upgrade. I've got this feeling that grenadiers will have higher combat odds against riflemen than against muskets. :p
 
Thrallia said:
here's a crazy idea: after we've got our grenadier army set up, we research rifling and then trade it to the AI SO that they'll upgrade. I've got this feeling that grenadiers will have higher combat odds against riflemen than against muskets. :p

:crazyeye: Crazy is how it definitely sounds. :lol: Since you came up with the idea why don't you crunch a few numbers to convince us sceptics? This of course is apart from the practicality of delaying our attack until we have done the research and the AI have had time to upgrade their military. :)

EDIT: Please also bear in mind that the idea is to finish early. :)
 
Well, grenadier against Rifle is about the same as against musketman. In fact musketman are a fraction of a strengthpoint easier.
What makes this idea really bad is that longbows upgrade to rifle not musket or grenadier.
So as long as the AI doesn't have rifling they still have a lot of old longbows in their cities. Soon after they get rifling all the old well promoted units are rifles.
Promoted rifles in cities are tough, even for grenadiers.
 
o) 1310AD : move some units

IBT : Kagoshima : settler -> Samurai

1) 1316AD : just moving units

IBT : Kyoto : catapult -> catapult

2) 1322AD : pretty much the same

IBT : nothing

3) 1328AD : start bombarding the barb town

IBT : trade philosophy to Huayna for music and 170 gold
Edo : catapult -> catapult
Madrid : Buddhist Missionary -> courthouse

4) 1334AD : found Nagoya : rax

IBT : astronomy -> nationalism
Nara : theatre -> rax

5) 1340AD : not much

IBT : a barb longbow suicides on our stack
Tokyo : catapult -> galleon

6) 1346AD : one cat is killed on the attack on Magyar
a samurai dies on thge attack on Magyar (had 99.5% chance of winning) :gripe:
samurai kills longbow at Magyar
axeman kills maceman at Magyar
swordman kills the remaining longbow and Maygar is ours

IBT : a barb galley suicides on one of our caravels
Kublai Khan gets Liberalism

7) 1352AD : not much

IBT : Satsuma : horsearcher -> samurai

8) 1358AD : horsearcher loses to barb horsearcher :mad:

IBT : nothing

9) 1364AD : not much

IBT : Isaac Newton is born in Kyoto

10) 1370AD : nothing

Mansa Musa would give us nationalism and 40 gold for astronomy if we want that.
 
markh said:
Mansa Musa would give us nationalism and 40 gold for astronomy if we want that.

If I'm interpreting the trade screen correctly Khan has Astronomy but none of the rest do. The alternative is that Khan doesn't have the prerequisite techs. I'm not sure how I can tell that. However, if I'm right then we should flog it while we can.

I only had a quick look at the game, but is that a barb maceman I see near Satsuma? :eek:

EDIT: Perhaps Khan took Astronomy as his free tech?
 
The Khan definitely has the prerequisites so he has also astronomy. We should really try to catch up with astronomy.
We should do the nationalism trade and then also trade guilds (->gunpowder), engineering and paper.
Next turn we can then see, if we get more.
Note nationalism opens up military tradition, if we want, but it's worth nothing w/o gunpowder, which is also needed for cavalry.
And the grenadier lovers need gunpowder and engineering to open up chemistry.

Edit:
We can now also trade resources with Bismarck and Hatty. We should do it.
 
Roster :

klarius
trippstowe skipped until posts to be available
markh played
juballs2001 will hopefuly turn up soon
Sam Yeager on deck
Thrallia up
 
Sam, I would say take it. As soon as juballs reports back we can put him back into the roster.
 
Ok, got it. Will play in afew hours.
 
Turn 0 -1370 AD
Change Nagoya build to a theatre instead of barracks so that it can expand. MM Osaka and Barcelona for production.

I say hello to Mansa and Hatty and make the following trades.

MansaTrade.jpg


HattyTrade.jpg


Turn 1 - 1376 AD
Edo completes a catapult and starts another. Madrid completes a courthouse and starts on a barracks. Kagoshima completes a samurai and starts on a longbow for garrison purposes.

Maygar comes out of revolt and starts on the previously queued courthouse.

Say hello to Bismarck and ask what he has to trade. The news is not good.

WFYABTA.jpg


However he is quite happy to trade pigs for sheep. I remember that Hatty had traded her world map and take a couple of screenshots of the AI dominions.

AIWorld.jpg


The second screenshot included resources and is too cluttered to be worthwhile posting.

Civ4 obviously decided it disapproved of such things so it decided to crash. :( Reloaded from auto save and repeated my actions.

Turn 2 - 1382 AD
Kublai came round asking for OB. I see no reason why not and agree. Kyoto completes a catapult and starts on a galleon. Osaka completes the Heroic Epic and starts on samurai. The barb maceman is lurking by Satsuma's sheep so I move out a swordman to the hill to distract it.

Since Bismarck is unhelpful on the trade front I decide to make the following trade with Huayna.

HuaynaTrade.jpg


IBT:
The barb maceman takes the bait and attacks the swordman who gives his life for the greater glory of Japan.

Turn 3 - 1388 AD
Barcelona completes a samurai and starts on a library. Since we're getting a a few demerits for trading with Huayna and because Hatty's map gives us a reasonable idea of what's out there I decide not to ask Huayna for a OB. However our scout does provide the following information.

Timbuktu.jpg


Vilcas.jpg


Looks like we had better include a few pikes in the invasion force. Kumbi Saleh is the holy city for two religions so it may be worth keeping.

IBT:
The weakened barb maceman has a rush of blood to the head and decides to attack Satsuma across the river. A samurai who just happened to be lurking in Satsuma polishes him off.

Turn 4 - 1394 AD
Madrid completes a barracks. I decide that it can start pumping out galleons for the time being. I trade crab for spices to Hatty.

Turn 5 - 1400 AD
Osaka completes a samurai and starts on another garrison longbow. Nara completes a barracks and starts on a granary.

Turn 6 - 1406 AD
Hatty flutters her eyelashes at me and makes the following offer.

HattyOffer.jpg


I am quite tempted but decide that this will just make our life harder in the long run. I graciously decline.

Turn 7 - 1412 AD
Osaka completes a longbow and starts on a samurai. Rush the granary in Seville.

Huayna drops by and sees no point in beating about the bush.

HuaynaRequest.jpg


In like vein I tell him to shove off.

Turn 8 - 1418 AD
Kagoshima completes a longbow and starts on a forge. Start library in Seville.

I discover why Kublai asked for OB earlier. :mad:

Tiflis.jpg



Turn 9 - 1424 AD
Buddhism spreads in Berlin.

Turn 10 - 1430 AD
Gunpowder comes in and I select Chemistry. Start building up the treasury again. Rush the library in Barcelona. Satsuma completes a samurai and starts on another.
 
Roster :

klarius on deck
trippstowe skipped until posts to be available
markh
juballs2001 skipped
Sam Yeager played
Thrallia up
 
Looks good.:goodjob:

What happened to the scientist we had in Kyoto ?

Seeing the full map now I think we should begin our conquest at Eygpt or China continuing taking one after the other. I would not start in the middle as then we would have to divide forces and this will take more time. If we start at Egypt or China we just go clock- or anticlockwise around the ring.
 
looks good to me too, I'll pick it up tomorrow. I agree we should start at one end or the other, perhaps we should start with the AI that has the best looking empire out of Egypt and China...we'll want to keep their cities for a big production boost of our units.

I think I'll probably be focusing on building up our units then, huh?
 
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