SGOTM 02 - Geezers

klarius · Sep 28, 2006

Bismarck knowing sci method is not a big deal. It does rather open up expensive non-military techs and may even prevent him from storming to infantry.
And really we have to prevent him from stabbing at us. With his forces he would for sure capture several cities on the first turn and that makes peace talks very difficult.

But still I would not bribe Bismarck before going to war. He might then even sign against Huayna, Khan and Hatty or Mansa (as good because of defensive pact with Hatty, though I would rather try to get him back to cautious, so he can sell us still a few techs), considering that war declarations when you are at war are a lot cheaper.
Hatty in war mode or not is less important IMO than the fact that she also needs a war to impale outdated units.
It would be really nice, if Bismarck is pretty isolated, when we finally feel strong enough to attack him.

Edit:
I just looked again in the game.
Before declaring on anybody gift Gao to Kublai. The horsehockey city is not worth defending and another city to put hurt on the Khan is good to get him to the peace table.

markh · Sep 29, 2006

I would have done the Bismarck bribing at the same time declaring war on Huayna, not before of course. Obviously it does not make much sense to let them fight while we are just watching one of them getting stronger.

In case of us agreeing to go to war with Huayna I would have followed the initial plan to destroy his initial stacks. Going for Vilcas then of course depends what he brings in and what we have left to go on the offensive.

Ok, so I will start this little adventure this evening.

markh · Sep 29, 2006

0) 1625AD : empty Gao and move units into Djenne
upgrade two pikes

IBT : nothing

1) 1628AD : nothing

IBT : nothing

2) 1631AD : move some units. As Djenne could be attacked directly I reinforce best I can

IBT : nothing

3) 1634AD : rush courthouse in Djenne

IBT : nothing

4) 1637AD : moving units

IBT : nothing

5) 1640AD : ok let us try our luck
gift Gao to Khan
declare war on Huayna and Khan
I get Bismarck into the war with Huayna for scientific method
cross fingers

IBT : first wave is held off, but a lot Incan units prepare for the next attack

6) 1643AD : upgrade samurais to grenadiers in Djenne

IBT : Djenne holds, but many units are injured

7) 1646AD : kill 2 Incan rifles and a cat

IBT : nothing

8) 1649AD : kill a Mongol cav

IBT : The Germans arrive at the front

9) 1652AD : moving units

IBT : lose a gren at Djenne
an Incan frigate destroys a fishing net at our East coast

10) 1655AD : kill a few Incan units

Sam_Yeager · Sep 30, 2006

You seem to have made a noticeable dent in Huayna's power. :goodjob:

This is my 'got it' but I probably won't play before tomorrow.

markh · Sep 30, 2006

Be aware of the Mongols. Their first wave has not been there. They must be on the way and should arrive soon. He has cavs, so it will be more difficult to hold him back.

German units have now entered Incan lands, so this might distract Huayna a bit and we can concentrate to hold off the Mongols first stacks. Then we might be able to hurt Huayna.

Sam_Yeager · Oct 1, 2006

Turn 0 -1655 AD
Destroy weakened enemy grenadier by Djenne. Change frigate build at Barcelona to cavalry because I feel we need some decent military on the homeland. I also want to know what Kublai has in Tiflis. Move samurai from Walata towards Niani for reinforcement. Madrid is not happy.

Turn 1 - 1658 AD
Tokyo finishes longbow and starts on samurai. Edo finishes a pikeman and starts on another. Nagoya completes a cavalry and starts on a grenadier. Rush the granary in Tadmekka. Destroy a cavalry near Djenne that is pillaging our lands although I lose a cavalry in the process.

Turn 2 - 1661 AD
Tadmekka starts a forge. Destroy one of Kublai's galleys by Kumbi Saleh.

IBT:
Huayna's frigate attacks our frigate near Barcelona. Our frigate just wins (0.8/8).

Turn 3 - 1664 AD
Niani completes a pikeman and starts a samurai. Start moving forces from Timbukti towards Vilcas.

IBT:
Awdaghost flips to Bismarck.

Turn 4 - 1667 AD
St. Augustine is born in Kyoto. He will help research Divine Right, which most of the AI already know, or build a shrine. I've put him in Edo for the time being. Destroy 3 of Kublai's cavalry and a catapult next to Djenne for the loss of a grenadier. Kyoto completes a workboat. For some reason there is another already queued. I start a pikeman instead. Our forces are now next to Vilcas along with Bismarck. I have a look at Tiflis.

IBT:
Bismarck takes and razes Vilcas. :mad:

Bang goes my plans to use it as a forward staging post.

Turn 5 - 1670 AD
Start moving the attack force towards Corihuayrachina (Cori) which is a holy city.

Turn 6 - 1673 AD
We now know Steel. I set research Steam Power as it is a prerequisite for Assembly Line. However I have also set research to zero to build up funds. Nara completes a cavalry and starts a cannon. Madrid finally finishes the Globe Theatre and starts a frigate. A grenadier comes to pillage more land by Djenne. I move out some forces to deal with it.

IBT:
Lose a cavalry to an enemy cavalry.

Turn 7 - 1676 AD
Kill enemy cavalry and grenadier near Djenne. Barcelna completes a cavalry and starts on a cannon. Maygar finishes a cavalry and starts a cannon. Rush frigate in Madrid to deal with one of Kublai's frigates. Our existing frigate is still recovering in Barcelona. Continue moving forces towards Cori.

IBT:
Kublai's frigate pillages the nets by Barcelona.

Turn 8 - 1679 AD
Madrid starts a cavalry. Timbuktu completes a pikeman and starts a library.

IBT:
Bismarck attacks Cori without success.

Turn 9 - 1682 AD
Attack Cori but it is too tough. Send reinforcements to the attack force. Huayna offers a peace treaty + 10 gold. I refuse.

Turn 10 - 1685 AD
Send more reinforcements towards Cori

Handover
I'm not too happy with my decision making over Cori. The attack force against Vilcas was large enough. However I should have started reinforcing it once I decided to attack Cori. Huayna's substantial reinforcement of Cori didn't help . However the bottom line is that I've lost four cats ,a samurai and a grenadier for no real gain so far. I was reluctant to take forces out of Djenne as that seems to be the principal target for Huayna.

Please note that Kublai's frigate is in the middle of the ocean between ourselves and Bismarck. I have routed our galleons to the south to be out of it's reach but we need to destroy it.

Kublai seems no longer to have a defensive pact with Huayna although it is still mentioned in their diplo pluses. Perhaps it might be worth making peace with Kublai in the short term? Even if Huayna bribes him back again it'll reduce Huayna's funds.

Spoiler :

Sam_Yeager · Oct 2, 2006

Roster :

Sam Yeager - just played
Thrallia - up
klarius - on deck
markh
trippstowe and juballs on automatic skip until they post to be available again.

I've left Thrallia as 'up' even though it's more than 24 hours. However perhaps it may be best for klarius to grab it since Thrallia was not certain he would be available.

markh · Oct 2, 2006

Well done, Sam. :goodjob:

Huayna already feels the pressure.

Thrallia · Oct 3, 2006

I think I can post a got it, I'll let you know within 4 hours for certain

Thrallia · Oct 3, 2006

ok, got it, played it, and hopefully Klarius can repair the damage my RNG did to our armed forces...

Turn 0: I assume the funds are for upgrading troops? Hoping I don't screw something up, I use them to upgrade the warriors on our Isle Empire
Rush Granary in Walata

IBT: Bismark's golden Age begins

Turn 1: I talk to Khan, after determining that the defensive pact is indeed gone, and he's willing to give us WM, 70 gold, and 8 gpt for peace. Since we've got our hands full with Huayna currently, I accept(he wouldn't give us any techs, unfortunately)
I move some troops out of Timbuktu and Djenne for offensives against Cori and Machu Picchu. 2 galleons of troops are headed over from the mainland and one from the islands with reinforcements

IBT: We lose a samurai, grenadier and cavalry to attacks from Huayna, killing 3 catapults when he bombed our stack near Cori

Turn 2: Izumo Pike>Cannon, Kagoshima Cannon>Observatory, move units toward cities

IBT: We lose some samurai in our stack at Cori, Huayna is seriously trying to destroy this thing, he's virtually ignoring every other unit we have

Turn 3: Bombard Machu Picchu to 0%, move units.

Turn 4: Machu Picchu taken with no losses. Cori bombed to 0% again.

IBT: Either I've got the worst luck with RNG ever, or our army is hopelessly outmatched by Huayna. I lose the entire stack I had in Machu Picchu(2 grenadiers, 2 cats, 1 samurai) and Huayna takes it back.

Turn 5: With my sole remaining unit from the Machu stack, a cavalry, I take the city from the longbow, and raze it since there's no way to keep it. Destroy half the defenses of Cori, victimized by a bad RNG again though

Turn 6: Take Cori. Keep it, hopefully we can keep this city. I lost two battles at 90%+ odds though, I'd say we'll be lucky if I don't kill our shot at winning the game

Turn 7: Move troops. Garrison Cori,

IBT: Bismark offers incense for clams. I accept since that will improve our relations for now. I also discover he's willing to give us 11 gpt for Stone, so I take the offer. Mao demands 450 gold and I refuse.

Turn 8: I've now got 10 or 11 units transported over from the mainland on their way to the Incan front. I set Cuzco as our next goal, as taking it out will take away all of Huayna's strategic resources(means no more cavs for HC!)

IBT: Bismark's golden age ends

Turn 9: moving units and healing other units

Turn 10: move units some more, finish healing(hopefully) our Cori stack to proceed toward the next city

We took some big dips in our power graph because of the major RNG issues I had. I looked back over my logs, and it looks like any time I was defending against Huayna, he pretty much won if he had a 30% chance or higher. I also lost 2 or 3 attacks with 90% or higher odds.

Klarius, We've got some troops in German territory, and galleons en route to and from the battlezone. I ended their queued actions since you asked me to earlier

Sam_Yeager · Oct 3, 2006

Thrallia said:
We took some big dips in our power graph because of the major RNG issues I had.

Well, Huayna also took a big dip in power as well.

Thrallia said:
Mao demands 450 gold and I refuse.

Erm, I can understand the thinking but this may well have been a bad idea. I hope Mao's forces near Tokyo are heading for Huayna's lands rather than us.

WW is hitting hard.

Looks like we need 30% on happiness to keep it under control.

Although at least it might help against Bismarck's culture pressure.

It doesn't look as though Cuzco will fall soon so perhaps it might be worth undertaking a pillaging exercise in Huayna's lands whilst we wait for reinforcements. Both to deny him resources such as horses and to make us some gold. After all we're not going to be settling the majority of it.

After this war is over I think we need to build up a decent attack force, build up our infrastructure so we can get military faster without having to ship it over and crack on with science.

I'm getting a bit worried about how near some of the AI may be getting to space although we still have some leeway.

Thrallia · Oct 3, 2006

it looks like once we take Huayna out, Khan was weakened enough in our war with him that we might be able to take him down once we get a turnset of troop production done. As for Mao, I would have agreed if I had paid more attention to the power graph and seen he was #1. Hopefully that doesn't bite us, cause that'd be a bigger issue than simply having a bad RNG.

agreed about Cuzco, it has fairly good defense, and we'll need at least 4 cannons to take it down, I upgraded 4 of those 5 cavs next to Cuzco with combat 1 and gunpowder(pinch?), and the other with medic, so they could either pillage or charge up to Cori and help take down Huamanga and Ollant in the north. Since I had to raze Machu, we may want to keep Cuzco or Huamanga as another larger sized troop center.

Sam_Yeager · Oct 3, 2006

Thrallia said:
it looks like once we take Huayna out, Khan was weakened enough in our war with him that we might be able to take him down once we get a turnset of troop production done. As for Mao, I would have agreed if I had paid more attention to the power graph and seen he was #1. Hopefully that doesn't bite us, cause that'd be a bigger issue than simply having a bad RNG.

Khan still seems to be pleased with us. Perhaps we might do better to see if we can get another OB with him and attack Mao first. :evil:

Sam_Yeager · Oct 4, 2006

Roster :

klarius - up
markh - on deck
Sam Yeager
Thrallia - just played

trippstowe and juballs on automatic skip until they post to be available again.

klarius · Oct 4, 2006

I got it. Hope to play in the evening.
I don't see that we can gain anything by the war against Huayna in the next 10 turns.
There are no siege weapons available so attacking a city with cav against rifles would be suicide.
I think, it's better to stop warring now to get rid of war weariness.

Thrallia · Oct 4, 2006

perhaps if we go for Mao next, we could get Khan to help us, if he really is pleased with us.

klarius · Oct 6, 2006

Well, I played.

I wanted to tidy up our fronts by a small war with the Khan (not so many cities behind our lines). That worked fine, but Mao got pulled in and now he's coming after us with infantry :eek:

.

Turn log:
Turn 0 1718:
Looking around. I don't see any chance for a succesful attack in the next few turns.
War weariness is high, even another 10% lux will not completely eliminate it.
I make a cease fire with Huayna. We can attack again any time, if I think I find enough forces.
Turn up science to 100, to get this research out of the way.
Steam power is only good for the worker speed currently.
We need 3 other techs to open up assembly line and then we would still need rifling to build infantry.
That isn't happening anytime soon. But we should have rifling to get a few decent defenders.
I don't think we get a chance to trade, so we will have to research it.

Turn 1 1721:
Peace treaty with Kublai is over. Sell him crabs for 9gpt and make open border.
I would like to attack him a little, but that will also take some turns.
Gearmany has built a town near Timbuktu.

Turn 2 1724:
Ask for a gift from Bismarck and get 100g.
Ship chain a few units, so they will arrive faster.

Turn 3 1727:
Steam power is in -> rifling.
Move towards Otrar (Kublai). That's not much of a city, but I hate Kublai being behind our lines.

Turn 4 1730:
No war with Kublai. Don't want again to lose fishing nets.
Germany made peace with Huayna.

Turn 5 1732:
Now war with Kublai. Move in on Otrar. Start bombarding New Sarai with frrigates.
Move in on Tiflis and capture a worker.
Cori... just came out of resistance last turn and now has a Mongol revolt.

Turn 6 1734:
Take Otrar and Gao. horsehockey towns, but I don't want anybody else to move into our backyard.

IBT:
Lose a cav against a cannon counter attack near New Sarai

.
Lose a returning galleon.
But now the big problem:
Mao declares war. Moves in with 2 frigates and 1 galleon on the islands and starts to destroy nets.

Turn 7 1736:
Move troops around. Bombard Tiflis.
Pull some frigates back from New Sarai to counter Mao.
Sink 1 frigate.

Turn 8 1738:
Capture new Sarai. City raider 3 grenadiers had no problem with the rifles, though there was still a little cultural defense left.
Sink the chinese galleon with 3 cavs (phew, they could have taken one of our islands even with the amphibious penalty).

Turn 9 1740:
Kill a chinese cav near New Sarai. But there is still another one.
And there is chinese infantry coming in.
We will not be able to hold it. I pull back our troops towards Cori...
Capture Tiflis for the loss of one cannon.
One less civ on our home island.
Sink a frigate near our homeland.
I wanted to stop here for the even turn, but hit enter by accident.
Anyway I have to stop, because I don't have more time right now and don't want to keep it another day.

IBT:
China razes New Sarai and kills one of our cavs.

We should try to make stand against China in Cori....
This will already cost quite a bit.
If not for the war with China, I would have already resumed war with Huayna.
We should probably anyway do it. We now have the kind of troops around to take it to his big cities.
But war weariness will come back in force - 10 turns don't reduce it much.

I cannot get to gotm server currently so I attach the save.

Sam_Yeager · Oct 6, 2006

klarius said:
IBT:
China razes New Sarai and kills one of our cavs.

I'm sure Kublai appreciated that. :lol:

klarius said:
We should try to make stand against China in Cori....
This will already cost quite a bit.
If not for the war with China, I would have already resumed war with Huayna.
We should probably anyway do it. We now have the kind of troops around to take it to his big cities.
But war weariness will come back in force - 10 turns don't reduce it much.

I agree about the stand but I would like see peace against Kublai & Mao soonest (once they will talk that is) and certainly before we attack Huayna again.

It looks to me that we will need to have two substantial stacks of forces for future wars. Mainly so that we can divide the AI's forces and get these wars over faster. Certainy this will be needed for the Kublai/Mao war. Three stacks might be even better.

Of course we also need the research. Seems like we will have to consolidate soon. From what I can see we are bottom for GNP. :eek:

EDIT: The GOTM server is back so I've uploaded the save file on behalf of klarius.

Sam_Yeager · Oct 7, 2006

Roster :

klarius - just played
markh - up
Sam Yeager - on deck
Thrallia

trippstowe and juballs on automatic skip until they post to be available again.

markh · Oct 7, 2006

Ok, I got it. I will play tomorrow.

SGOTM 02 - Geezers

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