SGOTM 02 - Memphis Blues

[Frederiksberg]

I think we have to discover mining before we found the city if we're going to found it here. Unless I’m mistaken (and that never happens - umm I mean please point out if I am) when we found this city our research rate will drop to 0% - we simply won’t have enough commerce to support our maintenance costs. If we have mining and bang out a worker, then we should recover quite quickly – not only will the worker prevent any growth while it is being built (and therefore any growth related maintenance), but mining the gems should give us back some science, whilst growing, and then mining gold should put us in profit with a pop 2 city. We should have time to build more defense before turn 42 and the barbs come round.

If we found Tokyo and then research mining it'll take an age to research it won't it? Or am I missing something...

Allow me to point out D ) that allthough Tokyo will not pay for itself (mainenance of 7 or 8 gpt income of 4 gpt) we still have Kyoto to pay. I don't recall how much gold the Palace generates - is it 6 gpt? That would make it a total of 10 gpt in Kyoto and we would be able to run science at 50%-60%.
Im sure that ShannonCT will come back with some more accurate numbers .

 

[ShannonCT]

You're right , switching immediately to mining and waiting before settling, make more sense... Netvertheless I'm not sure our science rate will drop to zero if we settle.

No, just to 50%

I think we have to discover mining before we found the city if we're going to found it here. Unless I’m mistaken (and that never happens - umm I mean please point out if I am) when we found this city our research rate will drop to 0% - we simply won’t have enough commerce to support our maintenance costs. If we have mining and bang out a worker, then we should recover quite quickly – not only will the worker prevent any growth while it is being built (and therefore any growth related maintenance), but mining the gems should give us back some science, whilst growing, and then mining gold should put us in profit with a pop 2 city. We should have time to build more defense before turn 42 and the barbs come round.

If we found Tokyo and then research mining it'll take an age to research it won't it? Or am I missing something...

The limiting factor is actually the worker. I ran the test with the same 9 tiles:
1. Switched to mining right away (on turn 2)
2. Ran the settler back to the plains hill and settled on turn 5.
3. Maintenance is -8, work the oasis, 18 turns to produce a worker, 11 turns to mining.
4. Explore with the warrior.
5. Mining at turn 16.
6. Worker at turn 23, start building gems mine (to sustain growth).
7. Hunting at turn 25.
8. Worker finishes mine (I still chose to work the oasis until Pop2 but could work gems mine now for faster production and more money). Worker builds road to gems and then goes to mine the gold.
9. Warrior built on turn 34. Staying home. Original worker looks for a place to bust fog on the gems side.
10. Archery at turn 35. Start building archer.
11. First archer built on turn 43, just in time. Barbs expected soon.
12. Bronze Working at turn 48. Barbs start attacking. Using the warrior to move around to the different forest tiles in our borders to bait them.
13. As soon as gold mine is finished, shift from oasis to gold mine (still at Pop2). No growth but faster unit production for a few turns.
14. Second archer at turn 51, sent out for fog busting.
15. Pottery Turn 58.
16. Writing Turn 71!!! (10 turns faster than any of my previous tries)

After the second archer we can make a judgement call about whether we want barracks, more archers, or a scout.

So going for mining and a worker first, we can have an archer and a warrior in Osaka before the barbs attack. Their is little chance of them capturing Osaka. Their is some chance of having a mine pillaged. The one time in my test that a barb was sitting on my gem mine, he decided to attack rather than pillage. Even if it gets pillaged, the woker has plenty of time on his hands.


Edit: turn 9 should say: original warrior looks for a place to bust fog...

Edit: Looking more closely at the screenshot from Mad Professor, it will take 3 turns to get to either of the proposed settling sites, and settling will occur on turn 6, not 5. This will if anything speed up the ealry techs by 1 turn. And it will push back the worker and warrior 1 turn each. I dont think this affects our decision.

 

[BSouder]

I forget, does the oasis count as fresh water for the city for health purposes? If not then the plains hill is giving up the medium and long term benefit of fresh water for city growth potential. Granted, hopefully we win before our cities get too big but that city will also have the potential to grow pretty fast with the oasis, flood plains, sheep and rice.

Settling in either place (on the hill or 1NE of it) it looks like we will need to be able support a population of 7 to be able to work all of the resource tiles in the fat cross, and that would mean either not working the oasis or a floodplain. We won't be able to count on the health resources in Kyoto for a while either.

The other factor I see that is making me strongly consider the square 1NE of the hill is...It's going to be a while before we get a culture expansion and the gems on the river will give us 1 more commerce than the gems not on a river or the oasis. The hill gets the river gems, but not until a border expansion where the plains tile gets both off the bat. The downside is that the non-hill site misses the oasis until a border expansion so misses the 3 food square and also loses the extra hammer in the city square. All in all I don't think it's a cut and dried decision.

 

[Frederiksberg]

After the second archer we can make a judgement call about whether we want barracks, more archers, or a scout.

So going for mining and a worker first, we can have an archer and a warrior in Osaka before the barbs attack. Their is little chance of them capturing Osaka. Their is some chance of having a mine pillaged. The one time in my test that a barb was sitting on my gem mine, he decided to attack rather than pillage. Even if it gets pillaged, the woker has plenty of time on his hands.

Nice work .

It looks like researching Mining early and building an early worker is feasible from a defensive point of view. Maybe we can allow Hunting to be discovered before switching since it's the building of the worker that limits the time before we have our first mine. Ideally we need one archer for city defense and one archer for defending the gold mine before the barbs attack. If we can manage that we will certainly survive the first wave of barbs and producing more archers will allow us to set up a defensive line of fortified archers around the city.

 

[radiopill]

The limiting factor is actually the worker. I ran the test with the same 9 tiles:
1. Switched to mining right away (on turn 2)
2. Ran the settler back to the plains hill and settled on turn 5.
3. Maintenance is -8, work the oasis, 18 turns to produce a worker, 11 turns to mining.
4. Explore with the warrior.
5. Mining at turn 16.
6. Worker at turn 23, start building gems mine (to sustain growth).
7. Hunting at turn 25.
8. Worker finishes mine (I still chose to work the oasis until Pop2 but could work gems mine now for faster production and more money). Worker builds road to gems and then goes to mine the gold.
9. Warrior built on turn 34. Staying home. Original worker looks for a place to bust fog on the gems side.
10. Archery at turn 35. Start building archer.
11. First archer built on turn 43, just in time. Barbs expected soon.
12. Bronze Working at turn 48. Barbs start attacking. Using the warrior to move around to the different forest tiles in our borders to bait them.
13. As soon as gold mine is finished, shift from oasis to gold mine (still at Pop2). No growth but faster unit production for a few turns.
14. Second archer at turn 51, sent out for fog busting.
15. Pottery Turn 58.
16. Writing Turn 71!!! (10 turns faster than any of my previous tries)

After the second archer we can make a judgement call about whether we want barracks, more archers, or a scout.

So going for mining and a worker first, we can have an archer and a warrior in Osaka before the barbs attack. Their is little chance of them capturing Osaka. Their is some chance of having a mine pillaged. The one time in my test that a barb was sitting on my gem mine, he decided to attack rather than pillage. Even if it gets pillaged, the woker has plenty of time on his hands.

Great job (as always )

I think we have a good guideline for the coming turnset...

 

[Frederiksberg]

I forget, does the oasis count as fresh water for the city for health purposes? If not then the plains hill is giving up the medium and long term benefit of fresh water for city growth potential. Granted, hopefully we win before our cities get too big but that city will also have the potential to grow pretty fast with the oasis, flood plains, sheep and rice.

Settling in either place (on the hill or 1NE of it) it looks like we will need to be able support a population of 7 to be able to work all of the resource tiles in the fat cross, and that would mean either not working the oasis or a floodplain. We won't be able to count on the health resources in Kyoto for a while either.

The other factor I see that is making me strongly consider the square 1NE of the hill is...It's going to be a while before we get a culture expansion and the gems on the river will give us 1 more commerce than the gems not on a river or the oasis. The hill gets the river gems, but not until a border expansion where the plains tile gets both off the bat. The downside is that the non-hill site misses the oasis until a border expansion so misses the 3 food square and also loses the extra hammer in the city square. All in all I don't think it's a cut and dried decision.

I'm pretty sure that the oasis gives us fresh water - Mad Professor can verify this from the game. It will take a lot longer to build the worker if we move to the plains tile NE because we loose one hammer and one food. Furthermore I doubt that we will be able to defend the gem mine from pillaging in the early phase of the game whereas the gold mine is almost untouchable with a fortified archer on top. We also loose the extra city defense coming from the hill.

 

[ShannonCT]

I forget, does the oasis count as fresh water for the city for health purposes? If not then the plains hill is giving up the medium and long term benefit of fresh water for city growth potential. Granted, hopefully we win before our cities get too big but that city will also have the potential to grow pretty fast with the oasis, flood plains, sheep and rice.

Settling in either place (on the hill or 1NE of it) it looks like we will need to be able support a population of 7 to be able to work all of the resource tiles in the fat cross, and that would mean either not working the oasis or a floodplain. We won't be able to count on the health resources in Kyoto for a while either.

The other factor I see that is making me strongly consider the square 1NE of the hill is...It's going to be a while before we get a culture expansion and the gems on the river will give us 1 more commerce than the gems not on a river or the oasis. The hill gets the river gems, but not until a border expansion where the plains tile gets both off the bat. The downside is that the non-hill site misses the oasis until a border expansion so misses the 3 food square and also loses the extra hammer in the city square. All in all I don't think it's a cut and dried decision.

The oasis does count as a fresh water source. Settling on the plains hill, we get +2 health from fresh water, +3 from forests, and +2 for free. If we settle on the hill, I doubt Osaka will grow to 7 before its cultural expansion because working the oasis, gems, and gold nets only 1 surplus food. If we go for the mysticism, polytheism, preisthood track after writing, we'll have the option to build an obelisk to get some of those growth resources.

The one thing I think the spot to the NE has going for it is that a city there can grow faster working the two gems and the sheep (2 surplus food), than a city on the hill working the oasis, gems, and gold (1 surplus). But the money is just as good or better on the hill with the 2 GPT from the oasis vs. 1 for the unimproved sheep, and the gold mine equaling the river gems mine. At pop3, the hill city gets 7 food (1 surplus), 6 hammers, and 17 GPT (2 + 2 + 6 + 7). The river plains city gets 8 food (2 surplus), 4 hammers, and 16 GPT (2 + 1 + 6 + 7). Admittedly, the river plains city could grow to size 4 (and 5 and 6) faster and add 1 more hammer with no change in food surplus or 2 hammers with a decrease of 1 in food surplus. But it will be hard for it to get any more GPT and then the higher maintenance actually makes growing a money loser.

The other big issue is the first 45 turns. The extra hammer from the plains hill with the oasis gets our worker out 5 turns sooner, our first warrior and archers out sooner, and our first population growth sooner. I haven't tested that site but I think that going for mining and a worker from the plains site might put us in serious risk of being overrun by barbs. Then we'd have to go for archery before mining.

I don't see why we should get hunting before mining since I don't think we will be building a scout in the first 25 turns. If we finish hunting first, then I believe mining comes in at turn 25, whereas our worker can be done on turn 23.

 

[ShannonCT]

I'm pretty sure that the oasis gives us fresh water - Mad Professor can verify this from the game. It will take a lot longer to build the worker if we move to the plains tile NE because we loose one hammer and one food. Furthermore I doubt that we will be able to defend the gem mine from pillaging in the early phase of the game whereas the gold mine is almost untouchable with a fortified archer on top. We also loose the extra city defense coming from the hill.

In my test I went for the gems mine first to speed up growth to pop3, but it may be better to go for the gold mine first since it gives 2 more hammers and is more easily defended. The extra hammers would mean getting warriors/archers to fog bust earlier and then when the worker finish the gems mine, we could switch to that to get to pop3 faster. If it gets pillaged, we can switch back to the gold mine for a bit.

 

[KingdomBrunel]

I don't recall how much gold the Palace generates - is it 6 gpt?

Thanks the palace was what I was missing - it's not listed as giving any commerce in the reference charts I have here. A search though gave me http://forums.civfanatics.com/archive/index.php/t-144304.html which suggests 8gpt. If that's the case, then as far as I'm concerned go for it, settle ASAP.

In terms of the plains versus plains hill note that the site next to the river will cost any barbs a 50% penalty if they attack over it. Both are good sites I think. Don't mind which is chosen.

 

[ShannonCT]

After Mad Professor settles on one of the two tiles we're debating, it seems like it would be fine for him to play out his turnset unless he discovers something else shocking. I dont think we need another debate at turn 10 now.

 

[Frederiksberg]

The oasis does count as a fresh water source. Settling on the plains hill, we get +2 health from fresh water, +3 from forests, and +2 for free. If we settle on the hill, I doubt Osaka will grow to 7 before its cultural expansion because working the oasis, gems, and gold nets only 1 surplus food. If we go for the mysticism, polytheism, preisthood track after writing, we'll have the option to build an obelisk to get some of those growth resources.

The one thing I think the spot to the NE has going for it is that a city there can grow faster working the two gems and the sheep (2 surplus food), than a city on the hill working the oasis, gems, and gold (1 surplus). But the money is just as good or better on the hill with the 2 GPT from the oasis vs. 1 for the unimproved sheep, and the gold mine equaling the river gems mine. At pop3, the hill city gets 7 food (1 surplus), 6 hammers, and 17 GPT (2 + 2 + 6 + 7). The river plains city gets 8 food (2 surplus), 4 hammers, and 16 GPT (2 + 1 + 6 + 7). Admittedly, the river plains city could grow to size 4 (and 5 and 6) faster and add 1 more hammer with no change in food surplus or 2 hammers with a decrease of 1 in food surplus. But it will be hard for it to get any more GPT and then the higher maintenance actually makes growing a money loser.

The other big issue is the first 45 turns. The extra hammer from the plains hill with the oasis gets our worker out 5 turns sooner, our first warrior and archers out sooner, and our first population growth sooner. I haven't tested that site but I think that going for mining and a worker from the plains site might put us in serious risk of being overrun by barbs. Then we'd have to go for archery before mining.

Good analysis. And might I add that the improved defensibility of the plains hill city and the gold mine should also be taken into account. The sheep tile is not important before we have researched AH and the pasture will not be easy to defend from pillaging early on.

I don't see why we should get hunting before mining since I don't think we will be building a scout in the first 25 turns. If we finish hunting first, then I believe mining comes in at turn 25, whereas our worker can be done on turn 23.

I think I read somewhere that switching away from a tech will cause some loss of beakers, but I have never tested this. Anyway it's probably more important that we get the mine as fast as possible.

 

[Frederiksberg]

After Mad Professor settles on one of the two tiles we're debating, it seems like it would be fine for him to play out his turnset unless he discovers something else shocking. I dont think we need another debate at turn 10 now.

- play your remaining 18 turns.

Don't forget to do some more scouting with the warrior - we badly need this information to locate copper or iron later.

 

[ShannonCT]

Don't forget to do some more scouting with the warrior - we badly need this information to locate copper or iron later.

Yes, we need information about bronze/iron and to determine good points to set up a defense perimeter. Ideally, we would find bronze in the same direction that we want to make our first attack (I think it is too much to hope for that Osaka will have bronze), so that our third city would be closer to our intended victim than Osaka is, thus shortening movement times. In which direction do you think we should look to attack first? Due NW would be best for getting closer to Kyoto but clearly that is not an option. I guess NE is the next best. We're still going to be 5-6 turns south of Kyoto when we settle. Moving 4 more tiles east puts us at the east-west opposite of Kyoto but anything east of that gets us closer again.

Another good task for the warrior would be to try to get 2 XPs for the woodsman or cover promotion. Either of these would make it more useful in the defense perimeter. That would require one successful attack against and animal or two successful defenses. Attacking anything but a wolf is pretty risky. Defending against a wolf, lion or panther in a forest or forest hill is usually a win.

The second player will have to be mindful that the warrior will need to be placed in an advantageous spot by the end of his turn and prepare for the barbarian onslaught that will come after turn 42.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Yes, we need information about bronze/iron and to determine good points to set up a defense perimeter. Ideally, we would find bronze in the same direction that we want to make our first attack (I think it is too much to hope for that Osaka will have bronze), so that our third city would be closer to our intended victim than Osaka is, thus shortening movement times. In which direction do you think we should look to attack first? Due NW would be best for getting closer to Kyoto but clearly that is not an option. I guess NE is the next best. We're still going to be 5-6 turns south of Kyoto when we settle. Moving 4 more tiles east puts us at the east-west opposite of Kyoto but anything east of that gets us closer again.

I loaded the start save and toggled on the resource display. The arrows point N meaning that we are on the southern hemisphere. Thus it's likely that most of the land on our continent is to the north. Exploring in the NE direction will probably bring us closer to our neighbours (if we have any) and as you mention we will also start getting closer to Kyoto after a short while. If our scouting warrior stays as much as possible in the forrest and on hills he may live to get back an tell the tale....

 

[Mad Professor]

Good discussion. Nice to see. Some good analysis too - hard numbers and real tests are so much more reassuring than guesses! Thankyou.

I'll play the next 18 turns today sometime (ie within the next 12 hours) and post results.

I think I lean towards the plains hill for settling. Given the test ShannonCT ran, I'm more comfortable about switching to mining straight away and putting out a worker first. The extra hammer from the plains hill though becomes important if we do the worker first - we want that worker out faster so we can get back to military by the time barbarian units encroach our perimeter.

I'll do some more exploring with the warrior, and I'll don't think I'll have trouble getting him a promotion (as long as he survives) since I expect to find plenty of animals to fight - though it will be all defense for me. I find at Monarch and higher, the animals have no hesitation attacking you if they can reach you, and that way you can take advantage of the forest defensive bonus of 50% plus any wodsman promotions you have. I also like woodsman II for scouting units, particularly warriors, because it allows the warrior to move two tiles a turn as long as the first turn's movement is into a forest or jungle tile. That makes a warrior with woodsman II as good as a scout for exploring new territory quickly when there's lots of available forest or jungle.

 

[Mad Professor]

Decided to play straight away rather than later.

I open the file again, it's 3970BC. I switch straight to mining, leaving hunting at 12/88 beakers. Minig costs 111, which wil ltake 10 turns at the current rate. The current rate won't be kept up all that time though.

Turn 3 3940BC: Units move

Turn 4 3910BC: Meet Isabella! The surprises continue. I've NEVER been so close to another civ before. I see her scout just south of where the settler is in the west. She's +0 (of course) which apparently means "Annoyed" - that's agressive AI's for you.

Turn 5 3880BC: Warrior sees a second Isabella scout near the river in the east. Isabella's home must be south of us there somewhere. The settler sees a second oasis from the gold hill. That plains hill spot really is a plumb city location.

Turn 6 3850BC: Settler arrives at plains hill

Turn 7 3820BC: Warrior sees stone, a hut, and a coast in the north east. Osaka is established on the plains hill, we start on a worker, which apparently will take 18 turns. Am working the oasis (3 food, 2 gold)

Turn 8 3790BC: Science drops to 50% as expected, mining is now still 7 turns away. The hut near the warrior disappeared, but I didn't see anyone take it. Maybe Isabella's scout came out of the black, took the hut, then moved on back into the black. If so, then Isabella has THREE scouts, because I can see two near Osaka. Also, there are lions near Osaka. Good time to have that settler no longer alone. Kyoto's borders expend, and we can see 2 more islands to the north, with stone and cows on them. The resource bubbles are the other way on these islands, indicating that Kyoto is only just south of the equator. Because the land to the north is islands, we still don't know if we have contact with a landmass with a civ on it yet. We DO have room for another city there though with only a very smal overlap with Kyoto, and able to grab cows and stone.

Turn 8 and turn 10: nothing happening.

Turn 11 3700BC: Warrior is attacked by panthers in the jungle. He wins, but is baddly wounded - we were very unlucky! Move warrior to jungle hill to heal.

Turn 12 3670BC: Warrior begins healing

Turn 13 and 14: Nothing happening, though Isabella's score increases early.

Turn 15 3580BC: We discover mining, and go back to hunting which is still at 12/88 sothere was no penalty for swapping techs. It says hunting will take 11 turns.

Turns 16 and 17: nothing happening

Turn 18 3490BC: Kyoto grows to size 2. I start working a fish tile, increaseing commerce, and keeping the growth going.

Turn 19 3460BC: Now we're making +1gpt at 50% science because of Kyoto growth (and science is one beaker more per turn)

Turn 20 3430BC: Warrior finally fully healed, continues exploring.

The work boat in Kyoto is 4 turns away, and growth to size 3 is 16 turns away. As I said, Kyoto is right near the equator, just south.

The worker in Osaka is 5 turns away, and hunting is 5 turns away.

Here's the turn log the site gave me when I uploaded the save:

Here is your Session Turn Log from 4000 BC to 3430 BC:


Turn 6, 3820 BC: Osaka has been founded.
Turn 6, 3820 BC: The borders of Kyoto have expanded!

Turn 9, 3730 BC: Barbarian's Panther (2.00) vs Memphis Blues's Warrior (3.60)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: Combat Odds: 2.9%
Turn 9, 3730 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 15 (40/100HP)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 15 (25/100HP)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Panther!

Turn 13, 3610 BC: You have discovered Mining!

The save is on the progress page, so download it and look at it if you wish, but here are some screen shots for you to look at otherwise:

 

[Mad Professor]

Here's the playing roster:

Mad Professor (just played)
Frederiksberg (up next)
Radiopill
KingdomBrunel
ShannonCT
BSouder

We're playing 20 turns per turnset for now.

 

[radiopill]

Decided to play straight away rather than later.

I open the file again, it's 3970BC. I switch straight to mining, leaving hunting at 12/88 beakers. Minig costs 111, which wil ltake 10 turns at the current rate. The current rate won't be kept up all that time though.

Turn 3 3940BC: Units move

Turn 4 3910BC: Meet Isabella! The surprises continue. I've NEVER been so close to another civ before. I see her scout just south of where the settler is in the west. She's +0 (of course) which apparently means "Annoyed" - that's agressive AI's for you.

Turn 5 3880BC: Warrior sees a second Isabella scout near the river in the east. Isabella's home must be south of us there somewhere. The settler sees a second oasis from the gold hill. That plains hill spot really is a plumb city location.

Turn 6 3850BC: Settler arrives at plains hill

Turn 7 3820BC: Warrior sees stone, a hut, and a coast in the north east. Osaka is established on the plains hill, we start on a worker, which apparently will take 18 turns. Am working the oasis (3 food, 2 gold)

Turn 8 3790BC: Science drops to 50% as expected, mining is now still 7 turns away. The hut near the warrior disappeared, but I didn't see anyone take it. Maybe Isabella's scout came out of the black, took the hut, then moved on back into the black. If so, then Isabella has THREE scouts, because I can see two near Osaka. Also, there are lions near Osaka. Good time to have that settler no longer alone. Kyoto's borders expend, and we can see 2 more islands to the north, with stone and cows on them. The resource bubbles are the other way on these islands, indicating that Kyoto is only just south of the equator. Because the land to the north is islands, we still don't know if we have contact with a landmass with a civ on it yet. We DO have room for another city there though with only a very smal overlap with Kyoto, and able to grab cows and stone.

Turn 8 and turn 10: nothing happening.

Turn 11 3700BC: Warrior is attacked by panthers in the jungle. He wins, but is baddly wounded - we were very unlucky! Move warrior to jungle hill to heal.

Turn 12 3670BC: Warrior begins healing

Turn 13 and 14: Nothing happening, though Isabella's score increases early.

Turn 15 3580BC: We discover mining, and go back to hunting which is still at 12/88 sothere was no penalty for swapping techs. It says hunting will take 11 turns.

Turns 16 and 17: nothing happening

Turn 18 3490BC: Kyoto grows to size 2. I start working a fish tile, increaseing commerce, and keeping the growth going.

Turn 19 3460BC: Now we're making +1gpt at 50% science because of Kyoto growth (and science is one beaker more per turn)

Turn 20 3430BC: Warrior finally fully healed, continues exploring.

The work boat in Kyoto is 4 turns away, and growth to size 3 is 16 turns away. As I said, Kyoto is right near the equator, just south.

The worker in Osaka is 5 turns away, and hunting is 5 turns away.

Here's the turn log the site gave me when I uploaded the save:

Here is your Session Turn Log from 4000 BC to 3430 BC:


Turn 6, 3820 BC: Osaka has been founded.
Turn 6, 3820 BC: The borders of Kyoto have expanded!

Turn 9, 3730 BC: Barbarian's Panther (2.00) vs Memphis Blues's Warrior (3.60)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: Combat Odds: 2.9%
Turn 9, 3730 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 15 (40/100HP)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 15 (25/100HP)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 9, 3730 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Panther!

Turn 13, 3610 BC: You have discovered Mining!

The save is on the progress page, so download it and look at it if you wish, but here are some screen shots for you to look at otherwise:

Nice turns
So now we know our first victim Let's hope she's pretty enougth to build us a nice holy shrine in our next city...

 

[Frederiksberg]

Yes, well done Mad Professor.

I will probably play tonight - that's 8 hours from now - since we probably don't need a lot of discussion. I will more or less follow ShannonCT's test game allthough I might choose to mine the gold first in order to get more hammers for building archers. Any strong opinions on that? When Kyoto is done with the work boat I will start building another one. I will go south with the warrior and try to locate Madrid and time it so that he will be able to return around turn 42 when barbs start to appear. Tech path is of course Archery followed by BW.

 

[radiopill]

I will more or less follow ShannonCT's test game allthough I might choose to mine the gold first in order to get more hammers for building archers. Any strong opinions on that?

Yes, go for the gold first, it'll be easier to defend than the gem, and it gives more

When Kyoto is done with the work boat I will start building another one. I will go south with the warrior and try to locate Madrid and time it so that he will be able to return around turn 42 when barbs start to appear. Tech path is of course Archery followed by BW.

No other comment, so good luck