regoarrarr
King
No - I'd definitely move it as Snaproll moved it. If the barb then moves 1N, you can move back to the city. If it moves 1W, probably have good odds to whack it on open ground
SGOTM 02 - The Real Ms. Beyond
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Actually, I believe it will attack me in the trees and (HOPEFULLY) just die. I'm 95% sure that's what will happen based on my experience, but I'm not sure.
I'm going to not-whip the archer in Osaka and hope to all heck the warrior can defend.
I'm going to not-whip the archer in Osaka and hope to all heck the warrior can defend.
ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
I agree with the move of the warrior into the trees to defend copper city. But I would move a warrior over to copper city to help. And the no-whip archer sounds good too.
Kodii
Ka ICE
That sounds great to me too. Don't rush the archer, but have a back-up warrior just in case.
EL_OSO
Warlord
The warrior into the forest is the right move. I wouldn't whip the archer unless it was the last resort.
I've played the first 4 turns and boy, are they nerve-wracking. We had some setbacks but fortunately nothing too major, but I wanted to pause for a moment. First, a summary:
I moved the warrior out of Tokyo into the trees as suggested but I also moved our wounded worker that was East of Osaka towards Tokyo to get another unit over there, which proved to be a mistake. I should have let him finish healing, because he revealed yet another barb warrior who attacked him on the hill, and won:
So, we've lost that warrior. And, as you can see, I had to move the wounded warrior to protect the worker as that same barb warrior could've reached him over the roads! I promoted the warrior to shock to help out. Meanwhile Izzy showed up with another settler pair north of Osaka:
Kyoto also grew into unhappiness but I don't really see anything we can do about that. Nothing really useful to whip at this point. The only thing I can see doing is starting a settler so that when we get sailing we'll have one ready. To decide that, however, we need to decide if we are committed to settling the nearby islands, the pros and cons of which we've discussed but could use resolution.
We've got enough money now for an axe upgrade, so I think we should turn on research again. Are we in a strictly binary research mode?
Izzy founded Cordoba north of Osaka and I moved Magnet Man, slightly wounded but with a new shiny cover promotion to the gold hill, as I expect the archer to attack the city next turn and if it defeats one of our warriors I want a backup. Turns out that this was a bad move as well because the archer simply attacked magnet man instead, and defeated him. I feel bad about that - I guess that was weedy. Still, magnet man almost won... And the archer was easily cleaned up the next turn.
Copper has been successfully hooked up, but I think we should hold off on promoting a warrior until we identify the next major threat. We lost two warriors so far, and are down to three warriors and an archer, total.
I set Osaka back to working both gems, but doing so makes it 13 turns to get the first axeman (except for the one we cash-upgrade). I could work the plains forest hill and get it in 7 turns, I believe, but we'd be stagnant.
Any thoughts?
I moved the warrior out of Tokyo into the trees as suggested but I also moved our wounded worker that was East of Osaka towards Tokyo to get another unit over there, which proved to be a mistake. I should have let him finish healing, because he revealed yet another barb warrior who attacked him on the hill, and won:
So, we've lost that warrior. And, as you can see, I had to move the wounded warrior to protect the worker as that same barb warrior could've reached him over the roads! I promoted the warrior to shock to help out. Meanwhile Izzy showed up with another settler pair north of Osaka:
Kyoto also grew into unhappiness but I don't really see anything we can do about that. Nothing really useful to whip at this point. The only thing I can see doing is starting a settler so that when we get sailing we'll have one ready. To decide that, however, we need to decide if we are committed to settling the nearby islands, the pros and cons of which we've discussed but could use resolution.
We've got enough money now for an axe upgrade, so I think we should turn on research again. Are we in a strictly binary research mode?
Izzy founded Cordoba north of Osaka and I moved Magnet Man, slightly wounded but with a new shiny cover promotion to the gold hill, as I expect the archer to attack the city next turn and if it defeats one of our warriors I want a backup. Turns out that this was a bad move as well because the archer simply attacked magnet man instead, and defeated him. I feel bad about that - I guess that was weedy. Still, magnet man almost won... And the archer was easily cleaned up the next turn.
Copper has been successfully hooked up, but I think we should hold off on promoting a warrior until we identify the next major threat. We lost two warriors so far, and are down to three warriors and an archer, total.
I set Osaka back to working both gems, but doing so makes it 13 turns to get the first axeman (except for the one we cash-upgrade). I could work the plains forest hill and get it in 7 turns, I believe, but we'd be stagnant.
Any thoughts?
ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
Good job on getting that copper hooked up and on noticing that the warrior on the road can run over the worker! Bad luck about Magnet man - guess I should have named him 'Never Attack Me Man' - then he would have been save. I would love to know how the Barbs work out who they will attack.
regoarrarr
King
I don't know about settling those islands near Kyoto. If we put a 2nd city there, yes, we can move the palace to the "mainland", but then with 2 cities far away, we're going to be in the same pickle we're in currently
Kodii
Ka ICE
I think we should settle those islands at some point.
We need a certain number of cities to build a palace, correct? (Four... on standard map?). If we have have more than 3 cities on the "mainland" when we switch our palace (given we found a city on Cattle Island, and one on Stone Island), our economy will be significantly improved anyways... I hope that makes sense. It makes sense in my head but I cant get it out in words
We need a certain number of cities to build a palace, correct? (Four... on standard map?). If we have have more than 3 cities on the "mainland" when we switch our palace (given we found a city on Cattle Island, and one on Stone Island), our economy will be significantly improved anyways... I hope that makes sense. It makes sense in my head but I cant get it out in words
Compromise
Emperor
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Ouch; losing those warriors hurt. Don't forget that you can interrupt the Worker's action, move him along a road to scout, and move him back to the worksite and still get just as much mining done as if he'd never moved. Also, that hill where our wounded warrior died is a good spot for a sentry. Magnet man should have been inside Osaka from the beginning of the turnset to build up fortify bonuses.
But enough of the water under the bridge. Let's look to the future.
I think we should hold off on promoting our two remaining warriors to axemen until we need one of them promoted.
I'd make another archer in Osaka and send it to Tokyo to relieve the warrior there of flatland-city defense stress.
I'd also like to throw out the following strategy: After Sailing, go for Code of Laws with all reasonable haste. (I'd recommend binary science so we have money for emergency warrior->axeman upgrading, plus the possibility of an Academy-enhanced research rate.)
At the same time, get cities founded on each of the two little islands near Kyoto. They'll more than pay for themselves while Kyoto is our capital.
If we concentrate on building Courthouses, I think we can keep the expenses somewhat reasonable, especially if we're able to work the Gem and Gold mines, at least until we have 6 Courthouses and 8 cities and can build our Forbidden Palace. It will depend on how the map reveals itself, of course, but I'd rather build the Forbidden Palace over on the Osaka continent than simply move the Capital.
Pretty soon, we need to send a scout up to Isabella's lands to plan our attack route. I think an Archer would be an okay troop to do this.
Also, I think the order of Spanish city names is:
Madrid (Capital)
Barcelona
Seville
Cordoba
Toledo (Ohio)
Santiago
Salamanca
(If Isabella founds more than that, we're not making par.)
Summary of my opinions:
Archer, then axes for Osaka.
Obelisk, Workboat, Axes for Tokyo
Settlers (2), Galley when possible, Worker (for Cows), Workboats in Kyoto; order TBD
Archer to scout Isabella's real estate leases.
Re-mine gold mine
Primary duty of guards in Osaka, Tokyo: Protect mines, protect road, live
Courthouses all around when possible.
But enough of the water under the bridge. Let's look to the future.
I think we should hold off on promoting our two remaining warriors to axemen until we need one of them promoted.
I'd make another archer in Osaka and send it to Tokyo to relieve the warrior there of flatland-city defense stress.
I'd also like to throw out the following strategy: After Sailing, go for Code of Laws with all reasonable haste. (I'd recommend binary science so we have money for emergency warrior->axeman upgrading, plus the possibility of an Academy-enhanced research rate.)
At the same time, get cities founded on each of the two little islands near Kyoto. They'll more than pay for themselves while Kyoto is our capital.
If we concentrate on building Courthouses, I think we can keep the expenses somewhat reasonable, especially if we're able to work the Gem and Gold mines, at least until we have 6 Courthouses and 8 cities and can build our Forbidden Palace. It will depend on how the map reveals itself, of course, but I'd rather build the Forbidden Palace over on the Osaka continent than simply move the Capital.
Pretty soon, we need to send a scout up to Isabella's lands to plan our attack route. I think an Archer would be an okay troop to do this.
Also, I think the order of Spanish city names is:
Madrid (Capital)
Barcelona
Seville
Cordoba
Toledo (Ohio)
Santiago
Salamanca
(If Isabella founds more than that, we're not making par.)
Summary of my opinions:
Archer, then axes for Osaka.
Obelisk, Workboat, Axes for Tokyo
Settlers (2), Galley when possible, Worker (for Cows), Workboats in Kyoto; order TBD
Archer to scout Isabella's real estate leases.
Re-mine gold mine
Primary duty of guards in Osaka, Tokyo: Protect mines, protect road, live
Courthouses all around when possible.
regoarrarr
King
Yeah, I think I agree with not moving the palace. And so, if we're not going to do that, then we might as well found on the island.
There was absolutely no chance we weren't going to lose some warriors here and there. Magnet Man was fortified on the forested hill 2 south of Osaka at the start of the turnset and was attacked by a barb warrior on the first turn. I could've moved him back to the capitol on the first turn, but it would have only allowed the barbs to have two units to attack the capitol on the same turn and/or pillage instead of just the archer.
If we want to build 2 more cities near the capital, that means we need 3 more cities over on the new continent in order to open up the forbidden palace, for a total of 8. Assuming -9 gpt per city (which will be increased due to # of cities, and lessened considerably by courthouses) I still think this is a risky road. Our finances are going to be completely hosed no matter which way we cut it until we finally get the FP up, and that's a long way off. Meybe someone can put in some shadowgame work to determine the viability of this strategy before we commit to it.
Compromise
Emperor
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- 1,601
Snaproll said:
I completely agree. I'm surprised we hadn't lost more warriors earlier.
If I sounded too critical of your turns, I apologize. I was looking for ways to improve my play based on how your moves turned out.
On the issue of whether or not to found cities on the islands: I suspect we're not going to be keeping more than two of Isabella's cities. Cordoba--the one she just planted--may be too close to Osaka to keep. Similarly, Seville may have too much overlap with Tokyo.
That means there will be some time before we get our 8 cities. But, by keeping only quality cities (and by taking out Isabella quickly), it means we'll have time to build up a proper infrastructure with courthouses everywhere. We should easily be able to get courthouses in Kyoto, Osaka, Tokyo, Madrid, Cow-island, and maybe Barcelona.
Before we move our capital, if we ever do, the island cities will be net increases of commerce for our split empire.
There's also the possibility that Cow-island or Stone-island will set us free from the Kyoto archipelago. I looked at high-zoom at the oceans around the islands, and I don't think the border expansions will lead directly to other islands, but we might see other civ borders and be able to reduce our research costs by contacting them.
Note that only the cow city will be whippable before Optics. Stone island will have to start with a Lighthouse and grow from there.
I guess there are really two options:
1) Build more cities near capitol and use the commerce generated from them to float our economy while we accumulate the 8 cities (and courthouses) necessary to build the FP or:
2) Grab the fourth city soon and move the capitol to the mainland ASAP, and then, after we have accumulated 8 cities, maybe put the FP in our former capitol and THEN build the island cities?
My personal inclination is option b, simply because option a) will have 5 cities as a massive economy drain for a relatively long time (until we build FP) whereas option b) has 3 cities with a large drain for a relatively short amount of time (until we can build Palace) and 1 city with a large drain until FP (the original capitol). Make sense? Any other opinions? Both, I believe, are viable.
1) Build more cities near capitol and use the commerce generated from them to float our economy while we accumulate the 8 cities (and courthouses) necessary to build the FP or:
2) Grab the fourth city soon and move the capitol to the mainland ASAP, and then, after we have accumulated 8 cities, maybe put the FP in our former capitol and THEN build the island cities?
My personal inclination is option b, simply because option a) will have 5 cities as a massive economy drain for a relatively long time (until we build FP) whereas option b) has 3 cities with a large drain for a relatively short amount of time (until we can build Palace) and 1 city with a large drain until FP (the original capitol). Make sense? Any other opinions? Both, I believe, are viable.
Compromise
Emperor
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- 1,601
Snaproll said:
My inclination is option (1). It can be implemented as soon as we learn Sailing. .(Even before, as we can train a couple Settlers in Kyoto.) The Palace is more hammers than 4 axemen. I'd rather be showing Isabella our axes than our new palace.
We can even compromise and just build another city on Cow Island. It will be profitable (or not bad) to have even if we choose to move the Palace rather than building the FP. It also lets us decide when to build the Palace, since it will give us our requisite 4th city.
EL_OSO
Warlord
Compromise said:
I never thought of that move before. Thanks for the heads up.
This situation isn't a pleasant one and I'm kind of leaning towards settling the islands for income as an immediate stop gap rather than building the palace on the mainland. I'd much rather build axes than a palace as we only have 2 cities to work with currently to Izzy's 4 cities.
One thing to keep in mind is that we'll have this barbarian problem on the mainland to deal with during our war with Izzy which essentially puts us into a two-front war. Those kind of wars make me cringe but fortunately barbs are somewhat easier to deal with.
ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
I too am inclined to go with the FP on mainland option mainly because it is a waste of hammers is we move the palace only to build the FP in our current capital.
The team has spoken 
I immediately switch Kyoto to a settler, and we should look to whip him when we get a chance. The happiness penalty from the first whip should decay pretty soon, too, which will help.
I am also able to evaluate the binary research / axe upgrade plan. We have 175 gold in the bank, making 11gpt at 0%. We need to save at least 110 gold to upgrade a warrior. 100% research costs us 19gpt, so we need a total of 76 gold to grab sailing. Soooo... one more turn of zero% and then I'll dial up research to get us sailing in 4. You can also see that I've moved one of the warriors towards Tokyo to help with defense there.
The archer in the trees takes care of a couple barbs and the warriors in Tokyo also take care of a barb warrior over the next few turns. Things get more interesting, however, when no less than three archers show up near Osaka. Eeek. Time to upgrade that axeman. You'll notice I have exactly enough gold to do so and still get sailing next turn. The axe is upgraded, and I leave the slightly wounded archer on the forested hill to hopefully soak up one of the archers.
The next turn we grab sailing and I dial research back down to 0%, set to meditation (which is on the beeline to Code of Laws).
The archer does indeed soak up one barb archer, but is severely wounded so I move him to safety. I also move the worker (who has put a turn or two into re-mining the gold) away from the action.
The next (and final) turn is quite eventful. First, another archer attacks our new axeman, who successfully defends.
However, another warrior appears inbetween the two cities (and its TOTALLY my fault for not fortifying on the hill as was suggested. I was so paranoid about only having one defender in Osaka I just moved straight there.) I suggest moving the shock promoted warrior as shown - risky I know, but it's probably better than having copper disconnected.
And finally, we pop the Great Scientist. I suggest unassigning both scientists to the clam tiles to speed the settler construction, but I'll leave such decisions to the next player.
It's been fun. This is a difficult scenario, but I'm enjoying playing it with you all!
I immediately switch Kyoto to a settler, and we should look to whip him when we get a chance. The happiness penalty from the first whip should decay pretty soon, too, which will help.
I am also able to evaluate the binary research / axe upgrade plan. We have 175 gold in the bank, making 11gpt at 0%. We need to save at least 110 gold to upgrade a warrior. 100% research costs us 19gpt, so we need a total of 76 gold to grab sailing. Soooo... one more turn of zero% and then I'll dial up research to get us sailing in 4. You can also see that I've moved one of the warriors towards Tokyo to help with defense there.
The archer in the trees takes care of a couple barbs and the warriors in Tokyo also take care of a barb warrior over the next few turns. Things get more interesting, however, when no less than three archers show up near Osaka. Eeek. Time to upgrade that axeman. You'll notice I have exactly enough gold to do so and still get sailing next turn. The axe is upgraded, and I leave the slightly wounded archer on the forested hill to hopefully soak up one of the archers.
The next turn we grab sailing and I dial research back down to 0%, set to meditation (which is on the beeline to Code of Laws).
The archer does indeed soak up one barb archer, but is severely wounded so I move him to safety. I also move the worker (who has put a turn or two into re-mining the gold) away from the action.
The next (and final) turn is quite eventful. First, another archer attacks our new axeman, who successfully defends.
However, another warrior appears inbetween the two cities (and its TOTALLY my fault for not fortifying on the hill as was suggested. I was so paranoid about only having one defender in Osaka I just moved straight there.) I suggest moving the shock promoted warrior as shown - risky I know, but it's probably better than having copper disconnected.
And finally, we pop the Great Scientist. I suggest unassigning both scientists to the clam tiles to speed the settler construction, but I'll leave such decisions to the next player.
It's been fun. This is a difficult scenario, but I'm enjoying playing it with you all!
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