SGOTM 02 - The Real Ms. Beyond

[ruff_hi]

I am going to play until we build the settler - give us all a little more of a chance to think about where to settle. I must say that I am in favour of 1 NE of the copper.

Pre-flight, thinks look good so I change nothing. I wonder where that barb is heading. I move the forested warrior onto the hill to have a chance to attack the barb if he moves onto the mine. The barb moves right onto the Gems mind - warrior is 80% chance of winning (1 in 5 of dying) so I promote him to Combat II (now 90% - still 1 in 10). He attacks and wins but down to 50HPs - 4 turns to heal. A new barb 3 tiles to the W appears. Worker - for lack of anything better to do, starts a road. Two more barbs come from the Sth. I move our healthy warrior out onto the hill to try and attract their attention. Magnet Warrior does come under attack from both Barbs with only 1 hit suffered - fully healed after attack. The other barb moves onto the gold mine - 72% chance of success if we attack - he can pillage if he wants to because that is a 30% chance of losing a unit. He doesn't pillage - attacks Magnet and dies. More Barbs appear. I could chop the settler (4 turns to chop) but the settler will finish by then - I should have chopped earlier, instead of that road.

<break point>

We have a settler, we have also just finished hunting and have a bit of over-flow beakers into archery. We have 177 gold and are at +1 @ 60% / -1 @ 70%. If we dial it all the way to 100%, we get archery in 3 and still have enough gold to upgrade 1 warrior to an axe. If we get archery, does that mean so do the Barbs - I think the answer is YES. I have promoted two warriors with Woodsman I and picked out some nice hills for them to stand on - not sent yet.

 

[Zalson]

I vote with the off-copper site.

 

[Compromise]

Good breakpoint, ruff_hi.

(The citizens of Osaka are happy to be rid of Compromise the Whipper.)

Don't worry about giving the barbs Archery. I did a test game, and they'll have it before 1500BC no matter what we do. It'll be nice to have them for ourselves.

Looks like you found Isabella! That would explain why there were no barb attacks from north across the river...

Since we didn't rush the Settler, I'm on the fence about where to put the copper city. No strong opinion either way.

I do think we should research Archery (at 100%), then Sailing. At least we'll be able to whip an archer in Osaka should the need arise.

You can get a workboat in 15 turns (less if the copper mine stays active) if you settle off-copper. Then, that city will have no growth worries and can be whipped. A warrior for defense is slightly risky though.

Some micromanagement suggestions. If you go for the off-copper site, move the warrior there and fortify it now. That way it will have some fortification bonus already when the city is founded. Also, if you can, move the worker atop the plains hill east of Osaka so you don't end the Settler's turn next to a barb! We might want a warrior on that hill just to bust fog in the vicinity of the copper road.

 

[BeefontheBone]

I'm still against settling on the copper - like I said before we need every city to pull its weight in this game. I like that there's lots of discussion going on this time round though

 

[ruff_hi]

Some micromanagement suggestions. If you go for the off-copper site, move the warrior there and fortify it now. That way it will have some fortification bonus already when the city is founded. Also, if you can, move the worker atop the plains hill east of Osaka so you don't end the Settler's turn next to a barb! We might want a warrior on that hill just to bust fog in the vicinity of the copper road.

Don't worry - there is no way I am putting this settler on a tile next to fog! But I am not moving that worker either - he is roading!

 

[regoarrarr]

Well, it appears that although I am for it, the consensus is settling off the copper (1 NE). I also would have gone for Sailing rather than Hunting / Archery, but now that we're here - I think we should go for Archery @90/100, getting it in a few turns. Rather than building another warrior for the 3-4 turns till Archery, I think I'd put a few turns into a barracks.

How's Kyoto looking?

 

[ruff_hi]

How's Kyoto looking?

Ooops - good question. I *forgot* that we have another city. I will check in on it. Last I saw it was thinking, eating and that was about it.

 

[EL_OSO]

The off-copper site looks good to me as well.

 

[ruff_hi]

Next time, I don't care what people say ... I am researching archery from the get go. Defending cities with warriors is just too nerve wracking. City build off the copper, roaded and 5 turns until copper is on-line. Here is the hot spot ...

The warrior in blue has a promotion outstanding - his last from the barbs. I was thinking Woodsman II but was holding off until he needed some insta-healing. As you can see, we have our first barb archer (W) and we have 1 archer being build (due in 4 but can be whipped now). We also have two warriors. The warrior to the E is healing (3 I think) but is well promoted. We also lost our gold mine.

Our copper city ...

... is costing us another 9 per turn. The mine due to be finished in 5 and there is some barb action there. It might be a good idea to move the healing warrior over there.

And our capital ...

... is quietly accumulating GPPs (scientist) and putting hammers into Stonehenge.

 

[Compromise]

Next time, I don't care what people say ... I am researching archery from the get go.

Wiser words have not yet been written in this thread!

I recommend Medic for all or several warriors with promotions remaining; that way they are useful without being promoted.

I think the Copper mine building will be interrupted by that (and maybe future) barbs. Just maybe, our roads will remain intact. I hope the warrior in Tokyo has Shock.

Maybe after the warrior on the forested hill south of Osaka wins (!) against the barb near it, it can move to Osaka to buy us another turn (to rush the archer) if we lose to the archer.

Hang in there Snaproll, you're goal is to get Copper for us!

 

[ruff_hi]

Firstly, I made a mistake with the workboat in Tokyo - it should be swapped to an oblisk right off and completed while the oblisk does its culture thing.

Secondly, and don't shot me for this, but I really think we need to put a fog busting net out BEFORE we deal with Bella. All the barbs I saw came from the South so I would assume that Bella has dealt with the Barb threat in the North. The best unit to do this is a mounted unit with SENTRY promotion. I don't think we are getting any of those soon so I suggest we build AXEs to push the fog back and scouts to stand on hills and hold off the fog we have pushed back. This will also have the benefit of getting us some nicely promoted axes!

Finally, each city we add is going to cost us 9 gold per turn. If we don't work at least 1 gem / gold mine, we are negative gold @ 0%. We need to move the capital before we take any more cities. We could always raze her cities but that creates FOG (=barbs). The Palace (all 240Hs of it) require 4 cities to before you can build it. Guess we need another settler (or take one from Bella or the Barbs).

 

[regoarrarr]

Next time, I don't care what people say ... I am researching archery from the get go. Defending cities with warriors is just too nerve wracking. City build off the copper, roaded and 5 turns until copper is on-line. Here is the hot spot ...

Well, not to be a jerk....okay, partly to be a jerk I'd say that if we had built the city on the copper, then we'd already have copper, we'd have one axe (promoted) and another 2 on the way, and the barb threat would not be a threat.

Definitely agree that we need a palace over here STAT. Our poor economy means that early war is even better. It's the best place we're going to get the 4th city (Seville probably)

 

[Zalson]

I'm OOP this week until thursday. I expect to see Isabella on her knees, day and night, scoring points for the afterlife...

 

[Compromise]

Overall, good turns there ruff_hi. It's a gamble to go for the better long-term city, but if it pays off, we'll do well compared to our competition. (Ahem. At least those who didn't research Archery earlier. )

We've got a good chance to get that Copper up soon. Don't finish that mine before we know what the barb there will do! (It can't be pillaged before it's completed.)

A thought about cities: the fastest way to get to 4 cities is to build one near our water-isolated capital. It will slow our research for a while, but it can work 4 tiles (at 2 commerce each) at its happy-cap of 4 (is that the right number? Should be the same as the others.) Before we move the capital, if that's what we decide to do, that will be a positive commerce number, afterward, it won't be too negative. All we need is Sailing so we can make a galley to transport the Settler. Stone Island can also be made to be just as profitable with a Lighthouse. (It will be a while before we'll be able to take advantage of the Whales, of course.)

About fog-busting of the barbs: I think in the short term, we'll need our best troops in (archers) and near (axemen) our continental cities to protect our mined assets. The island looks to be so big that we won't be able to bust all the fog, so no matter what we do, we're unlikely to reduce the number of barbs out there. Let them spawn. Let them build cities. Let them come to us. I think they're substituting for Barracks for us while we build up an assault force for poor, unsuspecting (though Annoyed with us) Isabella.

Yes, get that Obelisk before the Workboat, though I don't think there's too much harm done. Maybe 3 or 4 turns of workboat waiting for the borders to expand?

We have Writing; can we check to see if Isabella will Open Borders with us? If so, though I doubt she will, a Woods II warrior would make a good scout of her territory. Also, how many cities does she have? We should get a screenshot of her diplomacy screen. And of the Demographics screen: how are we doing compared to her?

Is Snaproll taking the next turnset? If so, how many turns? It seems like we're in 10 turns/turnset territory.

We're almost over the raging barbs hump, team. (I hope!)

 

[Snaproll]

Yes, I'm taking the next turnset. Summary post before I start? Going to be an interesting 10...

 

[Compromise]

Since Kodii is off having fun (until tomorrow) and can't do his usual Summary postings, I've taken the liberty of plagiarizing his from back on page 11, and messing it up royally by inserting largely just my own opinions:

SUMMARY POST

regoarrarr
BeefontheBone
Kodii
Compromise (screwed us over badly)
ruff_hi
Snaproll (up)
Zalson (on deck)
EL_OSO

Diplomacy:
We've met Isabella. She must die, and from her corpse we will be provided with Buddhism and probably Judaism.

Technology:
We've got Mysticism, Mining, BW, Pottery, Writing, and Archery. Sailing is up next. What's next? Animal Husbandry and Masonry have been suggested.

Settling:
We need to decide when/whether to settle the islands near Kyoto. They will provide positive commerce until we move the capital, but may be slight drains if we move the capital to the continent.

Builds:
Tokyo is building an obelisk (or it should be) and then a workboat. Then, it will jump on the archer/axeman production bandwagon.

Religion:
We want one. Probably one of Isabella's.

Great People:
Run 2 scientists in Kyoto, except when building Settlers or anything for the colonization of the Kyoto archipelago. I assume our Great Scientist will be founding the Kyoto Academy, but that's open to discussion.

Civics:
We've switched to Slavery. Nothing new on the horizon.

Edit: And the most recent, relevant info: For the love of Sid, secure our Copper! Maybe two warriors sitting in Osaka to protect against the archer. Keep the worker out of danger. Move the worker back to the gold mine when Copper is secured. Upgrade one warrior (which one? I don't know) to an axeman and use as barb strike force. Get archers in each city to fortify there. Promote them along the City Garrison line.

We should decide whether or not to settle the islands near Kyoto.... I lean toward yes, since they'll be productive long before we can move the capital, and almost self-sustaining afterward. If we want to do it, we should be training a Settler soon, but that will delay our Great Scientist.

 

[Snaproll]

Alright, I'm taking a crack at the first few turns now. I'll see about the obelisk for sure and see what I can do about the barbs. I'll stop if anything goes askew and get feedback.

 

[Snaproll]

I guess the first big question is if we should whip the archer or not. It will only take 4 turns to build an archer but that isn't soon enough to defend against the incoming barb archer. We are at 2 pop though, and our warrior inside the city has combat 2 plus the 20% defensive bonus from the city, and I think will have a better than 50% shot at defeating an attacking archer.

Defending the copper mine from the incoming barb is easy enough, though:

 

[Kodii]

I'm back

Looks like not too much has happened, and things seems to be moving rather smoothly. Before I comment further, I'd better rest my brain and get some sleep

 

[Compromise]

Welcome back, Kodii; get that brain some rest.

@Snaproll: I'd probably keep the warrior in Tokyo. Do we still have 4 warriors on the island, and Is it possible to put two warriors in each city? I'd only whip the archer if our defending warrior loses to the barb archer. It will appear in the city before the barbs attack on the interturn after you whip it. (Is that clear? I had a long night.)