SGOTM 02 - The Real Ms. Beyond

[Kodii]

Great turns Snaproll! I believe Zalson is up next?

What should we do with out GS? There are four options. Save him for a GA, build an academy in Kyoto, lightbulb a tech or add as a superspecialist. I'm not quite sure what would be best in the long run.

For the settler, should we build that first, or the galley? I would analyze a bit more, but its getting late again, and I'm still tired from the drive on the Coquihalla

 

[Compromise]

Great work, Snaproll. I don't think that not having someone on the hill was possible, so no error there. It's a good spot for a sentry, but we just don't have any boots to spare for that duty right now.

These barbs really are raging. I think we should save money and upgrade our other warrior to an axeman.

I wouldn't move the warrior out of Tokyo. Rather, I'd try to draw the barb into attacking the archer or the axeman across the river (but only if they are healthy and free from more pressing duties. If the route to copper is cut (temporarily, I hope), we could build an archer in Osaka.

I agree that we should fire the scientists in Kyoto now. Get that/those settlers going. (Did we decide if we're going to found on stone isle or not?)

My original thought about Merit Ptah was an academy, but all this talk about moving the Palace has me wondering if that's such a great idea. Is there some clever use like lightbulbing Philosophy that we can conceivably use him for? I haven't seen the Demographics screen for a while, so am not sure how we're doing compared to the AIs.

In SGOTM1, I think Team Peanut used a Great Scientist or two on their way to a quick Astonomy. We might want to think about doing the same. Of course, this early on, an Academy might pay for itself nicely. I'm not sure.

Before I forget: I think we've been *really* lucky so far that no barb archers have threatened Tokyo. That's why I'm reluctant to un-fortify the warrior defender there.

Is that unhappy in Kyoto because of a whip penalty? Seems like the happy cap should be 5. I don't think we need to whip the Settlers with all that food there.

I haven't thought too much about it, but is there any reason to settle directly on the cow? Seems like a clear no, but I just want to check (overlap or something?)

Edit: Zalson's gonna give you crap about not posting the save in the proper place. And gosh darn it, you deserve it! (Just like I did )

 

[Snaproll]

Yep, the unhappiness is because of a whip penalty. It should wear off soon (although I'm too lazy to figure out when). Don't worry, I also posted the save in the proper place

 

[regoarrarr]

If we get Meditation, then our G. Scientists are going to start lightbulbing Philosophy, instead of Astronomy. Also, then we'll unlock the Paper/Education route too (ahead ofAstronomy). If we want the GS to do Astronomy (which I think I recommend), then we should NOT do Meditation. Instead, do Polytheism->Priesthood

 

[EL_OSO]

If we get Meditation, then our G. Scientists are going to start lightbulbing Philosophy, instead of Astronomy. Also, then we'll unlock the Paper/Education route too (ahead ofAstronomy). If we want the GS to do Astronomy (which I think I recommend), then we should NOT do Meditation. Instead, do Polytheism->Priesthood

That's a good recommendation, however, lets not get side tracked from the ablity to build courthouses to offset maintenance costs. Philosophy if I'm not mistaken is also a cherished tech by the AI and might prove valuable for trading if and when the time comes.

 

[Compromise]

I've been thinking about how our cities are going to run. I think the islands are easy:

1) Settle E of the cow. Build order: Granary, Lighthouse, Obelisk/Library/Courthouse. Settler, 2 fishing boats and a worker to be supplied by Kyoto (in that order?). Improve the cow. Whip as needed for big buildings

2) Settle on Stone Island. Build order: Lighthouse, Granary, Obelisk/Library/Courthouse. Settler supplied by Kyoto.

3) Osaka: Optimize for production while working all resource mines. With happy limit of 6, we want it working: 2 Gems mines, 1 Gold mine, 1 Grass hill mine (to be built), 1 river sheep (needs AH and a pasture), Alternate between oasis and Plains Hill Forest (Mined eventually, but now a good Sentry post.)

4) Tokyo: Optimize for production: Fish (with Lighthouse), 1 Desert Copper, 1 Plains Stone Quarry (need Masonry), 1 Plains Hill Mine (need to build mine), 2 Grass Forests (so don't chop those!)

That assumes a happy cap of 6 for the cities: 4 naturally, 1 each for Gems and Gold. We'll also need Rice, Sheep and Fish for Health. We'll get an extra health if we have a Granary from the Rice.

We need many worker techs: Animal Husbandry for Sheep and Island Cows (and maybe we'll find Horses!), Agriculture (for the Rice), Masonry (for the Stone Quarry).

 

[Compromise]

Also, I think there are a few team decisions/discussions to be made/had now or soon:

1) What is our tech priority?. Options: (I've listed them in order of my preference; i.e. I prefer (a) over (b) and (b) over (c). I've lowered my priority for Code of Laws because I think high production capacity is more important first.

(a) Worker techs so that Osaka/Tokyo can be maximally set for production.
(b) Code of Laws via Math/Currency
(c) Code of Laws via Polytheism/Priesthood. Lowest beakers to get CoL, but nothing useful on the way.

2) In the very short term, do we save money to upgrade the other warrior on the continent? I lean slightly toward upgrading him. But, if he can secure Tokyo until we get an axe or archer to protect Tokyo, then I'd use him to scout Isabella's lands as long as she'll let us.

3) What is our plan for the Kyoto Archipelago? I think there is only one real plan: Get the Cow island going, then settle Stone Island, then generate scientists in Kyoto and Cow-City. My recommendation for Kyoto Build order is: Galley, whipped when happy penalty is just 15 turns, Settler, Workboat (whipped), Workboat, Worker (if we have AH for the Cows), Settler (for Stone Island). Then back to Scientists. I've suggested a build order for the island cities in the previous post.

4) What is our plan for Isabella and the barbs? Options (I prefer (a)):

(a) Get the necessary Worker techs and infrastructure so that Osaka an Tokyo can pump out the troops. Simply defend our holdings until then.
(b) Ignore infrastructure and get 6 axes available to go conquer Isabella ASAP. (In which case, we've been wasting some time with the Obelisk/Workboat builds at Tokyo.)

5) What is our Mine&City Defense Plan for the Osaka/Tokyo industrial complex?. I suggest 1 archer fortified in each city plus 1 or 2 axes able to respond to threats to the road and the Mines

6) Are we doing the right thing by Improving Tokyo? We could be pumping out an axe or archer there ASAP....

Edit: I guess #7 is covered above. So if you don't feel like offering an opinion on the preceding 6 points, just voice one for #7.

7) Immediate decision needed! I suggest Animal Husbandry as our next tech, researching at 0% research so we have the option of upgrading our warrior to an axeman if necessary. This will reveal Horses and make pastures available for the Sheep and Cows.

 

[Kodii]

1) Animal Husbandry first. I'm not sure what everybody thinks about how soon we need courthouses. With that discussion we can decide whether we need the other worker techs before we go towards CoL. We also need to discuss which path to CoL to take.

2) I think we should upgrade the warrior.

3) What Compromise wrote looks great to me.

4) I also prefer option a. We're in no rush to kill Isabella. However, we need to ensure she can't expand much more.

5) Whatever it takes to keep our two cities and resources safe.

6) I'm good with improving Tokyo before having it pump out axes.

7) Um.. I guess the answer to this is everything above

Osaka/Tokyo Industrial Complex... that reminds me of Shanghai.

 

[Compromise]

In further confirmation that I am a buffoon, I almost got myself kicked off the team last night. I've been accessing this thread by going to the SGOTM forum and clicking on our thread.

Of course, in a late-night browse for new posts, I accidentally clicked on some other team's thread. (Idiot.) I immediately realized I'd misclicked and closed the browser window before anything from the page loaded, but the deed had been done.

I reloaded the browser and shot AlanH a full confession, and it looks like things are okay for me to continue to play.

However, if you start noticing things like: I know exactly what other team's strategy's are and names/locations of civs whom we haven't met yet seem obvious to me, then you probably should get suspicious.

From now on, I'll be doing what I'm sure the rest of you smart players are doing already and accessing the thread from the User CP page.

Now, to divert attention from my carelessness, I pose the following question:

Where's Zalson?

 

[ruff_hi]

Roster
regoarrarr
BeefontheBone
Kodii
Compromise (so - what did you find out - don't answer that!)
ruff_hi
Snaproll - posted save at 11:40 Aug 22
Zalson - up but has only 13 minutes left to post a got it!
EL_OSO - on deck (but prob up)

From a post on the 20th ...

I'm OOP this week until thursday. I expect to see Isabella on her knees, day and night, scoring points for the afterlife...

 

[Compromise]

Compromise (so - what did you find out - don't answer that!)

As a part of my self-imposed public service penance, I feel compelled to share that my new favorite link is:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/subscription.php?do=viewsubscription&folderid=all

On topic, since it's been a while into Thursday, Zalson's return day, with no word, my feeling is that the first of Zalson or EL_OSO to post a "Got it" message gets the next 10 turns, and the other gets the next set.

But that's just my--so often flawed--opinion.

 

[EL_OSO]

As a part of my self-imposed public service penance, I feel compelled to share that my new favorite link is:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/subscription.php?do=viewsubscription&folderid=all

On topic, since it's been a while into Thursday, Zalson's return day, with no word, my feeling is that the first of Zalson or EL_OSO to post a "Got it" message gets the next 10 turns, and the other gets the next set.

But that's just my--so often flawed--opinion.

I think Zalson is on the west coast so it is still early in the day. I'm not in any rush to cut in line since we need to discuss Compromise's options before proceeding IMO. If he doesn't grab the save by this time tomorrow night I will swap with him if that's cool with the rest of the team.

Now for my 2 cents on Compromise's suggestions:

1. I agree with Animal Husbandry for the next tech to research. After that we should keep our options open. Mathematics and Currency is a good option to research in lieu of Priesthood and Polytheism for Code of Laws as we'll be able to get a marketplace or two up and running to offset the maintenance costs.

2. I agree with waiting to upgrade the warrior as well. We may need that gold to offset maintenance costs.

3. Sounds good to me.

4. I like option A as we can't support too many cities right now.

5. Good combo on defense of our infrastructure. We'll need more Axemen for the war with Spain.

6. I'm ok with Tokyo as it is.

7. I think these are covered in my answers above.

Cheers,

Oso

 

[Compromise]

I've edited the original post to note that, as others have pointed out, question #7 is redundant. My mistake.

 

[regoarrarr]

I guess I must be alone, but what I'd like to do is build up axes, and take out Isabella ASAP.

So, what are our medium to long term goals? And once we identify those, what are the actions that we can achieve them.

I think medium term we need to hamstring Isabella, and get our economy back on track.

Another big question is what do we do with our great scientist? I think we save him for Astronomy. I think we might be able to win this game with maces and galleons, depending on how things look.

If that's the case, we do NOT want to research Meditation, since we want to avoid Philosophy. We also want to avoid the Paper route until we get Astronomy as well, since that will also be prioritized over Astronomy by a G. scientist.

 

[ruff_hi]

I, also would like to remove Isabella ... so axes would be nice. I think that we can also satisfy the '# of cities' requirement for the FP.

I would use the scientist some other way. I think we will generate another GP Scientist by the time that we can lightbulb astronomy.

 

[Zalson]

EDIT: Just read Mr. Compromise's post... silly me.

I'm OOP this week until thursday. I expect to see Isabella on her knees, day and night, scoring points for the afterlife...

Did I say that? I expected to be swapped with OSO... oh well. If OSO wants to take it tonight, I have no qualms. If not, I'll play tomorrow.

 

[Kodii]

Welcome back Zalson

I don't think anyone would mind if we had you play first, then Oso after. Whoever says "got it" first, I guess

 

[Zalson]

OK. Got it, playing tomorrow.

 

[Zalson]

My goals, at least for this set (relax, I'm not playing yet):

Build a few axes in Tokyo.

Get a settler for cow island.

Find a use for Merit Ptah (sic).

I'm thinking, and could be wrong about this, but couldn't we use him to get math, and move us on our way to COL. I want to make that and currency a high priority. I know this is intended to be a conquest/fast finish game, but I hate having massive deficits hanging over my head (please note that the previous statement was NOT intended as a political commentary )

I also think that for him to build an academy in Kyoto would most definitely help us in the long run. Think about it. We're not moving the capital for a while; we're running two scientists. That's adding... 3 bpt. On second thought, especially since we're trying a binary science rate, that might not be the best idea? Can someone with more know-how and lack of Civ-apathy (SGs are the only games I can stand right now) let me know what the benefits are? Thanks.

 

[Compromise]

Lightbulbing Mathematics?! That's just so crazy it might be brilliant! It's certainly worth thinking about.

The primary thing that is limiting our ability to expand is the cost of our new continental cities. To give us a running start at Currency and then Code of Laws could be very helpful. Mathematics is 375B, right? Looking back at our posts, we're making something like 5B/T at 100% research, so that's some 75 turns! (Yes, I'm aware that that number is probably wrong and misleading.)

It would also make chopping axes more efficient, though we only have one worker right now.

At that point, I would have to reconsider whether AH is the appropriate next tech. We could be going for Currency. I suspect we'll get some more cash from razing Seville and Cordoba, then Madrid and Barcelona (wherever they are) could give us enough cash to efficiently rush marketplaces and/or courthouses in those cities which will presumably be of decent size and somewhat improved, maybe even holy, and thus worth keeping.