Kodii
Ka ICE
Don't worry about it 
I'll take the next turnset. Do we want to use both our Scientists NOW?
I'll take the next turnset. Do we want to use both our Scientists NOW?
SGOTM 02 - The Real Ms. Beyond
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Compromise
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I vote yes on burning both scientists. I think we have to get to tech parity asap. Philosophy can get us a few techs, but not much. Then, I think we can use astronomy, maybe over a couple of turns, to get a lot of what we're missing. I concentrated a lot of my turnset on getting workers and settlers in place on our continent. That way, when the AIs get their galleys, we'll have all (or at least the best of) the city spots taken. Great dotmap, btw.
We'll make some enemies by going all out on the tech trades, but I think it's a risk we need to take to catch up in tech.
We'll make some enemies by going all out on the tech trades, but I think it's a risk we need to take to catch up in tech.
Kodii
Ka ICE
Actually on second thought, I might request a skip this turnset. I am a bit nervous about being the one responsible for bringing us back up to tech. I do not feel that my trading skills are good enough to inch every tech and gold from the AI. Does someone else want to take that responsibility from me?
Compromise
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Gulp. I just looked at the save again. I have the exploring workboats and galley on auto-route back to our little island cluster. One of them is right next to a galley of Mansa's. So, I checked the tech again: Mansa, Huayna *and* Mao all have astronomy already.
I'm kind of at a loss about how to proceed. Maybe we should make an academy with one? The tech will only get cheaper as more civs research it.
It may still be worth it for trade bait, though. It is a pretty expensive tech.
Prioritize the colonization of our island, though!
I'm kind of at a loss about how to proceed. Maybe we should make an academy with one? The tech will only get cheaper as more civs research it.
It may still be worth it for trade bait, though. It is a pretty expensive tech.
Prioritize the colonization of our island, though!
Kodii
Ka ICE
Yup, it looks like we're in quite the pickle. Mansa's galleon is probably headed to our continent too. I almost want to beeline to the Internet 
(Which would surely leave us with the Wooden Spoon). I can't really think of any ideas right now.
(Which would surely leave us with the Wooden Spoon). I can't really think of any ideas right now.Compromise
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Kodii, why don't you grab the save. Mansa is the furthest out front, so he's the one we least want to get negative modifiers for. His worst enemy is Mao who already has astronomy, so at least we won't get on his bad side by trading it. I would say try to grab techs that give us valuable infrastructure and get us closer to cavalry/cannons and a dominating navy.
I might get another chance to look at the tech situation tonight, but I'm not sure I'd do much better than anyone else.
Anyone else have any opinions?
I might get another chance to look at the tech situation tonight, but I'm not sure I'd do much better than anyone else.
Anyone else have any opinions?
Kodii
Ka ICE
Sure, I'll see what I can do then. I'll report later tonight.
EL_OSO
Warlord
Are we trading with Mao? If so, we should consider killing the deals.
Compromise
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EL_OSO said:
We could wait until someone asks us to do that, then get a +1 modifier with the more powerful civ....
Edit: I'm suggesting that as an option, not as a strong preference either way.
Compromise
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I finally got around to fulfilling my duty as team scribe. I've posted our summary in the first spoiler post here. (If you haven't read the reports, you should see what happened to team Fubar!)
As for the game now, Kodii, do you want to take it? Remember that after you pop astronomy using great scientist, it will take a turn before you can trade it. Maybe there's a way to get someone to attack Mansa? He's about 40% higher in score than anyone else (not least from his liberalism bonus). It would be nice for him to have enemies. He's also the least likely to have us hate him if we bring a war ally in against him.
Other than that, I guess try not to trade with Kublai or Mao since those are Hatty and Mansa's worst enemies.
With any luck, we could get one of the weaker civs to war with Mansa, let them tie him up, have Mansa start winning and taking cities, then declare war on the bribee ourselves (after suitable buildup) to get the mutual struggle bonus with Mansa!
As for the game now, Kodii, do you want to take it? Remember that after you pop astronomy using great scientist, it will take a turn before you can trade it. Maybe there's a way to get someone to attack Mansa? He's about 40% higher in score than anyone else (not least from his liberalism bonus). It would be nice for him to have enemies. He's also the least likely to have us hate him if we bring a war ally in against him.
Other than that, I guess try not to trade with Kublai or Mao since those are Hatty and Mansa's worst enemies.
With any luck, we could get one of the weaker civs to war with Mansa, let them tie him up, have Mansa start winning and taking cities, then declare war on the bribee ourselves (after suitable buildup) to get the mutual struggle bonus with Mansa!
Kodii
Ka ICE
Yea, I have the save, but I've been busy. I'll try to get it done tonight.
EL_OSO
Warlord
Nice job on the write up Compromise. 
Team Fubar did have a bad break but I think they all learned from that gamble.
Team Fubar did have a bad break but I think they all learned from that gamble.
Kodii
Ka ICE
I apologize for the long delay. I have been experimenting with non-fullscreen, which has led me to shut down Civ4 several times during my turnset. I feel guilty to leave another day without posting a report, so I decided to post what I have done so far.
IHT - I burn both scientists on Astronomy. I then trade Philosophy to whoever doesn't have it. Whether it was a good choice to trade it now, or wait until next turn to trade with Astronomy, I don't know. First, I trade Philosophy to Hatty for Horseback Riding (cavalry), Drama (prereq for music), Polytheism (just because) and 160 gold. I then trade Philo to Bismarck for Civil Service and 250 gold.
T1 1358 AD Our capital is now connected to the mainland. The borders of Nagoya expand. I then trade Astronomy, Drama and 300 gold to Bismarck for Music, Engineering and Feudalism, as he has less techs than all the other AIs.
T2 1364 AD - I trade Astronomy to Hatty for Paper, Guilds and 70 Gold. The current tech situation is this: Everybody else has Monotheism and Literature. Now, only Kublai does not have Astronomy, but Literature and Monotheism aren't worth the value of Astronomy. Bismarck, Mao and Huayna all feel that we are becoming too advanced. Huayna, Mao and Mansa all have Banking, Huayna and Mansa both have Gunpower, and Mansa has Education, Nationalism (and Liberalism). I also now notice that I have some sort of bug that is screwing up my minimap. The map shifts up, but the location of the cities remain the same, so it looks like we have founded cities on water.
T3 1370 AD - Nothing much
T4 1376 AD - Nagasaki is founded in the south. MAYDAY... here comes Huayna's ship with a settler. I take a quick look, and I notice that our continent is VERY close to Huayna. We might want to consider him as our first target, especially as he is about to found cities on OUR continent.
T5 1382 AD - We are now second in score, after passing Hatty.
T6 1388 AD - Bismarck demands Guilds from us. I decline, but then realize Bismarck doesn't have Guilds. Unfortunately, he still doesn't want to trade with us. However, Kublai doesn't have Paper. I trade it to him for Literature, Monotheism and gold. Aah! Mansa is sending settlers too.
T7 1394 AD - Mao complete Versailles. He asks to trade wine for sugar, but I don't think it is wise to, so I decline. Huayna founds Vilcabamba three tiles south and one tile east of Izumo, so that the borders touch. If we work hard, we may be able to flip the city.
T8 1400 AD - Mansa founds Tadmekka near Tokyo by the wheat.
T9 1406 AD - More of nothing.
T10 1412 AD - Yup. We have another settler. The next person can choose whether to found it to the south to put pressure on Vilcabamba, or in the useless desert to the east that I predict will have aluminum and oil. Either that, or keep the settler for later. I'll put up the save as soon as I can. I think I get the award of passing the most AIs in score, and adding the most points to our score (nearly 400!)
EDIT: Okay, heres the save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm2/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG002_AD1412_01.Civ4SavedGame
IHT - I burn both scientists on Astronomy. I then trade Philosophy to whoever doesn't have it. Whether it was a good choice to trade it now, or wait until next turn to trade with Astronomy, I don't know. First, I trade Philosophy to Hatty for Horseback Riding (cavalry), Drama (prereq for music), Polytheism (just because) and 160 gold. I then trade Philo to Bismarck for Civil Service and 250 gold.
T1 1358 AD Our capital is now connected to the mainland. The borders of Nagoya expand. I then trade Astronomy, Drama and 300 gold to Bismarck for Music, Engineering and Feudalism, as he has less techs than all the other AIs.
T2 1364 AD - I trade Astronomy to Hatty for Paper, Guilds and 70 Gold. The current tech situation is this: Everybody else has Monotheism and Literature. Now, only Kublai does not have Astronomy, but Literature and Monotheism aren't worth the value of Astronomy. Bismarck, Mao and Huayna all feel that we are becoming too advanced. Huayna, Mao and Mansa all have Banking, Huayna and Mansa both have Gunpower, and Mansa has Education, Nationalism (and Liberalism). I also now notice that I have some sort of bug that is screwing up my minimap. The map shifts up, but the location of the cities remain the same, so it looks like we have founded cities on water.
T3 1370 AD - Nothing much
T4 1376 AD - Nagasaki is founded in the south. MAYDAY... here comes Huayna's ship with a settler. I take a quick look, and I notice that our continent is VERY close to Huayna. We might want to consider him as our first target, especially as he is about to found cities on OUR continent.
T5 1382 AD - We are now second in score, after passing Hatty.
T6 1388 AD - Bismarck demands Guilds from us. I decline, but then realize Bismarck doesn't have Guilds. Unfortunately, he still doesn't want to trade with us. However, Kublai doesn't have Paper. I trade it to him for Literature, Monotheism and gold. Aah! Mansa is sending settlers too.
T7 1394 AD - Mao complete Versailles. He asks to trade wine for sugar, but I don't think it is wise to, so I decline. Huayna founds Vilcabamba three tiles south and one tile east of Izumo, so that the borders touch. If we work hard, we may be able to flip the city.
T8 1400 AD - Mansa founds Tadmekka near Tokyo by the wheat.
T9 1406 AD - More of nothing.
T10 1412 AD - Yup. We have another settler. The next person can choose whether to found it to the south to put pressure on Vilcabamba, or in the useless desert to the east that I predict will have aluminum and oil. Either that, or keep the settler for later. I'll put up the save as soon as I can. I think I get the award of passing the most AIs in score, and adding the most points to our score (nearly 400!)
EDIT: Okay, heres the save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm2/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG002_AD1412_01.Civ4SavedGame
Spoiler :
EL_OSO
Warlord
Looks good so far. I'm looking forward for the rest of your report.
Compromise
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I'm pretty sure I just saw Kodii run past my house yelling "The Malinese are coming! The Malinese are coming! Flee! Flee! Ahhhhhhhh!!!"
But I guess it could have been someone else.
But I guess it could have been someone else.
Kodii
Ka ICE
Yes, I'm pretty sure that was me.
I think Snaproll is up, ruff asked for a skip.
I think Snaproll is up, ruff asked for a skip.
Compromise
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I feel pretty silly. My last post was to chide Kodii into finishing, but he'd finished two days earlier. I guess the forum doesn't mark the thread as "unread" if someone makes a substantial edit to a previous post.
Okay, so Snaproll? Or ruff_hi even, if he no longer needs a skip. First available, I suppose.
Good job in boosting our score, Kodii. It will be a few days before I'm able to take a good hard look at the game. I suspect we're still in infrastructure/spread mode, but soon to move on to conquering.
Okay, so Snaproll? Or ruff_hi even, if he no longer needs a skip. First available, I suppose.
Good job in boosting our score, Kodii. It will be a few days before I'm able to take a good hard look at the game. I suspect we're still in infrastructure/spread mode, but soon to move on to conquering.
ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
Roster
regoarrarr
BeefontheBone
Kodii
Compromise
ruff_hi
Snaproll
Zalson
EL_OSO
This seems to be the latest roster but ... who is up? Compromise, snaproll or me? Also, do we want to revive one of our summary posts?
regoarrarr
BeefontheBone
Kodii
Compromise
ruff_hi
Snaproll
Zalson
EL_OSO
This seems to be the latest roster but ... who is up? Compromise, snaproll or me? Also, do we want to revive one of our summary posts?
EL_OSO
Warlord
ruff_hi said:
I think Zalson is no longer with us.
Compromise
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I basically swapped with Kodii, so either Snaproll or ruff would be up if they want.
And yes to a summary post if someone can whip one up!
And yes to a summary post if someone can whip one up!
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