SGOTM 02 - The Real Ms. Beyond

[regoarrarr]

Heh - sorry. I will probably get to this tomorrow night

 

[Kodii]

Sorry guys, I haven't been paying too much attention. I've spent my entire finishing Epic 8 in nearly one sitting

SUMMARY POST:

regoarrarr (up)
BeefontheBone (on deck)
Kodii
Compromise
ruff_hi
Snaproll
Zalson
EL_OSO

Diplomacy:
Isabella will die. When? The consensus seems to be rather soon.

Technology:
We want to get to CoL via Currency and Mathematics.

Settling:
None. (?) Isabella is doing the settling for us.

Builds:
What is Kyoto doing? I've lost track.
Osaka wants to keep with the axemen production
Tokyo will begin axemen production

Religion:
If we don't get Confucianism with CoL, We'll take Izzy's religion.

Great People:
I believe we are continuing to run scientists in Kyoto for another Great Scientist?

Civics:
n/a at the moment.

 

[EL_OSO]

Builds:
What is Kyoto doing? I've lost track.
Osaka wants to keep with the axemen production
Tokyo will begin axemen production

Kyoto just finished the settler and a galley.

I would recommend getting a rax in either osaka or tokyo. We're aggressive which means their cheap.

 

[Compromise]

I would recommend getting a rax in either osaka or tokyo. We're aggressive which means their cheap.

I think that's probably a good idea. I originally thought we could use the barbs for promotions, but doing so and then healing might delay our invasion of Spain.

 

[regoarrarr]

All right folks. Back in the saddle. First of all, and most importantly,

Capt'n Regoarrarr's Up Arr! (Say that three times fast)

Regoarrarr is pronounced "keek". So it's actually not that hard to say any number of time's fast

Currency is in 11 turns@100%. That is -20 gpt, where we have 25 gold in the bank. We do have one warrior that could be upgraded if we spent the money. Currency probably in 15-20 turns or so

Goals are - build military, settle the cow island, and not get killed

850 BC (0): Hit enter, the galley completes. I load up the settler. I'm strongly tempted to settle on the cows. I start a workboat in Kyoto to go to the Clams.

835 (1): Nothing

820 (2): The Oracle is built IADL.

805 (3): Our new axe whups a barb warrior without a scratch. Confucianism founded. Probably from the Oracle. Edo founded next to the cows, starts on an obelisk. I check at the possibility of open borders with Izzy. No go, we're her worst enemy! Whip a barracks for 1 pop in Osaka.

790 (4): Barb killing

775 (5): Yup

760 (6): Move our axe back on the gold mine. A barb warrior is on the forested plains hill south of Osaka but not a big deal.

745 (7): Not much. The aforementioned barb moves onto open land and I whack him.

730 (8): Yup

715 (9): Yup.

700 (10): Whack another barb. Our southern outpost barb already has 10 xp, so he should be rotated north to let some other axes get some XP.

I have an obelisk set in Edo - I was hoping when the borders expand it would let us island hop. I'd whip the workboat in Kyoto in 5 turns (when the current whip anger subsides). I would not whip again in Osaka. It now has a barracks, and can produce axes decently. Our worker is chopping a forest - it could build some cottages (especially on the flood plain 2W of Osaka). I think I'd consider declaring on Izzy in 5 turns - we'd have 5 axes. That might be enough to take Seville and Cordoba and raze Toledo

I'd also switch the production to the gold mine instead of the unimproved sheep. I forgot to do that before I saved. I think we should work the 2 gems and the gold. Actually if we work maximize food - we can grow in 2 turns, to get us up to size 4, and then move to maximize commerce.

 

[Compromise]

I have an obelisk set in Edo - I was hoping when the borders expand it would let us island hop. I'd whip the workboat in Kyoto in 5 turns (when the current whip anger subsides). I would not whip again in Osaka. It now has a barracks, and can produce axes decently. Our worker is chopping a forest - it could build some cottages (especially on the flood plain 2W of Osaka). I think I'd consider declaring on Izzy in 5 turns - we'd have 5 axes. That might be enough to take Seville and Cordoba and raze Toledo

I'd also switch the production to the gold mine instead of the unimproved sheep. I forgot to do that before I saved. I think we should work the 2 gems and the gold. Actually if we work maximize food - we can grow in 2 turns, to get us up to size 4, and then move to maximize commerce.

Quick thoughts: looks like good turns. Isn't an oasis better than the unimproved sheep? I'm kind of thinking we should maximize production (at least in Osaka) for a while.

What does everyone think about the quick attack on Isabella. I'm assuming we'd raze every city we can currently see, is that right? And we'll be attacking one city at a time with a 5-axe stack? Which one first?

 

[EL_OSO]

I would raze them. All of them will either overlap too much or are on pretty crappy land to begin with.

I don't know if I like the strategy of having a 5-axe kill stack running from each city as that is a lot of distance to cover. 3 axes/city should guarentee victory in most cases. We might even get lucky with just two versus the 2 archer defenders especially if they're unpromoted or the cultural defense is low.

I still think we can afford to ignore Toledo until last. With 3 axes per side moving up the continent, it should provide enough shock value while we gather more reinforcements for the real juicy targets further to the north.

 

[BeefontheBone]

Got it. If anyone has anything to add before I play (probably tomorrow), let them speak now or forever hold their piece (as punishment - 's embarassing in public. Especially at funerals).

 

[regoarrarr]

I do have a few things to say.

#1 - from what I'm seeing, we want to keep the capital in Kyoto. If so, how and when do we expect to see 6 cities with courthouses so we can build the forbidden palace? Especially if we're razing cities here. Maybe we need to wait to start the war till we get CoL so we can whip courthouses in the captured cities? But that's going to take forever...

Maybe we need to move the palace. Of course, if that's the case, we probably shouldn't have settled cow island....

We should whip the workboat in Kyoto in 5 turns once the whip anger comes out. Whip the obelisk and then a granary in Edo when we can. Possibly declare on Izzy in 5 turns once our axe in Tokyo is done?

What's our next scientist going to do? What's the next thing it will lightbulb?

ETA: I think, if I read the list on page 3 correctly, it will research Alphabet.

 

[EL_OSO]

I do have a few things to say.

#1 - from what I'm seeing, we want to keep the capital in Kyoto. If so, how and when do we expect to see 6 cities with courthouses so we can build the forbidden palace? Especially if we're razing cities here. Maybe we need to wait to start the war till we get CoL so we can whip courthouses in the captured cities? But that's going to take forever...

Maybe we need to move the palace. Of course, if that's the case, we probably shouldn't have settled cow island....

We should whip the workboat in Kyoto in 5 turns once the whip anger comes out. Whip the obelisk and then a granary in Edo when we can. Possibly declare on Izzy in 5 turns once our axe in Tokyo is done?

What's our next scientist going to do? What's the next thing it will lightbulb?

ETA: I think, if I read the list on page 3 correctly, it will research Alphabet.

Well the big question is...

Is the Forbidden Palace more important with having 3 crap cities that will be a burden in the long run.

I downloaded the save and loaded it up to take this screendump:

The only one that has a visible, viable resource is Toledo which is wheat. I would much rather build our own settler later on and settle one square south of the wheat so we don't starve off Tokyo. Seville is also stealing 3 squares from Tokyo. If we were to keep any of them I would vote that Cordoba is the best as that will have the least amount of impact since Osaka has more than enough decent squares to work. I might be swayed otherwise if I had more information regarding what is north of Seville.

IMO, adding more cities (that won't an awesome asset) to our empire this far from our capital at this stage of the game will be a bad idea. I'm assuming that we're not going to have courthouses for another 40 turns or so (including research and time to build them).

We should probably take the warrior in Tokyo and scout northwards while we still can and see if Seville is worth keeping.

Either way its not going to be easy waiting for courthouses or taking the cities. We're only at +10 gpt at 0% research. We only have one worker which means improving those cities will take a while as well. The maintenance will kill our economy really fast.

Izzy's two cities to the north are where the real prize awaits. The way I figure it, that will give us 8 cities. (3 around Kyoto + Osaka + Tokyo + 2 of Izzy's).

Isn't that the magic number for the Forbidden Palace?

~just my two cents.

Oso

 

[Kodii]

Raze Seville and Toledo for sure. Not sure about Cordoba. Edo has already been settled, hasn't it? So we're half way to Forbidden Palace.

 

[BeefontheBone]

Righty ho, I'm off. My mission? Build axes, scout Izzy's lands, don't get splatted. Might start a worker, too - 1 is not enough!

IHT - 700 BC:

Send the warrior out of Tokyo to scout Izzie's lands. I'd like to know more about the south of the land too, really. Must remember to whip Kyoto in 5 turns when the penalty decays. Do we want another settler for the stone island or a library, I ask myself.

My eagle eyes spot this SE of Kyoto:

Land ahoy! We'll need caravels or another border pop before we can get there, though. We're about halfway to the next one at 6cpt - might take a while.

On closer inspection once I opened the file in PS I realised that those are in fact someone's cultural borders, unless I'm very much mistaken. Hmmmm.

T3 - 655BC:

Axes finished in both cities thanks to a chop at Tokyo. Start another one there and a barracks in Osaka - it's quicker than an axe and worth it for the extra promotion methinks. Worker starts a grassland cottage - I decide it's not worth trying to put one on the floodplains since it's likely to get pillaged.

T6 - 610 BC:

Lots of archers splatted with cover-promoted axes. I've been attacking them for the extra experience given that the odds are so far in our favour even without terrain bonuses. Looks like we'll be ready to declare on 'Bella after my turnset - just don't neglect a few units on barb-blocking duty! WB whipped in Kyoto (I waited an extra turn for it to grow).

T7 - 595 BC:

Start Lighthouse in Kyoto. Can easily change after some discussion if we like.
I spot a Archer/Archer/Settler stack belonging to Bella heading through the gap in our cultural borders, and am sorely tempted to attack it in order to get a worker out of it (I'll also be able to grab at least one from her lands farther North). I decide to pause and open up some discussion - we're a little shorthanded for a war with 6 axes (1 or 2 of which ought to stay on barb duty methinks) but at a huge advantage against her archers and warriors, and the opportunity is there for the taking.

Screeny what our warrior spotted in the north - Madrid is farther away than I was expecting, and I can't get any closer without attacking her. There's a lot of jungle up there by the looks of it.

 

[Kodii]

As long as we're ready for a war, then I say, go ahead and take that settler. We're going to have to attack the city it will found at some point, so we may as well do it now. If not, I guess it'll be me who declares war on Izzy. Personally, I'm not very confident in being the first to wage the war

EDIT: As for those borders, they have a pinkish-white tinge. My guess would be England?

 

[ruff_hi]

I would take that settler (soon to be our worker) but I would wait a few rounds to do it. Suggest trailing her and attack her when she gets to a position that she will likely settle (or until you get bored if she walks too far). This will get us a few more rounds closer to extra axes.

Honestly - re your circles on the ocean fog - I cannot see anything there. Zoom out and click on culture will show borders much better than eye-balling will.

 

[Kodii]

I took the liberty of doing it myself. Germany?

 

[EL_OSO]

I would also trail the settler for a bit before attacking unless you feel confident about our current position.

 

[Compromise]

Take the Work...er, Settler! Only question is routing through her cities.... I'm thinking Cordoba->Barcelona (presumably a north shot from Osaka). Then, come back for Seville and Toledo

We won't get another border pop in Kyoto. Your cultural border can only extend out 2 squares over water.

 

[regoarrarr]

Might it be possible that Germany's borders will pop again, giving us access with Open Borders?

 

[Compromise]

Might it be possible that Germany's borders will pop again, giving us access with Open Borders?

Probably not. I that even the (presumably) German borders were to expand again, they would fill in to the north of the north square, to the west of the west square and diagonally in between those two. We still wouldn't be able to connect our borders. But we would get a discount on research--at least the techs they know--because we'd be know them and be able to establish some kind of diplomacy.

 

[BeefontheBone]

Sorry for the delay - forgot all about this yesterday and got distracted by Oblivion today - how awesome is A Brush With Death?

T8 - 580 BC:

I decide that 2 free workers is too big a temptation to pass up, and attack Izzy, whose settler/2 archers moved into the open between 2 of our cover-promoted axemen between turns. They don't stand a chance, and are cut down quickly. I also snag another worker near Seville.

T9 - 565BC:

Izzy reckons she can pillage our copper, but the road means our axes can catch her next turn.

Whip the obelisk in Edo.

T10 - 550 BC:

Izzy cleverly pillages the road instead, before getting clobbered. There's a worker in place to rebuild it though.
She's got a Chariot in Seville, which suggests it might be an idea to train a couple of spearmen, and there's a barbarian axeman southeast of Osaka demanding money with menaces - a couple of archers on hill tiles (preferably with forests too) will be useful when we get chance.
To the west of Osaka is a barbarian warrior - the Axeman I just whipped there should deal with him. I also whipped a barracks in Tokyo to speed us up a bit - the overflow should probably go into a spearman. I also turned the science slider up to 90 - we'll get Currency in 4 turns at -23gpt (150-odd in the bank).

@Ruff: Good point, I didn't even think of that. Don't recall ever having used that function.

I reckon we're fairly well set here - so long as we don't neglect barb defence we should be able to get up to the 8 cities and 6 courthouses needed for the FP and steal Izzy's religion (since someone got CoL in the last turnset IIRC) pretty sharpish.

I suspect that those German (?) borders have already expanded or someone with a brighter monitor than my TFT one would've spotted them earlier, and you know you can't trust the AI to settle on the coast as often as it should (Cordoba's a prime example...)

Oh, and there's a wounded warrior with 9 experience northwest of Seville (he took out a scout and took an unusually-heavy beating) - if you can get him back to Japan he'll be worth upgrading.

Hasty edit: I've got a maths degree, and I manage to make 565 - 15 equal 640. Go figure.

SAVE