SGOTM 02 - VQ Red

[GreyFox]

If you look at the save and turn on yields you will find that there is costal tiles towards the SE of Kyoto. (which is why I always play with yeilds, grid and resource indicator turned on), suggesting there is island there.

The reason why we are at 8gpt is because, I believe, we actually settled further away both south and east from the original starting position ... definitely not because we are closer the other way round.

Also, if you looked at Osaka, you will find that towards the northeast, the coastline seems to curve westward into the fog ... heh ... perhaps if we moved northeast initially, we will find that the landmass actually is alot closer to Kyoto there

Ok ... less conjecture.

I agree with not having citizen. The good thing abt citizen is it gives you a hammer, but the bad thing is it reduces your commerce, consdiering otherwise you would be working on a coastal tile. The lost of 2 commerce is not justified for the extra hammer, me think.

Any last words before I play the game?

(I will show you how to load the save later).

 

[GreyFox]

Loading the Game

Go to the Results and Progress page, there is a link to the submission page there. There, just read the instructions, and you should have it uploaded. After uploading, the page will give you a link to the saved file which you can copy and paste here, and also it will give an extracted log (which is uber-detailed esp. for combats), which you can use as replacement for autolog if you so desire.

--

 

[Krockel]

The best use we can have from Kyoto is commerce; so working the sea owns hiring citizens for one hammer.
Regarding at epic game we can do it every 15 turns without getting more then one .

Aiming for bronze working after our most essential techs make sense. After mining I think we should go for mysticism-wheel-BW.

 

[GreyFox]

Accords from the Lone Warrior

The land is vast. But I am alone. I am the only Warrior Japan has to protect itself. I must thread carefully.

However, I think there is still some time before barbarians will attack. I will use this time to observe the surrounding more carefully. I decided to move northeastwards.

Sure enough, lions were there. Come on, you beast! Show me what you've got!

Ha, is that all? I am victorious, but hey, look, that spanish scout may be able to take Kyoto. I better moved back to intercept him should he had any funny idea.

Ah... nah, he moved away. Agressive AI? PPbbbftt!

Time is running short, let me go onward a bit and see what the land reveal.

Hmm ... nothing interesting. Its abt time I head back to kyoto, heal myself, and prepare for the onslaught of the barbs. Hmm... what's that? Ah, kyoto told me that mining is learnt. They are starting to unveil the mystery of mysticism. That will be done in 10 turns, good! Kyoto need an obelisk for its people to feel reassured enough to work further away from the city center.

Then, kyoto produced a worker. Ha, lets get those gems digged up. They shall support our researchers.

Wait, did I hear a lion roar again?

Hmm, let me go to the forest to the east, and see what's going on out there. AH-ha, yet another lion across the river!! Come on, you beast. Attack if you dare ... holy mother sh!t!!! It really dares!!!


But of-course I am victorious. Ah, and I feel something different. There is a blue aura flowing all around me! I am becoming a god! I am the God of Battle!!!!

Muwahhahahaa!

---

Some Notes

Kyoto hit size 4 and is unhealthy already

Not only that, it is also at happiness limit. Suggest next player to turn on avoid growth just before it grows. Build/whip a warrior next to resolve the happiness issue.

It makes no difference whether the next workboat is sent to the fish or crabs. Fish gives one more food than crabs, but crabs give one health, thereby cancelling the unhealthy food consumption.

Mysticism is in at my last turn, archer is due to come out in 6 turns, and the warrior remains unpromoted and unmoved. Brace yourself for barbs.

>>> The Save (2800BC) <<<

Spoiler My Manual Log :

3310BC (#23):
Looks okay, but we should scout a bit more.
There is still some time before barb start to appear.
SO I move the warrior NE.

3280BC (#24):

3250BC (#25):

3220BC (#26):
Lion appears, I move to a forest next to it, hopefully it attacks and we gain free exp.

3190BC (#27):
We won, at 1.42. Isabella's scout appeared, I don't want to lose Oskaa for nothing, so moved warrior back so that if Isabella declared, I will take his scout out.

3160BC (#28):
Isabella's scout moves away. Phew. Not that agressive.

3130BC (#29):
I moved one more tile northwards. That's the maximum I should go. Need to head back, heal and prepare for the onslaught of raging barbs.

3100BC (#30):
Start moving back ... 10 more turns til Barbs, 1 more for mining, 2 more for worker, 15 more for workboat

3070BC (#31):
Mining in. I agree on Mysticism (10) next so that we can build the obelisk or stonehedge. Its also much faster than BW.

3040BC (#32):
Worker done, starts mining gems. Start archer (19) in Osaka. Hopefully after the gems, we could speed it up a little, else barbs will give problems!!!!

3010BC (#33):

2980BC (#34):
Lions is looking longingly at our worker.

2950BC (#35):
Comeon, lions, attack me! I need one exp to level up!

2920BC (#36):
We won, gaining 1 more exp. I leave him unpromoted.
Kyoto hit size 4 and is unhealthy already! Geez. But we are starting to earn 1 gpt.

2890BC (#37):

2860BC (#38):
Gems is mined, reducing archer to 9 turns.

2830BC (#39):
Start mining gold (6), warrior healed, remain guarding the gems. Archer in 8.

2800BC (#40):
Mysticism in, start BW (14 @ 70%).
Warrior remains unmoved and unpromoted.
Brace yourself for the onslaught of barbs!
Kyoto is at happy limit, so suggest next player to turn on avoid growth just before it grow (6).
Work boat in 5, archer in (7), osaka grow in 6.

Spoiler SGOTM-Extracted-Log :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 3310 BC to 2800 BC:


Turn 26, 3220 BC: Barbarian's Lion (2.00) vs VQ Red's Warrior (3.60)
Turn 26, 3220 BC: Combat Odds: 2.9%
Turn 26, 3220 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 26, 3220 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 26, 3220 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 26, 3220 BC: VQ Red's Warrior is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 26, 3220 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 26, 3220 BC: VQ Red's Warrior is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 26, 3220 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 26, 3220 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 26, 3220 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 26, 3220 BC: VQ Red's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Lion!

Turn 30, 3100 BC: You have discovered Mining!

Turn 35, 2950 BC: Barbarian's Lion (2.00) vs VQ Red's Warrior (4.10)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: Combat Odds: 0.8%
Turn 35, 2950 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: VQ Red's Warrior is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: VQ Red's Warrior is hit for 14 (72/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 35, 2950 BC: VQ Red's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Lion!

Turn 39, 2830 BC: You have discovered Mysticism!

 

[GreyFox]

For what its worth, we are currently the top-scorer, and one of the fastest team, lagging behind VQ-Black only by 1 turn!



--

 

[GreyFox]

Roster

Maquis (Leader) -- North America == settled us a very nice spot!
GreyFox -- Asia == just played, Lion Slayer
Codeman -- North America == UP
Scowler (Scribe) -- Europe == On Deck
armstrong -- North America
Krockel -- Europe

Dot (Official Lurker) == Always Up

--

 

[Maquis]

For the seond workboat, maybe we should try to explore with it a little. We don't *need* to hook up the crabs yet, as the unhealthyness is not hurting, since we are at the happy limit anyways. The boat should be able to reach the islands to the north, and see if there is an island chain where we could reach someone else...

Good to see we are positive cash flow with 70% research. Hopefully we will continue to improve that as we can work the gems and gold mines.

I want to stress that several Archers need to be built in Osaka. We need to be sure we secure the gems and gold mines. We can't afford to have our economy devistated by pillagers, as we are just starting to get it rolling...

 

[Maquis]

Also, after a warrior in Kyoto, is it time to start on stonehedge?

At current research, BW is due in 14 turns, but that will go down when Osaka grows. After growth, we can work another commerce tile (unfortunatly not both gold & gems yet)

Hopefully slavery will be available in 12 turns or less. I say let Kyoto grow into unhappness, as it is just more population for the Kyoto still will not starve with an angry citizen. It will be fine @ size 5, or size 6 when we get a warrior produced.

I'm trying to come up with a strategy for whipping Stonehedge ASAP.

Here's a couple thoughts... we build a warrior, and whip with one turn to go, for max overflow (should be around 42 hammers?). Pour the overflow into the hedge. As mentioned, the warrior produced will eliminate the unhappy for military protection. We will then only have the 15 turns for whipping penalty (epic speed again) At the end of this we have 42 (whip overflow) + 30 (2/turn) hammers in the wonder. (72 total)

Stonehedge costs 180 hammers on epic, and we get 45 hammers/pop for whipping? So with 3 population available, (assuming we can get to size 6) we can whip the hedge... 72 prior + 135 for 3 pop.

We may even be able to do this sooner. The key is getting Kyoto to grow to size 6, so we can whip 3 population.

 

[Codeman]

will look at save after work. probably 3 hours or so.

 

[GreyFox]

You don't want Kyoto to grow into unhappiness ... yes , we can support him. But AFAIK, maintenance goes up with pop size. So, not only does angry citizen eat food, it steals money as well. I might be wrong here though.

Why can't we work on both gems and gold? The gold mine will be done by the time Osaka grow to size 2. The only thing with working on both the gems and gold is it will cause Osaka to stop growing, which I think is a small cost. We need the hammer from gold mine (not to say the commerce as well). That is the reason I mined the gems first, because the gems is on a plains with 2F, it allows Osaka to grow while working on it.

I think we need to work on both gold and gems, at least initially until we get 2 archers, then switch the gold to oasis for growth. By then, hopefully the hedge is in effect, so that once osaka grows, its culture will pop as well, giving us access to the rice and sheep for further growth.

Good idea on exploring a bit with the workboat!!! Silly of me never to think of it. But careful there, barb do spawn galleys.

--

 

[Codeman]

ok. home now. got it. will begin play.

 

[Codeman]

1.have healed warrior go back to Osaka to prepare for barbs.

2.fortify warrior in Osaka.

3.

4.

5.Kyoto work boat> warrior
one turn til growth>turn on avoid growth
work boat>move to NW corner of culture border for exploring reasons
worker finish mine>have worker move to gem mine and build road. This way if a barb is on it we can kill and retreat in same move before mine is pillaged

6.work boat begins exploring counter clock wise the islands. First the one to the west.

7.Osaka archer>archer
a bear has shown up across the river to the E of Osaka. Send archer to gem mine
work boat has shown the island to the W has 2 clams and 1 cow/grassland

8.in an effort to increase production and continue growth in Osaka, change citizens to gold mine and oasis
worker to gold mine for road building
archer to forest on river banks. The bear disappeared.
work baot cont counter clock wise exploration

9.worker begins building the mine
see our first barb, a warrior WNW of Osaka
archer return to gem mine, headed to protect Osaka
work boat has revealed all of islands. Found whale N of island with stones and 1 E as well

10.moving work boat back to Kyoto
archer to gold mine
barb is due W of Osaka in forest. Barb warrior has a 50% defense bonus where he is. I let him either attack fortified warrior in city or archer on gold mine

11.gibbon claims we are 8th and Isabella is first in regards to most advanced
Kyoto finished warrior>stonehenge(warrior will take 5 turns and BW will finish in 4. next turn I will switch to warrior, then after BW will whip to get overflow in to Stonehenge)
fortify warrior in Kyoto
work boat to crabs NW of Kyoto
archer from gold mine back to Osaka and fortify

12.worker finished road>return to Osaka for safety
barb warrior to the NE and another to the SW
have archer attack warrior to the NE (using road can attack outside border)92% odds, we win. Still have barb warrior SW just outside border
work boat to crabs>work ‘em(unhealthy gone from kyoto)

13.archer back to gem mine
switch Kyoto to warrior to get more over flow in henge

14.barb warrior wastes his time attacking Osaka
archer, along with some blue sparklies, returns to Osaka to heal

15.BW>pottery
adopt slavery
oaska archer>archer
archer moves SW to forest to stop barb warrior from entering border

16.barb warrior approaching from S
let archer heal in forest
also have barb archer coming from W
move archer from osaka to protect gem mine and fortify

17.barb attacks and kills archer fortified on gem mine
move archer from forest to Osaka to aid warrior in defending the city

18.lost gem mine
now have one archer and one warrior defending, working is cowering in a closet
whip 1 citizen to finish archer in Osaka

19.lost gold mine
barb archer attacks Osaka and archer kills him
Osaka archer>archer
1 turn left on warrior in Kyoto so I whip it to get overflow on Stonehenge
our archer killed barb warrior on gold
fortify one archer on gold
wake worker and have him rebuild gold mine

20.fortify warrior in Kyoto

let next player decide if they want to retreat to Osaka (archer and worker) or cont building gold mine. Also archer in Osaka has promotion avail. After BW i checked for copper, none. i'll bet there's iron but we won't find it until IW. Before we lost the archer and mines we had 124 points.

and our final military status in osaka...

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm2/VQ_Red_SG002_BC2200_01.Civ4SavedGame

 

[armstrong]

Argh! Terrible news about losing both mines, but a very good & detailed report

This is why I hate raging barbs. I don't mind dealing with them, but the randomness is too much. We probably had 70%+ odds to save the gem mine, but we lost. Somewhere, in the other teams games, the majority of folks won that battle and didn't lose 7C/turn, completely changing the game.

In retrospect, it might have been smarter to mine gold first - an archer can protect that much better than the flatland gems. The problem is that it kills city growth, and you need to protect a farm/sheepses instead. Hmm.

It looks like you used some savvy whipping there in Kyoto... I see 22 hammers of overflow!

A two clam+cow island? That's interesting. I took a look, we could theoretically settle both the clam-cow island and the double whale+stone island (What did they when that made this map?) They'll be drags on the economy once we move the palace, but - we could theoretically research Sailing and whip out a galley & 2 settlers and settle those as our first two cities instead of the mainland. If the cities can grow to size 4 in the meantime they can each provide 9C. If we did this, Colossus would be the #1 priority - we could sustain our mainland force with a triad of fishing villages working 3C tiles... We'd need to sacrifice the Henge (not terrible, as we just traded 1 pop for 22 gold ) This would let Osaka focus on building defense, the palace, and then an offense to capture cities. Even pre-Colossus, at size 4 they could generate 9 commerce/turn.

I don't know, how crazy does that sound? Pretty crazy to me, but it would let us have a decent economy until the Palace is moved, giving us time to get fog busters out in Osaka instead of worrying about two settlers.

Stonehedge costs 180 hammers on epic, and we get 45 hammers/pop for whipping? So with 3 population available, (assuming we can get to size 6) we can whip the hedge... 72 prior + 135 for 3 pop.

Wonders get a -100% penalty when being whipped, though, unfortunately (and National Wonders -50%?) If we grew to size 6, we could finish off the 'henge when it has 66 hammers left on it. Our best bet is to whip another warrior (when he's almost finished) then disband him... do that once or twice more every 15 turns and then grow and whip the 'henge fully.

 

[Codeman]

fyi for next player.

i think i forgot to turn off avoid growth after whipping in kyoto.

 

[GreyFox]

I hope you remmeber to turn off "avoid growth" 1 turn before the warrior pops.

EDIT: ha, just saw your post. Hmm ... you mean it has been on avoid growth all this while? nevermind, no big deal, 2 turns of growth wasted only ...

Tough luck losing archer to warrior. But IMHO its better to remine the gems rather than the gold first ... the gems allow growth.

Good thinking abt getting cows and clams ... I don't know how it will impact our economy, but sounds like a good plan. One thing abt the cows island is damned!, we need a worker to reap the production benefits of cows, but he is totally useless after that until Astronomy!

Nah, don't worry abt the score, just have fun. Of-course mention we are first in score for morale boost, but when we drop in score, just ignore it

--

 

[GreyFox]

Roster

Maquis (Leader) -- North America == settled us a very nice spot!
GreyFox -- Asia == Lion Slayer
Codeman -- North America == just played ... some rough luck with barbies
Scowler (Scribe) -- Europe == UP
armstrong -- North America == On Deck
Krockel -- Europe

Dot (Official Lurker) == Always Up ... but is currently OoP ... come back quick, need shome cheerleading

--

 

[Scowler]

Off to play now.

 

[dot]

What do these buildings have in common, folks?

1. Angkor Wat
2. Chichen Itza
3. Notre Dame
4. Stonehenge
5. The Great Lighthouse
6. The Hanging Gardens
7. The Kremlin
8. The Pyramids
9. The Spiral Minaret
10. Ironworks
11. Mt. Rushmore
12. Oxford University
13. West Point

-------- While you are pondering this let me obey the Fox and cheer! --------

 

[Krockel]

Good turns there Codeman. Playing when the barbs shows up is IMHO the hardest thing in this game we call Civ. To bad we lost that archer though, but we'll survive.

Regarding settle those two northern island; I think it's a better option to settle two cities west or southwest of Osaka. To bust fog, grab metal/horses and support Osaka regarding troops.

For research I believe we need IW after pottery. Get iron is essential for our offensive purposes.

 

[Scowler]

Regarding settle those two northern island; I think it's a better option to settle two cities west or southwest of Osaka. To bust fog, grab metal/horses and support Osaka regarding troops.

For research I believe we need IW after pottery. Get iron is essential for our offensive purposes.

Sorry Krockel. If I'd read your post earlier I would have taken it into account. As it was, I considered IW to be too far away at present. This may be ; I'm not sure.