SGOTM 02 - VQ Red

Things are really looking up! The important stuff:

1. CoL will be researched in 2 turns. I've set the islands to max growth so they have pop to whip courthouses.
2. We captured Santiago and Barcelona. Barcelona is not online yet. Santiago wasn't nearly as bad as I thought, since it can work the gems tile for Osaka, freeing it work a cottage.
3. Izzy will give us 280 gold for peace. I don't think it's a bad deal, as we don't have the forces to grab Madrid yet. However, her cities seem very lightly defended, we could probably take another non-capital, though we're down to 2 swords. Her response was tepid (4 archers and 1 horse to pillage, no stack.)
4. We met Bismarck via a cultural bridge from the islands! Opening trade routes got us 6 commerce/turn, and our galley is being sent to explore the new land. He's hindu (not the founder) and much stronger than us. Neither of us can reach each other except through OB pre-Astronomy.
5. I played 19 turns. That's the turn after capturing Barcelona, when Izzy would talk to us and when we met Bismarck. It seemed like a good place to stop and discuss. Codeman played 20, I wasn't sure if I was supposed to drop down or not, but I got bloodthirsty anyway. ;)
6. I think we should convert to Judaism. Barcelona will probably need the culture to fight Madrid on the north, and it would let us get OB with Izzy again (she's such a religious nut!) while we build up to finish her off.
7. We got a great scientist. He can either get us Philosophy (might be good trade bait, since we know there's at least one other Hindu nation out there) or retire as a specialist.

The actual report:

Pre Turn
Whip Aqueduct in Edo (and just in the nick of time! One more turn and we'd get no spillover.) Why are we building two aqueducts? Hmm. Switch to a coliseum instead in capital for +happy.

Whip library in Tokyo. Why haven't these cities been whipped? Seriously, the next person who forgets to :whipped: our island cities is getting :whipped: themselves with a wet noodle. :D

Move some troops around. I can't figure out the reasoning behind most of 'em. Isabella is busting up most the fog. Move the gold hills archer to defend Osaka. Send the medic warrior to join our main stack.

We have a sword fog busting? Send an axe to relieve him so he can bust some Izzy instead.

Turn 1
Um, the Hanging Gardens were already built last turnset... just some more unit shuffling.

Turn 2
Barcelona only has two archers (one CD2 though) - I'll declare pretty soon. Santiago also only has two archers and minimal culture - it overlaps two food tiles and gems with Osaka - not bad as it'd free Osaka up to work some of it's other great tiles.

Turn 3
Realize we're going to need some spears to defend against Izzy's horses.

Turn 4
Holding off attack until we have spears.

Turn 5
Izzy cancels OB with us... because we're buddhist :lol:

Turn 6

Turn 7
Spear in. Declaration next turn.

Turn 8
Currency comes in, research set to CoL.

Izzy left us a present:
present.jpg


Turn 9
Down to 22 gpt at 0% research due to unit/supply costs.

Santiago captured with no losses:
santiago.jpg


Turn 10
Save a gpt by disbanding worker at the island cow, he's no use to us anymore.

Barcelona has a spear and two archers. Going to push on ahead I think, but wait for units to heal and see how badly Santiago hurts the economy.

Turn 11
Izzy sends an archer out of Barcelona... down to 1 archer 1 spear.

Turn 12
I pin up Izzy's forces in Toledo, two workers are trapped.

Turn 13
Santiago online. Looks like I made a mountain out of a molehill. We can still run at 23 gpt @ 0%.

Send out the forces. Izzy has a chariot out, and we're short a spear.

Turn 14
Izzy's chariot disappeared, but I think I know where it is. Move a spear out to protect us from it. Workers move to the coast so they don't get nabbed.

Turn 15
Kill Izzy's chariot with spearman. She has an archer, but it can't do anything since I have a sword nearby. She's sending a number of archers out to attack our capital - 3 this turn, but we have a Cover sword who's make short work of them.

Turn 16
Great Scientist is born in the islands. He can either discover Philosophy for us after CoL comes in (with Meditation, if we don't have it) or retire him.

Pull a fog burner back to protect mines from Izzy's archers.

Turn 17 485
Bombard Barcelona, wait a turn.

TUrn 18, 500 AD
Izzy sends out another chariot, should be incoming to our lands next turn. Watch the workers in Santiago!

Izzy has a CD2 archer in Barcelona, so need to attack at 72% odds (not bad, really, but we barely wound it! :mad:) The other two swords win, city is taken. The shrine is worth 5 gpt when it comes online.

Turn 19, 515 AD
Well, HELLO! We meet the leader of the Hindu Germans, Bismarck. He's connected via a cultural bridge to the islands:

biz.jpg


bisborder.jpg


Sign open borders with him, our economy loves the 6 gpt from the trade routes!

Izzy will offer this for peace:
peace.jpg
 
armstrong said:
2. We captured Madrid and Barcelona. Barcelona is not online yet. Madrid wasn't nearly as bad as I thought, since it can work the gems tile for Osaka, freeing it work a cottage.
3. Izzy will give us 280 gold for peace. I don't think it's a bad deal, as we don't have the forces to grab Madrid yet.

:confused: ... reading on, I think need to apply a
Code:
\s\Madrid\Santiago
for the second bullet ;)

Good job whipping Pouty's arse! I agree witha peace treaty now as well .. we need to build up a bit more to take Madrid.

Oooo, Bismarck is in the islands as well? Good, hopefully he will spread some religion to Kyoto!

Good turns, no problem with going 20 turns. I think we should go one more round of ~15 turns. Don't have to stop on the dot. Stop when you feel you have accomplished something or when you need team's decision.

Dot is UP!
 
GreyFox said:
:confused: ... reading on, I think need to apply a
Code:
\s\Madrid\Santiago
for the second bullet ;)

Whoops... guess I had Madrid on my mind... :mischief: I edited it, we captured Santiago & Barcelona.

GreyFox said:
Good turns, no problem with going 20 turns. I think we should go one more round of ~15 turns. Don't have to stop on the dot. Stop when you feel you have accomplished something or when you need team's decision.

Yeah, I had planned on quitting when Santiago came online to see if we should keep going, but with the shared gem tile, the river, and the trade routes, it didn't hurt our economy that much (maybe 10-15%? Nowhere near the danger zone.)

I figured in that situation everyone would want to go ahead and capture Barcelona anyway, and I had a little "rage" left in me from my nightmare with the barbs. [pissed] And, a holy city guarded by a single archer and spear? :goodjob: Izzy. I don't know if it's her expansive trait kicking in, but she doesn't have anything in the way of a military... too bad we need to move the palace to take much more.

Go get 'em Dot! By 'em, I mean Courthouses!

Oh, I didn't mention this in the last turnset, but I put a turn worth of hammers on a Palace in Osaka. It has 19 turns left on it (though you could definitely speed that up if you want to sacrifice some commerce or chop some timber) and we should be able to whip courthouses in the island cities while it's being built, so there shouldn't be a shock in moving it (actually, with CH's in the islands it would substantially help our economy.) We'll need to capture 2 more of Izzy's cities to build FP, though.
 
Oh, two more final things. The only really useful wonder left for us that uses stone is Angkor Wat. Taoism has been founded, but we might have a shot at it in the islands with their stone if we burnt the GS on Philosophy. But it's an expensive wonder and I don't know if we could get it done with just spillover whips...

Secondly, Bismarck will trade Incense to us for crabs or stone, so we should get a second workboat out (one's already started in Edo and will be done before :whipped: unhappiness wears off) to get second crabs. Does anyone know if the incense will help our mainland cities? If we move the Palace, does the trade get cancelled?
 
First off, :thumbsup: on taking it to Izzy. That's a good start to the war.

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think the incense trade will help the mainland.

If we move the Palace, the trade won't get canceled... I assume it will just be available to the mainland cities instead.

As for the war, I agree taking the cash now for peace is the best idea. We need to build up a little more, and Madrid should be our next target. I don't think we can wait too long, as I assume Izzy will have LB's before long. I hope we can take Madrid before she has them...
 
:goodjob: Hey everybody. I've got it. Just linked it since armstrong didn't. :crazyeye:

I'll be visiting a friend and my parents during the weekend. But I'll be able to play on the train. I'll see to it that it'll be played and submitted until Saturday, 8 PM (GMT +2).

As far as I can see it'll be some builder turns in courthouses and military. I'll try out sth on the WorldBuilder to check whether moving the palace or waiting for the FP would be better.

Any thoughts or comments will have to be posted within the next ninety minutes. After that I'll be offline. And I might not have access to the internet until Saturday, 1 PM (GMT +2).

:king: (4=d) regards, .
 
First things first: I've decided to leave the palace where it is. The following facts have been taken into account:
  1. The price of the FP would be 300 :hammers: while the palace does cost 240 :hammers:. To build both of them would cost a total of 540 :hammers:. So it's simply cheaper to build the FP in Osaka and leave the palace where it is.
  2. The FP brings +4:culture:. And the culture will be more likely needed in Osaka than in Kyoto.
  3. The FP also contributes +1 Great Merchant pt. And I figured that it doesn't really matter where we're gonna have a GM pop.
So the palace in Osaka has been vetoed. This has also been driven by my fear that our troops won't be many enough. It might turn out to be a :smoke:.

And I've played 19 turns. This did even out our year to 800 AD. And Maquis ... I hope you'll enjoy your set of turns. ;)
 
turn 00: 515 AD
Vetoed the Palace > Swordsman.
Dropped :science: to 80% changing our "outcome" from-31 gpt to -24 gpt. CoL still due in 2.
Moved the worker NE of Snatiogo one tile west to start road.
I took a look around a found everything to my pleasure.
Pressed enter.

IBT: Izzy's chariot captured the very worker. :mad:

turn 01: 530 AD
Send the galley to Bismarck to explore his lands.
Killed Izzy's chariot. Little A$$hole! :D
Izzy's is still willing to pay 280 for peace but she won't give us Seville. No.
Enter.

turn 02: 545 AD
Ladies and Gentlemen - we have laws!
Science at 50% will leave us with 0 gpt.
Researchwise I've decided to go for meditation to get judaism spread to get us some money.
Looks like we've met Hatty by LoS. And look what she's got! :eek:

Spoiler :
methatty.jpg

Santiago: Granary >> Courthouse.
Enter.

turn 03: 560 AD
Barcelona is online. Gpt to -4. I start a courthouse.
Kyoto has grown as is very unhappy and unhealthy. I poprush the colloseum for 4 pop!
And Izzy is visiting Osaka. Let's see how far she'll get.
Enter.

turn 04: 575 AD
Kyoto has a colloseum. Aqueduct is due in 1 turn as is growth.
And - hear, hear - we have taoism in Kyoto!
I drop science to 30%. Meditation is still due in 2 with +12 gpt.
Look whom we have met!

Spoiler :
metmansa.jpg

Our Swordsman has destroyed Izzy's archer.
Enter.

turn 05: 590 AD
Holy Crap. Izzy adopts Theocracy!
Kyoto: Aqueduct >> Courthouse.
Interimsave due to arriving at Munich. :blush:

--- One day later ... I'm back.
:whipped: the colloseum in Tokyo.
Decided on withdrawing one fogbuster from the southwest.
Took peace with Izzy for 290 :gold:.
Enter.

turn 06: 605 AD
Tokyo: Colloseum >> Courthouse.
Edo: queued a Colloseum since the domestic advisor kind of demanded it.
Research: Meditation >> Priesthood (due in 4). The thought to this has been to be able to construct temples to gain Great Prophets on the islands and maybe get CS via them.
Enter.

turn 07: 620 AD
Been rising :science: to 40%. Priesthood due in 2 with +4 gpt.
We've met another fellow:

Spoiler :
whatHChas.jpg

Oh and a barb popped up in the southwest. A lonely warrior. And this is what happend to him:

Spoiler :
dyingwarrior.jpg

:whipped: a swordsman in Osaka.
Enter.

turn 08: 635 AD
Osaka: Swordsman >> Courthouse (due in 4).
Galley returns since we can't sign OB with HC.
Turned on avoid growth in Edo!
Enter.

turn 09: 650 AD
Research: Priesthood >> Alphabet (due in 17 at 40% :science: with +1 gpt).
If you've been curious to know who's got The Colossus, The Hanging Gardens and The Oracle. He has:

Spoiler :
mansaswonders.jpg

Enter.

turn 10: 665 AD
Alpha dropped to 14 turns!
And nothing else mattered this turn.
Enter.

--------------------------------

to be continued ...
 
The continuing story of Bungalow Toku ...

turn 11: 680 AD
Edo: Workboat >> Colloseum.
Clams in Edo are fished. I trade them to Hatty for dye to help with our :) in Edo.
Alpha dropped to 11 turns!
Enter.

turn 12: 695 AD
Osaka: Courthouse :eek: >> Archer.
As a result I raise :science: to 50%. Alpha now due in 8 with +3 gpt.
Enter.

turn 13: 710 AD
Poprushed Courthouse in Kyoto to get rid of the Unhappy.
Turned on avoid growth in Kyoto! Since we have 2 unhappy now due to whipping.
Enter.

turn 14: 725 AD
:whipped: a Courthouse in Santiago.
Enter.

turn 15: 740 AD
Osaka: Archer >> Cat.
Started a road between Santiago and Barcelona.
Enter.

IBT: The peacy treaty with Izzy has been cancelled.

turn 16: 755 AD
Upgrade warrior to axeman in Barcelona.
Stack him with a spearman.
Stack the rest.
Move towards Madrid.
Declare war.
:D.
Enter.

turn 17: 770 AD
A barb axe appeared in the southwest. And this is what happend to him:

Spoiler :
dyingaxe.jpg

Enter.

turn 18: 785 AD
So much for the spanish archer in the woods:

Spoiler :
diebabydie.jpg

Enter.

turn 19: 800 AD
:sleep:
Enter.

The current situation:
This is what our islands look like:

islands.jpg


Notice that I've turned on "avoid growth" in Kyoto and in Edo!

Osaka and Santiago look like this:

osakasantiago.jpg


To the southwest you'll find a sparkling axeman:

sparklingaxe.jpg


And this is the situation at Madrid's front door. I sincerely hope you enjoy your first turn, Maquis!

ihopeyouenjoytheshowmaquis.jpg


Alpha is due in 1 turn.

...............: :crazyeye: :...............

So go ahead folks and discuss. I hope I didn't do any major :smoke:.

Regards, .
 
Oh, the GS is still waiting for sth to do in Kyoto. I've also been considering to build an academy since Kyoto is one of our major research sites. But since I had no possibility to check with you guys I've decided on letting him be. Philosophy would still be an option though heading for the Angkor Wat will be out of reach by now - probably.
 
Oops, sorry Maquis. To enjoy taking out Madrid you might need the 800 AD save, hmm?

And here is the autolog:
Spoiler :
Turn 202, 530 AD: VQ Red's Axeman (6.00) vs Isabella's Chariot (4.00)
Turn 202, 530 AD: Combat Odds: 90.1%
Turn 202, 530 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 202, 530 AD: VQ Red's Axeman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 202, 530 AD: Isabella's Chariot is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 202, 530 AD: VQ Red's Axeman is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 202, 530 AD: Isabella's Chariot is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 202, 530 AD: VQ Red's Axeman is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 202, 530 AD: VQ Red's Axeman is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 202, 530 AD: VQ Red's Axeman is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 202, 530 AD: Isabella's Chariot is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 202, 530 AD: Isabella's Chariot is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 202, 530 AD: VQ Red's Axeman is hit for 16 (4/100HP)
Turn 202, 530 AD: Isabella's Chariot is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 202, 530 AD: VQ Red's Axeman has defeated Isabella's Chariot!
Turn 202, 530 AD: You have discovered Code of Laws!

Turn 203, 545 AD: Plato has been born in a far away land!

Turn 204, 560 AD: You have constructed a Colosseum in Kyoto. Work has now begun on a Aqueduct.
Turn 204, 560 AD: Taoism has spread in Kyoto.

Turn 205, 575 AD: VQ Red's Swordsman (7.20) vs Isabella's Archer (2.60)
Turn 205, 575 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 205, 575 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 205, 575 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 205, 575 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 205, 575 AD: Isabella's Archer is hit for 32 (68/100HP)
Turn 205, 575 AD: Isabella's Archer is hit for 32 (36/100HP)
Turn 205, 575 AD: Isabella's Archer is hit for 32 (4/100HP)
Turn 205, 575 AD: Isabella's Archer is hit for 32 (0/100HP)
Turn 205, 575 AD: VQ Red's Swordsman has defeated Isabella's Archer!
Turn 205, 575 AD: Isabella adopts Theocracy!

Turn 206, 590 AD: You have made peace with Isabella!
Turn 206, 590 AD: You have discovered Meditation!

Turn 208, 620 AD: VQ Red's Axeman (5.50) vs Barbarian's Warrior (1.14)
Turn 208, 620 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 208, 620 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 208, 620 AD: (Combat: -75%)
Turn 208, 620 AD: VQ Red's Axeman is hit for 10 (90/100HP)
Turn 208, 620 AD: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 39 (61/100HP)
Turn 208, 620 AD: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 39 (22/100HP)
Turn 208, 620 AD: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 39 (0/100HP)
Turn 208, 620 AD: VQ Red's Axeman has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
Turn 208, 620 AD: The borders of Edo have expanded!

Turn 209, 635 AD: You have discovered Priesthood!
Turn 209, 635 AD: Thespis has been born in a far away land!

Turn 211, 665 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Edo. Work has now begun on a Colosseum.

Turn 212, 680 AD: Mansa Musa adopts Bureaucracy!

Turn 214, 710 AD: You have constructed a Courthouse in Kyoto. Work has now begun on a Taoist Temple.

Turn 215, 725 AD: You have constructed a Courthouse in Santiago. Work has now begun on a Granary.

Turn 216, 740 AD: The borders of Tokyo have expanded!
Turn 216, 740 AD: Isabella adopts Organized Religion!

Turn 217, 755 AD: You have declared war on Isabella!

Turn 218, 770 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Osaka!
Turn 218, 770 AD: VQ Red's Axeman (5.50) vs Barbarian's Axeman (4.00)
Turn 218, 770 AD: Combat Odds: 79.5%
Turn 218, 770 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 218, 770 AD: (Combat: -75%)
Turn 218, 770 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 218, 770 AD: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 218, 770 AD: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 218, 770 AD: VQ Red's Axeman is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 218, 770 AD: VQ Red's Axeman is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 218, 770 AD: VQ Red's Axeman is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 218, 770 AD: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 218, 770 AD: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 218, 770 AD: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 218, 770 AD: VQ Red's Axeman has defeated Barbarian's Axeman!
Turn 218, 770 AD: Your Axeman has destroyed a Axeman!
Turn 218, 770 AD: Hatshepsut adopts Vassalage!
Turn 218, 770 AD: Hatshepsut adopts Serfdom!

Turn 219, 785 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Osaka!
Turn 219, 785 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Osaka!
Turn 219, 785 AD: VQ Red's Swordsman (7.20) vs Isabella's Archer (5.10)
Turn 219, 785 AD: Combat Odds: 85.0%
Turn 219, 785 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 219, 785 AD: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 219, 785 AD: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 219, 785 AD: Isabella's Archer is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 219, 785 AD: Isabella's Archer is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 219, 785 AD: VQ Red's Swordsman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 219, 785 AD: VQ Red's Swordsman is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 219, 785 AD: Isabella's Archer is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 219, 785 AD: VQ Red's Swordsman is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 219, 785 AD: Isabella's Archer is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 219, 785 AD: Isabella's Archer is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 219, 785 AD: VQ Red's Swordsman has defeated Isabella's Archer!
Turn 219, 785 AD: Your Swordsman has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 219, 785 AD: Chuang-Tzu has been born in Madrid!

Turn 220, 800 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Osaka!
Turn 220, 800 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Osaka!

Kind regards, .
 
I think getting Philosophy for trading material is solid. It looks like only Hatty has Alphabet and she doesn't have Philo, so we should be able to get close to tech parity.

I disagree with not moving the palace. We'd lose out on a lot of the benefits of Bureacracy if we keep the capital in Kyoto - unless - see below.

Edo doesn't have a courthouse yet, but it's working on a coliseum? We should change that. :)

I think we should switch religions to none we can get culture in Barcelona and smooth things over with the other island.

Now that izzy is basically crippled (well, hopefully) we should think about how we want to achieve fast conquest. I can think of two options:

A. Whip Globe + HE in Kyoto, build FP in Osaka. Have Kyoto work all 4 food tiles and whip out a massive medieval force with galleys. Keep OB with Bismarck at all costs, and go after Hatty. Then, with a beachhead established, just spam units. We don't know if there's another island nation out there, but if not, this lets us win without getting Astronomy.

B. Tech up to Astronomy, Chemistry, Steel. Try to get as many CR2 maces built as possibly to upgrade to Grens. Take over the world with Grens & Cannons.
 
I aslo think that the palace is better shifted ... but I agree with dot's veto ... having the couthouse whipped at the Edo and Tokyo first before shifting the palace is an optimal move, I think (since Osaka's side currenty only has 2 cities).

Good job, looks like Madrid will soon be in our bag! :goodjob: This begs the question ... which is better to house the palace? Osaka or Madrid?

Whipping an entire army capable of taking Hatty??? You must be crazy! :lol: But I like that idea, a possible route. In any case, the globe should definitely go to Kyoto, our prime slavery house :evil: ... however, as we need Drama, and 6 more theatres befor ephase 1 (building the Globe) can be accompished, I don't see how it will happen before the first millenium has pass. But meanwhile, let's start preparatory work for that ... get the remaining seafood online.

--
 
I got the save, plaing in a few hours.

(Oh, a big thanks to dot for leaving my such a juicy present!)

So, after taking Madrid, do we continue on with Izzy, or should there be a third war to finish her off? Not sure if we have enough forces to take the rest of her cities yet...

The question of moving the palace is quite difficult. armstrong has a point, that Osaka (or even Madrid) would be great under Beuracracy. However, if the rest of out opponents are out by Kyoto...
 
GreyFox said:
Whipping an entire army capable of taking Hatty??? You must be crazy! :lol: But I like that idea, a possible route. In any case, the globe should definitely go to Kyoto, our prime slavery house :evil: ... however, as we need Drama, and 6 more theatres befor ephase 1 (building the Globe) can be accompished, I don't see how it will happen before the first millenium has pass. But meanwhile, let's start preparatory work for that ... get the remaining seafood online.

There's one huge problem, I realized - no metals in the islands! :sad:

Still, we're here to conquest... :) We need to take out Hatty & friends in the other island at some point, so how are we going to do that? Cats & LB's or wait for astronomy?

As for putting the Palace/FP in Madrid or Osaka, I'd say Osaka all the way. It has a lot more commerce than Madrid (which is mostly just high food, a born GPF) and it's more central.
 
Maquis said:
Oh, a big thanks to dot for leaving my such a juicy present!
:goodjob:

armstrong said:
As for putting the Palace/FP in Madrid or Osaka, I'd say Osaka all the way. It has a lot more commerce than Madrid (which is mostly just high food, a born GPF) and it's more central.
:yup:

armstrong said:
There's one huge problem, I realized - no metals in the islands! :sad:
True. So my plan would be ...
  1. Leave the palace where it is. Construct the FP in Osaka.
  2. Wipe out Izzy settle the continent and build up a huge military power-continent.
  3. Invest in a proper fleet. ... on the islands to protect our seafood! We'll be surrounded by enemies. :eek:
  4. Invest in a proper fleet. ... on the continent to protect our shores and to ship our troops. Wait for astronomy.
  5. But go for optics (beeline) after alpha to get us optics and the circumnavigation bonus possibly. Start caravels from both shores of the spanish continent asap.
  6. Maybe - this is optional - even leave some space for barb cities on the spanish continent for practice of our newly build troops.
  7. Just for the divine number. :D

So ... I expect some critics. :D

Regards, .

The roster:

Maquis == Is up!
GreyFox == On deck!
Scowler == relwocS
Codeman == namedoC
armstrong == gnortsmra
Krockel == OoP til 4th September
dot == Set up Maquis to capture Madrid.

Sorry for the colloseum everywhere. Should have been a colosseum everywhere. ;)
 
dot said:
True. So my plan would be ...
  1. Leave the palace where it is. Construct the FP in Osaka.
  2. Wipe out Izzy settle the continent and build up a huge military power-continent.
  3. Invest in a proper fleet. ... on the islands to protect our seafood! We'll be surrounded by enemies. :eek:
  4. Invest in a proper fleet. ... on the continent to protect our shores and to ship our troops. Wait for astronomy.
  5. But go for optics (beeline) after alpha to get us optics and the circumnavigation bonus possibly. Start caravels from both shores of the spanish continent asap.
  6. Maybe - this is optional - even leave some space for barb cities on the spanish continent for practice of our newly build troops.
  7. Just for the divine number. :D

So ... I expect some critics. :D

If we decide to focus on waiting until Astronomy to start conquering, we're going to have a lot of things on our hands. We're pretty backwards in tech right now, so even if we went straight for a Liberalism -> Astronomy sling (or something like that) we'd not be able to kill everyone before Rifles showed up.

If at all possible, it'd be nice to take out one opponent before Astronomy. I don't know if it's too late to do that without any metals, though. If one of Hatty's cities has iron or copper (preferably iron), a big stack of cats and some LB's should be able to take and hold it, though, and we can start shipping Samurai then.

Regarding the fleets - they're not really necessary, at least not the one in the islands. The islands are unreachable by galley unless we have OB with Fred, so we can lock it down relatively easily. This means it's very important, if we want to attack Hatty or someone else, to keep Fred on our good side so our forces don't get cut off. We could also go after Fred, too, but we'd need to have enough forces stationed in the mainland in Hatty's lands to take him out before declaring.
 
@ dot:
I don't understand why leave the palace where it is. Why not shift the palace to Osaka and build the FP in Kyoto? You just want to save the dsitance maint for palace in kyoto, but palace in Osaka is for bureacracy benefit as well as dist maint.

@armstrong
Question: why is it absolutely necessary we take out an AI first? The reason for early war is either to cripple them, or for land grab. For crippling them, you have to do it pretty fast. You have to build a globe theatre in Kyoto (that require Drama + 6 theatres) before that can even work. I say that is at least 60 turns away. Given that it will be LB+Cats vs possibly maces, you need a ratio of 3:1. While we can work towards that goal, I don't see why we have to choose between attacking pre-Astro or post-Astro. In any case, we would have Globe build in Kyoto. For land grab ... grabbing land from Hatty is roundabout. Concentrate on grabbing Osaka's surrounding first!

In summary,
I suggest that we start working towards having Globe Theatre in Kyoto, while taking the entire continent of Osaka. That will ensure we tech on par with AIs.
When Globe is available, then we re-evaluate the possibility of taking on one of the AI near Kyoto.

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