SGOTM 02 - VQ Red

[armstrong]

have through turn set. breaking for dinner. finish after.

which was posted 7 hours ago...

Hmm, too much again? (I'm not in a position to criticise...)

I don't know what to do with the GS. Education isn't a bad thing at all, as it'd probably ensure we'd get Liberalism->Astronomy (too bad we can't train cavalry to ride the cows in Edo )

 

[GreyFox]

Heh ... he is most likely snoring in Texas right now ... guess a reprot will come later when the sun finally rose over the horizon for Mid-US.

Agree on lightbulding the scientists, an academy is possible, but does not reap as much benefit as lightbulbing.

--

 

[Codeman]

sorry guys. report and save are now coming gimme a few minutes.

 

[Codeman]

1. great scientist in Kyoto>///have workers: one go to Osaka to build cottages, to begin roads to connect Salamanca (soon to be ours), one to cottage Barcelona///move troops to hill NW of Salamanca for attack next turn. It’s only defended by 1 archer & 1 axe///have work boat moving to SW crabs///

2. opened borders with KK. Santiago & Cordoba>switch to caravel. Will whip when can. Bomb Salamanca. Attack it with axe at 67% odds. Bad idea, he is lost. Will wait til city is bombed more. Workers build more roads and cottages. Continue exploring coast with galley. Work boat is fishing crabs. Try to get iron from bis for 4 of our resources. He just won’t do it.

3. galley>same///workers>same///cats bomb, other troops wait///switch to a warrior in Kyoto


4. suicide the cats and take Salamanca, decide to keep it.///galley and workers>same

5. and now open borders with hc///fort units in Salamanca///workers and galley>same

6. whip the warrior in Kyoto(1 turn left on it)///feud>divine right///galley 7 workers…

7. mao demands phil>no///salam>courtthouse///more of the same.

8. whipped the caravel in Santiago///workers and galleys…


9. caravel>go west///workers and galley same

10. Madrid harbor>market///worker,galley,caravel-same

11. whip caravel in Cordoba, more of the same

12. Tokyo harbor>cat, more of the same

13. Osaka granary>market///more of the same

14. sending the eastbound caravel to explore china//all else same

15. found a barb warrior on asaka cont, sending sword to get him///mm wants us to cancel with kk. Since need to keep ob with mm until finish galley going thru his coast yes. All else same.

and just some pics of the exploration project. see how small germany is.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm2/VQ_Red_SG002_AD1310_01.Civ4SavedGame

sorry for taking so long. won't happen again.

 

[dot]

I don't know what to do with the GS. Education isn't a bad thing at all, as it'd probably ensure we'd get Liberalism->Astronomy (too bad we can't train cavalry to ride the cows in Edo )

Sorry, armstrong ... but if we do have Astronomy wouldn't we have all the resources from the continent available on the islands the very next turn? If you've been thinking about getting the cow based cavalery before that ... forget my question.

Afterthought: If we'd go for Hatty we might not have the resources because she controls the channel?!

Regards, .

 

[dot]

Alright, since I am here already I might as well post some thoughts on the game, hum?

Nice set of turns, codeman!

reserach
Going for DR for Versailles is nice. But would we get paper with the GS? If not so ... I'd go for paper immediately and try to get a GP somewhere for finishing DR.

circumnavigation
Since you haven't mentioned it I assume that noone has been able to do it yet? That would be very nice to get, too!

war I
May the sword and the cat RIP. But it's pretty nice that Izzy is six feet under now. And it's good for the power graph, too.

war II
When it comes to decide on which AI civ we are to wreck havoc on first I'd say take a look around and go for the one with the least diplomatic support from the others. I don't think that we want someone to declare on us as soon as we "touch the ring"? (Cause one ring does unite them! )

your thoughts
???

the roster:
Maquis == siuqaM.
GreyFox == xoFyerG.
Scowler == relwocS.
Codeman == Finished off Izzy and ran for the circumnavigation!
armstrong == Up!
Krockel == OoP til 4th September.
dot == On deck.

Regards, .

 

[Codeman]

circumnavigation
Since you haven't mentioned it I assume that noone has been able to do it yet?

sorry. i forgot to say hatty did it right after i finished building and had set out. went ahead and went with the exploration as i thought it would move us closer to suppling the islands with troops/resources soonner. i was just going for the knowledge and military value.

 

[Maquis]

Good set of turns... I still think that Iron is needed on the islands before we can do any serios damage to the AIs...

 

[Codeman]

in the near future we could have it there. in the time it takes to get the cats we need we could have iron from the cont. i think anyway...

 

[armstrong]

Got it, looked at the save, and I have tons of things I think we should discuss. I'll bring it all up tomorrow, though.

 

[dot]

Could you structure the layout of your thoughts a bit, armstrong?
All in text is nice but sometimes hard to follow for me. Dankeschön.

Regards, .

 

[armstrong]

Hey everyone - I'm busy right now and won't be able to play until tomorrow night (probably 26ish hours from now.) So go ahead and skip me if someone else wants to play. Otherwise, I'll play tomorrow.

The short story of what I had planned on posting about:

1. I don't see Divine Right being useful to us. Where could we put Versailles that would save more than 2-3 gpt? We already have two central centers of government.

2. HC already has Nationalism. Did he get Liberalism? He'll have rifles soon.

3. We are woefully outteched and the military build-up in the islands is going slowly. Any ideas on how we can win this thing? What strategy can we pursue? It looks like our best bet is going to be Chemistry & Steel?

 

[Scowler]

The short story of what I had planned on posting about:

1. I don't see Divine Right being useful to us. Where could we put Versailles that would save more than 2-3 gpt? We already have two central centers of government.

2. HC already has Nationalism. Did he get Liberalism? He'll have rifles soon.

3. We are woefully outteched and the military build-up in the islands is going slowly. Any ideas on how we can win this thing? What strategy can we pursue? It looks like our best bet is going to be Chemistry & Steel?

1. Agreed. Chasing DR + Versailles will use beakers and hammers that are more urgently needed elsewhere because...

2. Mansa also has Nationalism. Moreover, the AI are all pretty good buddies with one another, so you can expect it to be traded further before long. (Regarding dot's idea of attacking the least popular civ, I would guess that to be Mao, who is also the weakest.)

3. We are 33 (25)* turns away from Astronomy and four techs away from Chemistry (Engineering 12 (9)*; Guilds 12 (9)*; Gunpowder 20 (15)*; Chemistry 30 (23)*). Everybody else has at least Engineering and Guilds already, and I cannot see any opportunities for trading

In my opinion, regardless of whether we have access to Iron there, we should prioritise building up our defenses in the Islands. At the moment, Edo and Tokyo have 1 warrior each (with a cat on the way); Kyoto has two warriors. Bearing in mind that the AI will reach Astro before we do, this level of defense is an open invitation for an attack, especially since the AI is set to "aggressive".

* If we increase science to 70%

 

[Codeman]

when i chose DR i debated on that or astronomy. i thought versailles to be helpful, forgetting we will take it from whoever has it anyway. i should have gone for probably astronomy. another poor choice on my part. sorry team.

 

[GreyFox]

Its ok, not too late to change course. Let's switch to Astro, and yes, we must build up our defenses now that astronomy is within reach. fortunately, that shouldn't be a big problem since we can whip. With Astro 1 round away, I think we weren't be realizing our plan of whipping up an army to take Hatty, but we sure as hell can whip a navy to protect our resources. Let's do that, and concentrate on building an army in Osaka land.

 

[dot]

Thank you, armstrong, for being a bit more structured.

I won't take it. So take your 26ish hours. That's just fine with me. It will leave some time for discussion.

I'm still working on my thoughts, but I won't be able to post them soon. I'll see to it, that they'll be posted within the next 24 hours. But if the team decides on playing ahead - do so. Sorry for the delay, folks. Real life is still biting me ... due to the new job.

What do you think on letting the game rest until the weekend to have time for discussion?

Sending you kind regards from germany, .

 

[armstrong]

I was going to play, but then I saw dot's comments and I also had something else I wanted to discuss... so unless you all really want me to just go ahead (I'll be able to play for the next 4 hours or so) I'll just wait so we have time to discuss.

One issue I'd like to bring up - what are we going to do with the GS? We can use a GS to research Chemistry once we unlock it, but after that they prefer the Paper, Education, Printing Press route before Astronomy. We have a 92%+ chance of getting a scientist in Edo in 20 turns, so that should be enough time for Chemistry, so there's no real need to keep this scientist on ice.

We could either merge the scientist (+1 hammer would be useful, +11 beakers is nice too) or build an academy (better immediately, but not as useful once we stop hiring specialists in Kyoto and start whipping it as quickly as possible.)

 

[dot]

Hey everyone - I'm busy right now and won't be able to play until tomorrow night (probably 26ish hours from now.) So go ahead and skip me if someone else wants to play. Otherwise, I'll play tomorrow.

The short story of what I had planned on posting about:

1. I don't see Divine Right being useful to us. Where could we put Versailles that would save more than 2-3 gpt? We already have two central centers of government.

2. HC already has Nationalism. Did he get Liberalism? He'll have rifles soon.

3. We are woefully outteched and the military build-up in the islands is going slowly. Any ideas on how we can win this thing? What strategy can we pursue? It looks like our best bet is going to be Chemistry & Steel?

On 1.: Fine with me with DR. If we pop a Great Prophet in Barcelona (3 priests, currently) use him for that. But a third political center would help on Osaka continent. I've had that twice and it comes close to being organised, iirc.

On 2.: Yep, HC and Mansa do have Nationalism ( @ Scowler). AFAWK Liberalism hasn't been researched yet. I don't know if going straight for astronomy is better. It's certainly safer but ... See my plan below.

On 3.: Well my thoughts look like that:

The following is the

Spoiler the current situation (part I) :

1. Cities & Domestic Advisor:
   The following spoiler contain screenies of six of our cities. Please notice that we are quite big on food production in most of them.
   
   Spoiler city screenies :

   
   

   
   Kyoto
   

   

   
   
   Tokyo
   

   

   
   
   Edo
   

   

   
   
   Osaka
   

   

   
   
   Barcelona
   

   

   
   
   Madrid
   

   

   
   ​
   And here comes the domestic advisor. He is telling us the following:
   
   
   
   
2. Finance:
   
   
3. Civics:
   
   

 

[dot]

And this is the

Spoiler the current situation (part II) :

1. Our Foreign Advisor: tells us something about politics, resources, and techs:
   1. Now, what do politics look like nowadays?
      Due to six screenies I simply had to put another spoiler in here. It is the
      
      Spoiler the attitudes among the nations :

      
      Us - 1 annoyed, 3 cautious, 2 pleased (Mansa and Biz)
      

      

      
      
      Biz - 1 cautious, 2 pleased, 2 friendly
      

      

      
      
      Mao - 1 cautious, 1 pleased, 3 friendly
      

      

      
      
      HC - 2 pleased, 3 friendly
      

      

      
      
      Hatty - 1 annoyed, 1 cautious, 3 pleased
      

      

      
      
      Mansa - 1 cautious, 3 pleased, 1 friendly
      

      

      
      
      Kublai - 1 annoyed, 4 pleased
      

      

      
      ​
      Please notice that most of them are rather pleased if not friendly with each other!
   2. And what resources are available. And who'd be willing to trade:
      
      
   3. The same thing can be asked techwise:
      
      
2. Our Military Advisor tells us the following:
   
   
3. Science rate and technologies:
   
   Spoiler science rate :

   
   

   
   100% science
   

   

   
   
   60% science
   

   

   
   
   40% science
   

   

   
   
   0% science
   

   

   
   ​
   Spoiler techs :

   
   

   
   
   

   3. We are 33 (25)* turns away from Astronomy and four techs away from Chemistry (Engineering 12 (9)*; Guilds 12 (9)*; Gunpowder 20 (15)*; Chemistry 30 (23)*). Everybody else has at least Engineering and Guilds already, and I cannot see any opportunities for trading.
   
   * If we increase science to 70%

   Increasing science to 70 % will still leave us with a little minus gpt-wise, though.
   

...

 

[dot]

OK and here is the plan ...

1. Food surplus and civics:
   With all these food resources and the possibility to change civis to caste system and pacifism why not build a whole bunch of great persons and either catch up with them techwise or trigger one or the other golden age. ?
2. Science and Taxes:
   I'd try to get some money. This could be used for upgrading units later. But still go for science with a slight "+" gpt-wise.
3. Military:
   I'd also go for the military build up on the Osaka continent. I'd say take care of some defence in the islands.
   But then I'd say build a few horse based units to defend our continent. I usually like to have about a dozen of cavalaries (we might need more on this huge continent). I usually build whatever horse based units are available and upgrade them later. Sure, I agree we'll need abt a dozen of frigates to defend our marine ressources. But if an AI tries to land some troops on the continent they'll have quite some revelation when they face a dozen of cavalarists with one or the other cannon mixed in.
   Sadly enough they won't be able to bring the news back home .
   And then there is the actual force for invading ... But I'd also build them on the continent. Go for barracks all over the land, queue the units in every city, revolt to theocracy and feudalism and a state religion that is spread everywhere and churn them out.
4. Techs:
   Sure, try to go chemistry and steel. That is a must since we need to conquer. But astronomy would be the ultimate must if we decide to move our troops from the continent. Maybe we can use one or the other GP on it - I know I repeat myself.
5. Now, whom to attack?
   I don't know. I don't think that it really matters. They'll bite us anyways. But we might want to try and keep Mansa and especially Biz happy with us for some more time.

This is just a briefing on my thoughts, but I've got a visitor so I hope you still enjoy them.

There you go. I know it's quite a big post but I hope you take some time to reply to it.

Regards, .