SGOTM 03 - Geezers
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
perhaps we should consider a backdoor diplo victorythe downside to that being that warfare on archipelago maps is generally a strategic, logistical, and tactical nightmare.
... and the very fact of doing all that warring could damage our science so we'll end up with enough population but unable to build the UN at any reasonable date
(The thought had occurred to me too)
Htadus
A and L's dad
Hi each and all.
Just for introductions sake, I am new to Civ4. So I will be doing alot of listening untill I feel my way around. I am located in California and have been dreading moving from Civ3 to 4. Too bad because C4 is turning out to be a truely dynamic game.
@ Dynamic....
Having played some of the Civ3 nightmares Gythaar has put forth, I would not be surprised that the Diplo game is not easily done. We will have to play a very cunning game or just research like a bat out of hell to get to space.
Just for introductions sake, I am new to Civ4. So I will be doing alot of listening untill I feel my way around. I am located in California and have been dreading moving from Civ3 to 4. Too bad because C4 is turning out to be a truely dynamic game.
@ Dynamic....
Having played some of the Civ3 nightmares Gythaar has put forth, I would not be surprised that the Diplo game is not easily done. We will have to play a very cunning game or just research like a bat out of hell to get to space.
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
welcome Htadus, looking forward to us keeping all 6 players this time 
Gyathaar updated the screenshot to include the blue circles...for whatever that's worth, the place where the settler starts has one and the plains square 1E of our scout has one.
Interestingly, that location puts it just out of reach of every resource we can see, loses 1 of the FP, and gains 2 forests and a jungle, from what we can tell. This tells us our instincts to explore over there with our scout before settling is a good one though. Sending our scout to that wooded hill should give us all the information we need about where to settle.
I managed to finish GOTM12 last night, finally got another win to submit, after having to retire the last few that I was close to a win in for lack of time
Hopefully this means I'll have time to run a test game for this setup tonight.
Regarding the difficulty of a diplo win, if we've got enough resources and there's a single dominant religion it shouldn't be too hard...we just have figure out what religion is most widespread, and then do our best to spread it around ourselves, even if we didn't found it.
Gyathaar updated the screenshot to include the blue circles...for whatever that's worth, the place where the settler starts has one and the plains square 1E of our scout has one.
Interestingly, that location puts it just out of reach of every resource we can see, loses 1 of the FP, and gains 2 forests and a jungle, from what we can tell. This tells us our instincts to explore over there with our scout before settling is a good one though. Sending our scout to that wooded hill should give us all the information we need about where to settle.
I managed to finish GOTM12 last night, finally got another win to submit, after having to retire the last few that I was close to a win in for lack of time
Hopefully this means I'll have time to run a test game for this setup tonight.
Regarding the difficulty of a diplo win, if we've got enough resources and there's a single dominant religion it shouldn't be too hard...we just have figure out what religion is most widespread, and then do our best to spread it around ourselves, even if we didn't found it.
Well I guess you've chosen a good way to learn about Civ4
Welcome! FWIW I got Civ4 about a year ago. I've been playing GOTMs regularly since March, but this is my first experience of an SGOTM and being part of a team.(btw there's someone else in one of the other teams called Dynamic; because of that, I try to discourage people from abbreviating my name to 'Dynamic')
Diplo does take a lot of skill. However, one good thing is that until you get well into the AD years, the strategies for spaceship and diplo are pretty much identical: In both cases you need to research as fast as possible. The additional requirement for diplo is that it's a good idea to get to build the UN yourself, and you need to get enough votes (I think you need votes representing about 62% of the population to win). You can get that yourself by conquering, but if you do that you'll slow down your research - that puts us at high risk of being beaten to the laurels by a team that focuses on their research more. Or you can do less conquering but make sure sufficient other civs like you enough to vote for you - that means keeping some friends. It also means trying to manipulate things so that whoever the 2nd biggest civ is is unpopular, so noone votes for him.
The vast number of civs in the game does put an interesting slant on it. It means that we're going to be facing a lot of very small and weak opponents. From the POV of warmongering that's good - after we've 'absorbed' one or two neighbours, we'll probably be able to destroy at will almost anyone we choose (and no prolonged wars causing war-weariness). But from a science side that's bad, as it makes it likely that the AIs will get quite backward: There just won't be enough space for any of them to reach the optimal size for research - and normally in Civ4, trading techs with your friends is a good way to keep your own science running fast. Of course that problem is going to hit all the teams, not just us. It does occur to me though that there may be some advantage later on in going to war on behalf of other civs - selectively removing civs that don't like us, even ones on the other side of the world - specifically so that civs that do like us can take their land, so they can become more powerful, so we get reasonably advanced trading partners.
Not something we need to think about for a while yet, but just a thought for the future
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
The bonus for 'mutual war' is another advantage of this ploy.
As far as religion goes it's definitely worth waiting to see which civs adopt which religion. We just need to be careful about the late religions. I can remember being caught by my ally switching to a late religion that they had founded. On the science front it would be nice if we can find a nice spot to found a GP farm. SGOTM01 showed the value of Hanging Gardens for Great Engineers (thanks trippstowe
). It also showed that one GE is not quite enough to build the UN in an epic game.Welcome Htadus glad to have you on the team. Your entrance also solidifies my hold on the team "Noobie" award ( presented it to myself) It looks like we have a cross section of time zones. UK, East Coast US, West Coast US. So when do I sleep when the drama begins?
Where were the blue circles added? I didn't see them at the start of our thread. I managed to play 2 test games last night to about 100BC. I under estimated the aggresiveness of the AIs (especially Monty). I was declared war on before I could solidify a third city and before I had horse or iron. (Jaquars make mincemeat of archers) Also Several AI had galleys out quickly (including Barbs)which played havoc with the nets. I didn't try for any early religions but teching seemed slow. The capital peaks at size 5 in the early going and because of the AI needed to whip troops most of the time. I think a barracks is crucial from the beginning. Another observation is the time to strike the AI is just after he sets a new city. Since we can't raze them it takes them with a minimal amount of force. Down side is no workers to take with a new city.
It looks like we have a cross section of time zones. UK, East Coast US, West Coast US. So when do I sleep when the drama begins? Where were the blue circles added? I didn't see them at the start of our thread. I managed to play 2 test games last night to about 100BC. I under estimated the aggresiveness of the AIs (especially Monty). I was declared war on before I could solidify a third city and before I had horse or iron. (Jaquars make mincemeat of archers) Also Several AI had galleys out quickly (including Barbs)which played havoc with the nets. I didn't try for any early religions but teching seemed slow. The capital peaks at size 5 in the early going and because of the AI needed to whip troops most of the time. I think a barracks is crucial from the beginning. Another observation is the time to strike the AI is just after he sets a new city. Since we can't raze them it takes them with a minimal amount of force. Down side is no workers to take with a new city.
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
See the maintenance thread.
As an aside I would suggest that you subscribe to it and keep up to date with the posts in it. It doesn't take too much time.The saves will be available in less than two days now, maybe we should come up with our play order soon?
I'm going to be on vacation between December 16th and December 30th, so will need skips during that time period, at least, that's the plan right now.
As far as who starts our game, I'm willing to if no one else wants to...the 1st and 2nd are Friday and Saturday this week and I've got plenty of time those days to take care of our opening.
I'm going to be on vacation between December 16th and December 30th, so will need skips during that time period, at least, that's the plan right now.
As far as who starts our game, I'm willing to if no one else wants to...the 1st and 2nd are Friday and Saturday this week and I've got plenty of time those days to take care of our opening.
Well, I just wanted to ask whether we have a volunteer for the first set. You answered my question right away.
My proposed roster would look like this :
Thrallia
Simon
Sam
Mark
Dagnabit
Htadus
Would this be ok ?
AlanH sent me a pm that he still has two unassigned vanilla players. Does anybody have any objection if we integrate another player ?
Do I take it the system is that each player plays a set number of turns (how many?) but pauses play and comes back to the group for discussion if some major strategic decision is called for or something really unexpected happens that needs a response?
Yes that's how it works usually. The first set is played a little longer, 30 to 40 turns as normally not much happens anyway. Then we can go 20 turns for the first set of each player and once everybody had a set we take 10 turns each. It is not a must that you take the whole set. If you feel like it is better to hand over the game earlier or maybe a little later it is ok, too. Depends on the situations in the game. However it would be nice if you hand the game over at an even turn.
It is not a must that you come back to ask when something important happens, but usually it is done like that as it is a team game and different players may offer different ways to handle the given situations. If you decide on your own you may have to live with the criticism or of course the praising of your genious handling of the game.
This is more or less a team internal thing. We did stop when important things happened in the first two games and I think it strengthens the team spirit.
Thanks Mark!
One more organizational thing just to make sure everybody knows.
We'll do a "24h got it and 48h to play" rule. At around christmas we may enlarge the playtime to 72 hours as usually time is a little more limited at that time. The player on duty will also get extra time if he stops and asks questions during his turnset, so please feel free to ask if you are unsure what to do. This will not shorten your playtime.
If you know you will have no time to play please ask for a skip or a swap in time. Please do not go missing in action. You will get most of the fun and learning out of a SG if it moves forward and discussion stays alive.
As a general note for all new players please check everything a little more carefully than you might do in your single player games. I usually play much more careless in my single player games. You have to play just 10 turns, so it is not much work.
And of course : Let's have some fun !
We'll do a "24h got it and 48h to play" rule. At around christmas we may enlarge the playtime to 72 hours as usually time is a little more limited at that time. The player on duty will also get extra time if he stops and asks questions during his turnset, so please feel free to ask if you are unsure what to do. This will not shorten your playtime.
If you know you will have no time to play please ask for a skip or a swap in time. Please do not go missing in action. You will get most of the fun and learning out of a SG if it moves forward and discussion stays alive.
As a general note for all new players please check everything a little more carefully than you might do in your single player games. I usually play much more careless in my single player games. You have to play just 10 turns, so it is not much work.
And of course : Let's have some fun !
Gyathaar is on record as saying about this SGOTM:
I'm wondering if that might give us clues about the map. What would you do if you were trying to make the map play differently in Vanilla and Warlords? Off the top of my head, I would:
Any others I haven't thought of?
Obviously all this may turn out to be completely wrong and useless. But it might give useful clues.
I'm wondering if that might give us clues about the map. What would you do if you were trying to make the map play differently in Vanilla and Warlords? Off the top of my head, I would:
- Put horses nearby (chariot and horse-archer abilities are significantly changed in warlords)
- Not put iron nearby (the change in chariots effects axemen more than swordsmen)
- Where a Civ has more than one leader, pick the leader who is most changed in traits (Washington, Napoleon, Frederick, Gandhi, Victoria, Genghis Khan. China could go either way). Although that also implies picking Catherine, not Peter for Russia, contrary to what Gyathaar actually did.
- Have lots of water (because of triremes) - as is the case.
- Be somewhat generous in placing of stone/marble, to encourage building of the three new wonders.
- Play a civ whose UU is changed in Warlords (yep, we have that).
- Give more land to at least some leaders that are imperialistic or expansive in warlords, so their quick settlers/workers have maximum impact. (Washington, China if Mao Zedong, Victoria, Genghis Khan, Julius Caesar)
Any others I haven't thought of?
Obviously all this may turn out to be completely wrong and useless. But it might give useful clues.
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