SGOTM 03 - Smurkz

[unkle]

I rather lose a turn with the scout than with the settler, so I moved the scout S, and look:

Spoiler :

Another spice!
Do we still want to move 2E?

EDIT: spices give one gold now, and another two gold and one food with plantation. That doesn't make the tile any better than an FP with a developed cottage, so I would still move 2E.

Never expected anything to be there... Good job on this one !!! As you I still prefer settling 2E, though.
I am again pushing for BW after fishing, because without whip, I fear we'll never make 3 WB fast enough... So Fishing->BW (then pottery), and Warrior (Fog bust),WB,WB,WB (whip asap on WB),Worker,Settler (chopped). Anyway something like that.

 

[Niklas]

Hmm, my bad, I thought those were incense and not spices . I agree with settling 2E, since a cottage would be preferable to a plantation anyway.

 

[CliftonBazaar]

2E is fine with me.

 

[Niklas]

One possibility is to move the settler E-NE this turn. That way if the scout finds anything interesting N-NE on the next turn we still have the choice, but can move S and settle if nothing changes.

 

[Methos]

Spoiler :

Another spice!
Do we still want to move 2E?

Does anyone know if we gain any bonuses by settling on a spice? I didn't know if we'd gain an extra or .

One possibility is to move the settler E-NE this turn. That way if the scout finds anything interesting N-NE on the next turn we still have the choice, but can move S and settle if nothing changes.

I like this idea.

 

[zyxy]

Turn 0, 4000BC: scout moves E and spots fishes. Save and discuss.
Second session: Considering that we are probably on a small island, I rather lose a turn with the scout than with the settler, so scout S. Interestingly enough, there is another spice resource on the tile 2E of the settler. So save again, and back to the discussion board.
Third session: move the settler 2E.

Turn 1, 3970BC: scout moves north and finds stone. Mozcow settled, it starts a warrior and we begin research on fishing.

Turn 2 - 8: nothing but scout moves. We find a source of rice, two gems, three more fishes, a cow. The starting island is bigger than I thought, and we seem to be close to the tropics.

Turn 9, 3730BC: Mozcows borders expand, and we are taught how to fish: we can now feed ourselves for a lifetime . I tentatively set research to BW. Our capital is very low on production and I am starting to lean towards whipping a worker or settler. I switch the capital to workboat, we'll probably need it more than the warrior. Our scout discovers more gems, and the culture expansion brings another stone in view.

I'll wait a bit for discussion, and continue later today or tomorrow. My plan would be to research BW, and after that Wheel -> Pottery. I think sailing can wait, because we have at least two or three good city spots on our own island. Monarchy is also nice to have and combines well with the expansive trait, but I think this can wait too.
Here are some dotmaps to discuss. Obviously things can still change as we uncover more land, and blue dot in particular is a blind guess.

Spoiler :

(EDIT: it is hard to see, but red dot also has clams).

 

[Methos]

Okay, unless I'm figuring this up wrong, we'll be at size 2 in three turns, size 3 nine turns after that (total of 12 turns), size 4 in nine more turns (total of 21 turns). If at size 3 and 4 we use the forested grass we should complete the WB in 26 turns. Even at max size I don't believe we're going to be producing enough to go very quickly with this game. I'm beginning to agree with unkle more, we're going to need that .

Alternative, what if we move red dot to 1W of the stone for a production city? Here's a pic:

With a border expansion and both the clams and rice improved, there'll be enough food to support working (all improved) the grass hill, plains hill, the stone, and the gems. I realize this would overlap with our capitol.

Edit: The gems are in the jungle, so we wouldn't be able to improve them until after IW.

 

[unkle]

With a border expansion and both the clams and rice improved, there'll be enough food to support working (all improved) the grass hill, plains hill, the stone, and the gems. I realize this would overlap with our capitol.

Edit: The gems are in the jungle, so we wouldn't be able to improve them until after IW.

Whipping will be a must here as usually on sea maps.

I tend to not like cities who are not coastal since I would love to get the sea wonders... I like zyxy second dot map. No time to open the save so this is a quick answer. More probably tonight.

 

[CliftonBazaar]

I prefer Zyxy's first dot map; keep the cities nice and tight.
There are 17 opponents on this map and it's only standard size - so don't think you will get any more than 3-4 cities on this map.
I wouldn't be suprised if there is another civ next to us who will cut us off - I certainly wouldn't expect to put a city across the water (blue).
For this reason I would settle Green first BUT one square south so no other civ can get past us in order to settle, if they get past then there will be real problems.

James

 

[battchy]

I kinda like Methos' idea for a production city. If you place Red at that spot, you can 'shift' Yellow to the NW coast (jungle tile peninsula) to get the fish out there, the cow, and the gems in the corner.

I also like Clifton's idea for a move of Green, but I'd suggest putting it 1 SE of where the scout now stands. That way, Green will provide immediate gems for happiness along with creating a 'land bridge' through our continent for boats, along with one other gems (plus anything else urevealed). Yellow will have fish/gems/cows. Red will have gems/stone/clams/rice and mountains.

Sorry, I don't know how to do dot-maps. A mortal sin, I understand.

Cheers,
B

PS: I didn't check in time to opine, so I'm s.o.l. on that, I just want to say, with no venom involved, that I disagree with the move of Moscow given the new spice uncovered. For the gain of 1 FP&cottage we gave up 2 spices (including the one we settled on), one of which is on plains/forest, providing a nice 2 hammers and 1 gold (when combined w/ the clam tile at size 2 for +3 food/turn, 2 hammers, and 3 commerce). Not to mention the settler move turn and the health bonus of river. And we created 2 unusable land tiles that could have been forests inside our fat cross. I don't think it's a gamebreaker, but that's what I see. Thoughts?

 

[unkle]

PS: I didn't check in time to opine, so I'm s.o.l. on that, I just want to say, with no venom involved, that I disagree with the move of Moscow given the new spice uncovered. For the gain of 1 FP&cottage we gave up 2 spices (including the one we settled on), one of which is on plains/forest, providing a nice 2 hammers and 1 gold (when combined w/ the clam tile at size 2 for +3 food/turn, 2 hammers, and 3 commerce). Not to mention the settler move turn and the health bonus of river. And we created 2 unusable land tiles that could have been forests inside our fat cross. I don't think it's a gamebreaker, but that's what I see. Thoughts?

Hum since I started it: Spices won't mean much before calendar. By that time the 3F cottaged FP will be lovely. I agree though that a 1F2H1G was cool. Tough call, I prefer Fish+Food plain to Clam+Spice.

Methos production city is ok for me. How much are Gems, btw ? 1F1H6C on grassland ?
I need to learn dotmapping->new proposal tomorrow

 

[zyxy]

Fourth session:

Turn 9, 3730BC (cont'd): it seems we agree on BW, so I go on.

Turn 10 and 11: scout moves.

Turn 12, 3640BC: Mozcow is now size 2, and works two FP's. If we whip, then 1 food is worth more than 1 hammer, so I would rather work the FP than the forest.

Turn 13, 3610BC: Buddhism has been founded (but not by us ).

Turn 14, 4000BC: there is another continent to our west. This almost looks like snaky continents, I thought it would be archipelago?

Turn 15, 3550BC: our scout spots something hiding in the forest:

Spoiler :

Turn 16, 3520BC: we meet Alex, across the water. Nice little doggie!

Spoiler :

Our scouts boldly move towards the beasts:

Spoiler :

Turn 17, 3490BC: Our scout has won but is quite damaged. We reach the end of our island - we are alone .

Turn 19, 3430BC: scout is healing in a position where he can see one tile of the next island. Who knows, someone might pass by...

Turn 20, 3400BC: zzz

notes:
- Do we need to switch to the warrior build occasionally to preserve the hammers?
- The scout is healing.
- Mozcow will grow next turn.
- I think whipping a WB asap will pay off in extra growth.

The save.

 

[zyxy]

Dotmapping is rather difficult, because we are very constricted by the terrain. Here is my attempt:

Spoiler :

• In hindsight, I think battchy is right and we should have settled in place. It looks much easier to dotmap from that start.
• I think our capital will be a commerce town (and perhaps a GP farm as well), red dot military, green and pink commerce. Blue will be commerce, but slow growing. Yellow is just a guess, and might be production with those hills.
• We can only ever irrigate the eastern part of our continent, up to the gems hill in the north. The western half will always be short on food, and in particular blue dot will suffer from this.
• None of these towns will be really an asset until we have some workers out, and quite a few techs as well. We need Pottery for cottaging FP's, IW for clearing jungle, agri for the rice, AH for the cow. Red Dot would be marginally useful until we clear the rice - at least we could chop some forests for boats and workers and settlers. I don't think we really need to hurry, btw - even if the AI manage to settle our island, we can probably kick them off quite easily.
• I prefer red dot here rather than Methos location because it has the rice in the first 9 tiles, it is coastal (lighthouse), and has less overlap with Mozcow. Methos' choice has the obvious advantage of grabbing the gems, but that is more suitable for a commerce town than a production town IMO.

 

[CliftonBazaar]

There's a lot of Jungle there.

2 WB's from Moscow will allow us to whip a lot. As for the Dot mapping, with the knowledge we have I'm happy with Zyxy's map now.

I would keep the scout where the red dot is - this way no Barbs can start too close to Moscow, this would give us about 10 turns to whip up a defence if one does appear.

 

[unkle]

Agreed for Scout position as a fogbuster.
As for dotmaps, I think waiting for BW and AH could change stuff. Commerce seems ok (Gems, seas,...) production more difficult.

Whos is next btw ?

 

[Niklas]

Nice start zyxy!

Whos is next btw ?

Sorry, me ain't a good captain these days.

Roster, in roughly sign-in order:

• zyxy - Just Played
• Marc Aurel - UP!
• Niklas - On Deck!
• unkle - Warming up
• Methos
• battchy
• Cliftonbazaar

@MA: Go go go!

 

[Methos]

According to the SGOTM page team Footballguys is already at 155 AD!

 

[CliftonBazaar]

Well, team Isamu just finished SGOTM2 - and we won by DIPLOMACY!!
We know it wasn't in the rules but it was 1980 and we had 3 more civs to kill - which were more powerful than us.
The real problem was that when we declared on one another would back stab us - we couldn't fight on 2 fronts

 

[Niklas]

Congratulations Clifton! And as the old Swedish saying goes, all ways are good except the bad ones!

 

[Marc Aurel]

@Niklas: Well, I thought you wanted to play on Monday and you have checked in before me. But OK, so I 've got it.