SGOTM 03 - Team One

TDK · Feb 4, 2007

Mdy, I can try to play around with worldbuilder and try to discover what triggers the tech modifier.

I get +6 with Isabella in free religion. We have +11 -2 for Agg. AI, -1 for Isabella being a *****, -1 for rank difference, -1 for Monarch.

If you feel you have enough troops to finish Monte, we could divert some ships and new troops to attack the barbarian kingdom in the north.

TDK

mdy · Feb 4, 2007

I get +6 with Isabella in free religion

Your right. I forgot the -1 for monarch difficulty. The revised relations are:

Huyana Capec: +6
Julius Caesar: +5
Mansa Musa: +11
Cyrus: +12
Kublai Kahn: +2, will rise to +3 due to resource deals.
Gandi: +10
Saladin: +12
Izzy: +6, will rise to +9 due to open borders/ resource deal
Fredrick: +8

If we are in Buddism our relations are:

Huyana Capec: +9
Julius Caesar: +3
Mansa Musa: +13
Cyrus: +13
Kublai Kahn: +1 will rise to +2 doe to resource deals.
Gandi: +10
Saladin: +14
Izzy: +2, will rise to +5 due to open borders/resource deal.
Fredrick: +10

If you feel you have enough troops to finish Monte, we could divert some ships and new troops to attack the barbarian kingdom in the north

We probably have the troops for actually attacking his cities, what we lack are the units to protect our stack in the field, but we could attack the barbarian kingdom once they arrived.

Mdy, I can try to play around with worldbuilder and try to discover what triggers the tech modifier.

This would be very helpful. Also is the minimum you nedd to get the vote +7 or +8? This would have a big impact on our strategy.

TDK · Feb 4, 2007

I have done a few tests on gifting techs, it seems there is a difference from leader to leader as to how many techs are required for getting the +1. Caesar and Huyana seems expensive, Kublai is pretty cheap. I will try to do more tests.

From Ori's post it seems we need +8 to get the vote.

My numbers differ slightly from yours for the following leaders:
Julius: +6
Huyana: +7
Cyrus: +11
Kublai: +1
Saladin: +11

TDK

mdy · Feb 5, 2007

My numbers differ slightly from yours

We need to sort this out. How are you doing your calculation? For Caesar I get +7 for visible modifiers, which will rise to +9 under no state religion. We have -2 from agressive AI, -1 from monarch difficulty, and -1 from iworserank. This gives us +5.

TDK · Feb 5, 2007

We don't get a -1 for worse rank from Caesar. Caesar would be something like 4/19*-1. The same for Huyana. Only Isabella is low enough on the rankings to go below -0.5, which would then be rounded to -1. I know it works this way because Caesar at one point was pleased when he should have been cautious had rounding worked in any other way.
As to the other 3 leaders I have no idea what causes our different outcomes(I don't have acces to the game). I simply count the modifiers(excluding religion), deduct 3(for aggressive AI and Monarch) and add +1 for Cyrus' base modifier.

TDK

mdy · Feb 5, 2007

The discrepancy in Cyrus modifier is due to a typo by me. The others are explained by what TDK mentioned.

The best way to proceed in the next turnset seems to be:

Gift tech`s to Huyana to try and get the you have shared your discoveries with us bonus. It would also be an idea to try the same with Rome- It would give us their vote if they made a request or got into war with one of our enemies.

Continue taking Monty`s cities as soon as reinforcements arrive and our units have healed.

Continue maximising population growth everywhere except the production centres.

We may as well switch out of buddism immediatly.

I can play tomorrow evening.

hamfist · Feb 5, 2007

Hi Team,

Work has been very crazy. Life has been even crazier. I think I will have to bow out for the rest of the game at this point. Sorry

I will try and keep tabs on all this, but you are all moving much faster than I can take this all in. Perhaps things will have slowed back down a bit once SGOTM IV starts.

Since it is possible that I won't post anymore on this thread, I just wanted to express how much I've enjoyed playing with such a classy group. You are all very good players and I hope to play more with you all soon.

Regards,

hamfist

mdy · Feb 6, 2007

T0:
Liberalism to Caesar for 560 gold.
Get a gift of 70 gold from Fredrick.
Get a gift of 290 gold from Isabella.
Convert to no state religion.

T1:
Scientific Mtehod to Caesar for 30 gold.

T2:
Gift physics to Caesar.

T3:
Washington asks for music in exchange for 10 gold. We decline.
We discover mass media.
Gift electricity to caesar- we now have the you have shared your technological discoveries bonus with him.
Physics to H.C. for 530 gold + world map.
Scientific Method to Saladin in echange for gunpowder, 80 gold and world map.

T4:
GE born in St Pete-used to hurry the UN in Moscow.
Gift electricity to H.C.
Ivory to H.C. in exchange for 2gpt.

T5:
Gift radio to H.C.

T6:
Victoria offers economics for liberalism and 680 gold. We decline.

T7:
Mansa Musa asks for electricity in exchange for democracy and 210 gold. We accept.
Monty`s caravel kills our galleon defending the fish near Corinth.

T8:
We discover chemistry.

T9:
Victoria asks us to convert to confunicism. We refuse.
We take Calixtahuaca killing 3 longbows, but losing 1 trebuchet. As I noticed a large aztec stack of doom in striking distance of the city I only left one mace in the city in the hope they would retake it and park their stack in the city.
We killed the Aztec caravel near Corinth.

T10:
Aztects retake Calixtaca killing one maceman.
We retake Calixtaca killing 3 war elephants, 1 maceman, 1 pikeman, 2 catapults, 2 trebuchets, but lose 1 mace, and 1 trebuchet taking the city.
A great general is born in St Pete, what should we do with him?

I did some scouting of the Aztec cities and it seems like we have destroyed the only effective offensive army they had. The rest of their cities could probably be taken relativly quickly with the units on the island, so we could divert the reinforcements to take the barbarian kingdom to the north ( one of their cities is defended by axeman). Alternativly we could use them to attack our next victim, but who should this be?

We still don`t have the shared technologies bonus with H.C. hopefully gifting him biology will do the trick. If it dosn`t we should probably research a high value tech which he is unlikly to get first next. Maybe computers?

Their are several items in the build queue for the ex aztec capital I whipped to get rid of starving population.

amh52 · Feb 7, 2007

Well played mdy. It looks like we should be able to finish off the Aztecs in the next turn set.

We could go after the barbarians next. It will help some. But most likely we will need to target someone else soon. Nevertheless I would suggest that we wait until the first vote before starting another war to see where we stand.

Our first option would be to finish off Mao. Victoria seems isolated and would also be an option although we might still pick up some negative modifiers. If we need a bigger chunk of land we could go after Louis and/or Toku. That might upset Ceasar and Gandhi though. It would be good if we could have them declare on us.

Should we research Computers after Biology? That sounds fine to me.

amh52 · Feb 7, 2007

mboza, you are next. Will you be able to play?

mdy · Feb 8, 2007

It looks like we should be able to finish off the Aztecs in the next turn set.

This may be a little optimistic. The aztects have 4 cities left including the one we took from Germany. If the RNG is with us we might be able to take the 3 mainland cities next turnset, but more likly we will need two. We should keep a couple of galleons in the area to take our troops to Essen quickly.

Our first option would be to finish off Mao. Victoria seems isolated and would also be an option although we might still pick up some negative modifiers. If we need a bigger chunk of land we could go after Louis and/or Toku. That might upset Ceasar and Gandhi though. It would be good if we could have them declare on us.

Unfortunatly there is no one we can attack without getting negative modifiers which we can`t afford from someone whose vote we are trying to get. So I would definatly take the barb cities next (The full galleon on it`s way to the Aztec island can probably be diverted which should be enough to take the first city.) Our power graph is now so high it is unlikly that anyone will declare war on us.

Other than that the best thing we could do seems to be to maximise the growth in our own cities and build a few more to boost our pop in the gaps. Hopefully this will be just about enough to win.

If happiness starts limiting our growth maybe it would be beneficial to start using the culture slider?

mboza · Feb 8, 2007

Yes, I will take a look at the save and post a plan this evening, and play friday night/saturday.

Plan will be to finish off the Aztecs, see how the first vote goes, and set up an attack on the barbs, or someone else?

And on an entirely different note, anyone interested in the hell that will be the next SGOTM, requiring a Viking space race loss to a permanent war India?

mboza · Feb 8, 2007

Ok

Aztecs - plenty of troops to march on the last four cities. Taking all three on the continent in 10 turns is probably optimistic, as I think the limiting factor is the shortage of naval transport forcing most of them to walk.

The galleon on route will head past Essen, might be able to sneak it with knights, next galleon will head for the barbs.

Research - finish biology in 7 turns, gift to HC for hopefully shared tech? then computers? Mil Trad would give us cossacks, but we can trade for it with Mansa, and I am not sure how useful cossacks would actually be at the moment.

Civics - we have theocracy with no religion, we can trade or research economics for free markets. Do we want to change either of these, or is the shared civic going to be vital for the votes?

All the greek cities are building longbows, just let them complete and focus on growth options?

What actually was done to Tenochtitlan? Do you just add something to the build queue and whip, then add something else to the start and whip again? It has 3 pop, all unhappy, so I guess one will starve, the theatre will complete, and then we will have a happy person to work the corn and feed his fellow citizens next turn. Once the aztec city to the north falls, Teno will get its trade routes back, and be happy once more.

Any suggestions for our great general? Another instructor in StP?

mdy · Feb 9, 2007

Civics - we have theocracy with no religion, we can trade or research economics for free markets. Do we want to change either of these, or is the shared civic going to be vital for the votes?

Theocracy is essential for Isabellas vote. Free market would give us a boost in our economy, but is it worth 1 turn of anarchy?

All the greek cities are building longbows, just let them complete and focus on growth options?

I would do so.

What actually was done to Tenochtitlan? Do you just add something to the build queue and whip, then add something else to the start and whip again? It has 3 pop, all unhappy, so I guess one will starve, the theatre will complete, and then we will have a happy person to work the corn and feed his fellow citizens next turn. Once the aztec city to the north falls, Teno will get its trade routes back, and be happy once more.

Yes, all the citizens were unhappy when Tenochitlan came out of resistance, this way the wasted citizens were kept to a minimum.

Any suggestions for our great general? Another instructor in StP?

This would not give our units any extra promotions. Maybe an instructor/military academy in our other production city?

And on an entirely different note, anyone interested in the hell that will be the next SGOTM, requiring a Viking space race loss to a permanent war India?

That sound interesting, I will probably sign up for it.

mboza · Feb 10, 2007

Ok, here we go.

turn 1 1448 Victoria offers open borders, refused, Saladin offers economics + 40 gold for chem, accepted, MM adopts free religion
sink aztec caravel, move stack into Calix to heal

Tlatelolco has a mace, 2 longbows, 2 jaguars, Teo has 2 longbows, jag, pike and axe, two pike guarding settler, crossbow guarding mine

turn 2 1454 construct mil academy in Rostov, Rostov builds knight, starts grenadier, wait for stack to heal,

turn 3 1460 start broadcast tower in Teno

turn 4 1466 start market in Bejing,

Texcoco has 2 longbows, 1 pike

turn 5 1472 land at Essen, one longbow, one crossbow defending, bombard Teo

Texcoco has 5 longbows, 3 pikes!

turn 6 1478 start broadcast tower in Athens, market in argos, remove artists in Athens to grow unhappy people. Capture Essen, returned it to Germany in case that gave us a bonus. I was not expecting the question to return it or keep it. Take Teo, lost one treb, and a mace at 96%. Monty has started defending with muskets, so I think an upgrade to grenadiers is in order for a couple of maces

turn 7 1484 discover biology, start computing

turn 8 1492 lose treb and 96% knight outside Tlateloco

turn 9 1498 lose 99.1% knight attacking two longbows in the open.

turn 10 1506 take barb city, move up to Texcoco.

I think the reason we cannot get the shared advanced tech bonus with HC is because he is more advanced than us.

We need to trade for cash, or drop the tech rate substantially.

mboza · Feb 10, 2007

turn log:

Spoiler :

mdy · Feb 11, 2007

Texocco is on a hill so the stack outside it might not be powerful enough to take it so I would upgrade the maces currently outside the aztects cultural borders to grenadiers, and send them to help. We could get the gold needed by trading for it. One thing which could help our economy is to trade physics to Saladin in exchange for communism and switch to state property, which could save over 100 gpt. HC dosn`t have communism at the moment so we could trade it to him for gold to try and get the shared technologies bonus.

One tech we should definatly not get is corporation-it will obsolete the Great Lighthouse.

We seem to have a lot of unnecessary specialists at the moment. We should micromanage them to maximise growth. Once we wipe out the aztects war weariness will disappear and the AI will probably assign a lot of the new citizens as specialists, so we should take care to remove them. This should cause our population to increase dramaticly- hopefully enough to win

TDK · Feb 11, 2007

Mdy, we need Huyanas vote, any ideas? Can we afford a defensive pact with the inca? Would we then lose Caesar?

I see that after 20 turns of play we still haven't started producing anything in the aztec island city. We have simply wasted 20 turns of production when we could have been building a granary and lightshouse.

I see that we have not completed the UN. This is strange because when I completed my turnset we could have gotten it in 19 turns. We are now at turn 20 and we still have 6 turns to go. It is difficult to device a strategy when we dont know the number of votes for each civ so could we please build the UN as fast as possible?

We have a shitload of useless specialists assigned as mdy said. In Moscow, we have a scientist assigned when an engineer is clearly prefereble in terms of production and gp-chance. In Nanjing, we have an engineer when an artist is clearly helpfull in pushing back the chinese borders(culture bombing Nanjing would not be bad either). And so on...

TDK

mdy · Feb 11, 2007

I see that we have not completed the UN

I think this is because we have spent a few turns in anarchy and the computer substituted a scientist for the engineer.

Mdy, we need Huyanas vote, any ideas? Can we afford a defensive pact with the inca? Would we then lose Caesar?

According to the spreadsheet we need to be friendly with H.C. to get a defensive pact with him. An alternative way to get his vote would be to switch to Buddism. All the AI`s we are trying to get to vote for us are buddist except Gandi, J.C. and Isabella. We will get gandis vote anyway, according to the spreadsheet we should keep J.C.`s vote as well (though it may not be entirely accurate. If I have read it right the max civic bonus we should get with him is +3 but we have +4 now). The only doubtful one is Isabella, however if we delay switching to buddism till the turn AFTER the UN is built then we should have got another +1 for open borders with her. We can also gift a tech/sell for a small amount of gold to her every turn to get the shared tech bonus which should give us her vote anyway.

I would only switch to buddism after the UN is built as this will speed up our victory by one turn.

TDK · Feb 11, 2007

Should we sell biology to the civs we know we have in the bag?

What about signing defensive pacts with Julius and Isabella and convert to buddhism? I don't have access to the game but that would seem like a likely solution to our problem. We would still have Gandhi even with minus 2 and the buddhists would be ours also, right? What about Mansa, he is in free religion and if I'm not mistaken we have somehow picked up another negative with him, can we count on his vote if we take the -2 from defensive pacts?
Can we trade for military tradition? Is it just another +1 we need with Huyana to get to +8? Do we positively know that we will not immediately lose the "shared military struggle"-modifier when the aztecs are destroyed?

I won't have acces to the game until tomorrow at which time I can give more qualified input.

TDK

SGOTM 03 - Team One

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Warlord

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