SGOTM 03 - The Real Ms. Beyond

[LKendter]

I don't fear Alex after this first wave and Mao is too far away to be able to do anything too coordinated, but Rome will surely take Yaroslavl. To me, it's a question of how much of (and what type of) a fight do we put up there. I saw at least 5 roman galleys in my turns, so we'd need quite a force to hold him off the mainland after he takes Yaroslavl. So, do we bother building and leaving anything in Yaroslavl or do we whip a galley as soon as we can and let him take it from our warrior when he lands his praets? At least the galley could retreat and help the defense of the mainland by sea.

I say defend Yaroslavl to the death. I would start regular axes ASAP before barracks. Once we get a couple, then we can afford the barracks. At this point I feel conceding that city is conceding the game. We can't get fastest finish with the loss of that city.

A galley to defend the sea is worthless IMHO. Sea combat favors the defender,.

 

[Compromise]

I say defend Yaroslavl to the death. I would start regular axes ASAP before barracks. Once we get a couple, then we can afford the barracks. At this point I feel conceding that city is conceding the game. We can't get fastest finish with the loss of that city.

A galley to defend the sea is worthless IMHO. Sea combat favors the defender,.

I agree here. We can build axes in Yaroslavl' until we see troops, then whip the last one. If we are lucky, Caesar won't have his ducks in a row and will only send a single galley.

For sea battle, the AI's empty galleys will attack our galleys. If we can set it up so that we defend against only a single AI galley per turn, we might win a couple. We need to be able to retreat and heal afterwards though.

As for the roster, I don't think Kodii was necessarily stopping his turn, but he was offering that if someone feels particularly skilled at the military tactics this situation requires, that they could offer to play a few turns here.

Oh, and I think we should try to get Math by trade and then research Construction. We want catapults.

Edit: As for the luck issue, I think we certainly had bad luck with Alex and Mao deciding to attack us long ago. The Caesar declaration is probably a result of our weak power rating. The fact that Gandhi didn't found a religion for all of us to share here is also probably bad luck.

 

[grangerm]

If we are planning on defending Yaroslavl, does that mean we should swap to axes immediately or whip the forge, then produce axes with the modest forge bonus? I think if we aim to keep Yaroslavl, we need all axes, all the time from it.

 

[LKendter]

If we are planning on defending Yaroslavl, does that mean we should swap to axes immediately or whip the forge, then produce axes with the modest forge bonus? I think if we aim to keep Yaroslavl, we need all axes, all the time from it.

How many turns left on the forge. I haven't looked at the game recently.

 

[grangerm]

The last screenshot says 7 turns left, but that's at 9 hammers per turn I think. It should be whippable within a couple more turns, but should we save the whip for an ax the last turn before we need it?

BTW, Yaraslavl is stagnant at the moment, though we just hooked the crabs up. Of course they will be pillaged within a couple turns I would expect.

I would lean toward just producing axes. The forge bonus will be at most 2 hammers/turn. The forge won't decay for 50 turns, by which we will have repelled Caesar or lost the city entirely.

 

[LKendter]

I would lean toward just producing axes. The forge bonus will be at most 2 hammers/turn. The forge won't decay for 50 turns, by which we will have repelled Caesar or lost the city entirely.

I agree with the logic, and see just axes. The only question is a barracks first wanted / needed? I don't think that city has one.

 

[Compromise]

I doubt if the barracks will help enough. A barracks is about 2 axes. I think we've got to just produce axes manually by working max mines until the prats land, then we whip the last one and hope for the best.

 

[grangerm]

I doubt if the barracks will help enough.

Agree, better to have more axes than promoted ones.

 

[Kodii]

If you haven't seen it already, AlanH helped me get the save up. You can take a look here: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm3//The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG003_BC0010_01.Civ4SavedGame

Unless someone offers to take this for a few turns until we're stable (I personally am more experienced diplomatically than militaristically), I will continue tonight.

 

[LKendter]

I wil try to look at the game. We may be able to abuse the AI pathing.

 

[Compromise]

I think you'll do okay, Kodii. Edit: After LK looks at it at least.

Concentrate on generating troops. Try to use naval vessels in defense if the AI ships are empty, and block if they're full. If we last 10 turns, we might be able to use Literature as peace-bait, but money for upgrades will be useful.

I expect most of the troops to come from SE of Moscow. Mao's center must be over there somewhere if he blocked off Alex so effectively.

 

[LKendter]

Well I heard about the war one turn to late. Once the AI picks a landing zone it will try to get there even if there are troops. I was going to suggest putting 2 axes on the hill, but it is to late.

We should promote both axes to combat 1. We *don't* loose the fortify bonus, and it may make the differnce in suriving.

 

[Kodii]

Yea, I knew it wasn't a good idea to "play just one more turn". I'll get to it soon.

 

[Kodii]

We successfully defend Moscow, loosing only a single axeman. I whip the forge in Yaroslavl' and upgrade the axeman there. I think we can save Yaroslavl'. I spy yellow borders to the northeast.

Caesar has archers, spearmen, settlers, praetorians (make all those singular) marching around, but none are being sent by galleys. Mao has an archer/settler galley out. Perhaps he only declare war to get it by us...

Alex now has an archer/settler galley out too...

Caesar drops off a nasty looking stack of units: 2 chariots, an archer and a spearman. No praets? I have 2 axes on the way, so I may be able to take it back.

Sure enough, he takes Yaroslavl' at the cost of two chariots. I take it back the next turn without losing any axes.

We get contact with Isabella, as Buddhism spreads to Yaroslavl'.

We meet Louis XIV and Saladin (Hinduism spreads to Rostov)

I trade Pottery and Iron Working to Gandhi for Mathematics.

I make peace with Mao for 90 gold. Caesar will only make peace for Yaroslavl'.

Caesar makes peace for Hinduism.

Alex actually GIVES us Priesthood for peace... odd.

Archimedes is born and two turns later, we have the Great Library!

And so I end. I urgently have to go, so I'll get other things up later.

 

[Iainuki]

Yeah, tactics are probably the second-weakest part of my game (military logistics being the weakest), so I can't really offer much help here.

Everyone else has had good advice. My best advice is to build up cash to upgrade two warriors to axes (Moscow and Yaroslavl') and switch Yaroslavl' to military production ASAP. Consider two-pop whipping for galleys and/or axes in Rostov and St. Pete: survival is more important than the temporary hit to our science rate. Mix in a spear or two for Mao's war elephants. If you think Moscow is safe, try to move some troops to Yaroslavl'? With the warrior upgraded and two more units there, I think we should be able to hold the city. (Too bad we don't have walls!)

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Military tactics are actually one of the few things I'm good at in this game since all I played for the first three months after it was out were Handy's AW games. I can take it. If everyone would provide a "Do This Bugsy" list to cover all the other things I'll need to do, I'll see about shedding some Chinese and Roman blood. I will plan on playing tomorrow night.

Edit - Nevermind. Kodii hasn't posted the game yet.

 

[Kodii]

The save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm3/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG003_AD0260_01.Civ4SavedGame

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 10 BC to 260 AD:

Turn 166, 10 BC: The borders of Moscow have expanded!
Turn 166, 10 BC: Alexander's Swordsman (7.20) vs The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman (11.75)
Turn 166, 10 BC: Combat Odds: 4.1%
Turn 166, 10 BC: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 166, 10 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 166, 10 BC: (Plot Defense: +60%)
Turn 166, 10 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 166, 10 BC: (City Attack: -10%)
Turn 166, 10 BC: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 166, 10 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 166, 10 BC: Alexander's Swordsman is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 166, 10 BC: Alexander's Swordsman is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 166, 10 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 166, 10 BC: Alexander's Swordsman is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 166, 10 BC: Alexander's Swordsman is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 166, 10 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman has defeated Alexander's Swordsman!
Turn 166, 10 BC: Alexander's Axeman (6.00) vs The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman (9.25)
Turn 166, 10 BC: Combat Odds: 9.1%
Turn 166, 10 BC: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 166, 10 BC: (Plot Defense: +60%)
Turn 166, 10 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 166, 10 BC: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 166, 10 BC: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 166, 10 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 166, 10 BC: Alexander's Axeman is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 166, 10 BC: Alexander's Axeman is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 166, 10 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 166, 10 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 166, 10 BC: Alexander's Axeman is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 166, 10 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 166, 10 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 166, 10 BC: Alexander's Axeman is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 166, 10 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 16 (4/100HP)
Turn 166, 10 BC: Alexander's Axeman is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 166, 10 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman has defeated Alexander's Axeman!
Turn 166, 10 BC: Alexander's Axeman (6.00) vs The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman (8.50)
Turn 166, 10 BC: Combat Odds: 11.6%
Turn 166, 10 BC: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 166, 10 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 166, 10 BC: (Plot Defense: +60%)
Turn 166, 10 BC: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 166, 10 BC: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 166, 10 BC: Alexander's Axeman is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 166, 10 BC: Alexander's Axeman is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 166, 10 BC: Alexander's Axeman is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 166, 10 BC: Alexander's Axeman is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 166, 10 BC: Alexander's Axeman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 166, 10 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman has defeated Alexander's Axeman!

Turn 167, 5 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman (5.50) vs Alexander's Swordsman (5.21)
Turn 167, 5 AD: Combat Odds: 65.5%
Turn 167, 5 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 167, 5 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 167, 5 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 167, 5 AD: (Combat: -75%)
Turn 167, 5 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 167, 5 AD: Alexander's Swordsman is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 167, 5 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 167, 5 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 167, 5 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 167, 5 AD: Alexander's Swordsman is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 167, 5 AD: Alexander's Swordsman is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 167, 5 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 167, 5 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 167, 5 AD: Alexander's Swordsman is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 167, 5 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 167, 5 AD: Alexander's Swordsman has defeated The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman!
Turn 167, 5 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman (4.95) vs Alexander's Swordsman (1.32)
Turn 167, 5 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 167, 5 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 167, 5 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 167, 5 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 167, 5 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 167, 5 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 167, 5 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 17 (73/100HP)
Turn 167, 5 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 17 (56/100HP)
Turn 167, 5 AD: Alexander's Swordsman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 167, 5 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman has defeated Alexander's Swordsman!

Turn 171, 65 AD: You have discovered Literature!
Turn 171, 65 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot (4.40) vs The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman (6.75)
Turn 171, 65 AD: Combat Odds: 9.2%
Turn 171, 65 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 171, 65 AD: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 171, 65 AD: (Fortify: +15%)
Turn 171, 65 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 171, 65 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 171, 65 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 171, 65 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 171, 65 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 171, 65 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 171, 65 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 171, 65 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman has defeated Julius Caesar's Chariot!
Turn 171, 65 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot (4.00) vs The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman (4.59)
Turn 171, 65 AD: Combat Odds: 41.4%
Turn 171, 65 AD: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 171, 65 AD: (Fortify: +15%)
Turn 171, 65 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 171, 65 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 171, 65 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 171, 65 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 171, 65 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 171, 65 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 171, 65 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 171, 65 AD: Julius Caesar's Chariot is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 171, 65 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman has defeated Julius Caesar's Chariot!
Turn 171, 65 AD: Julius Caesar's Spearman (4.40) vs The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman (1.85)
Turn 171, 65 AD: Combat Odds: 99.0%
Turn 171, 65 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 171, 65 AD: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 171, 65 AD: (Fortify: +15%)
Turn 171, 65 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 171, 65 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 17 (3/100HP)
Turn 171, 65 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
Turn 171, 65 AD: Julius Caesar's Spearman has defeated The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman!
Turn 171, 65 AD: Yaroslavl' has been captured by the Roman Empire!!!

Turn 173, 95 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman (5.50) vs Julius Caesar's Archer (4.50)
Turn 173, 95 AD: Combat Odds: 68.6%
Turn 173, 95 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 173, 95 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 173, 95 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 173, 95 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 173, 95 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 173, 95 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 173, 95 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 173, 95 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 173, 95 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 173, 95 AD: Julius Caesar's Archer is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 173, 95 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman has defeated Julius Caesar's Archer!
Turn 173, 95 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman (5.50) vs Julius Caesar's Spearman (2.85)
Turn 173, 95 AD: Combat Odds: 99.0%
Turn 173, 95 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 173, 95 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 173, 95 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 173, 95 AD: Julius Caesar's Spearman is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 173, 95 AD: Julius Caesar's Spearman is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 173, 95 AD: Julius Caesar's Spearman is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 173, 95 AD: Julius Caesar's Spearman is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 173, 95 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman has defeated Julius Caesar's Spearman!
Turn 173, 95 AD: You have captured Yaroslavl'!!!
Turn 173, 95 AD: The borders of Yaroslavl' have expanded!

Turn 174, 110 AD: Buddhism has spread in Yaroslavl'.

Turn 175, 125 AD: The borders of St. Petersburg have expanded!

Turn 176, 140 AD: You have constructed a Forge in St. Petersburg. Work has now begun on a Lighthouse.

Turn 178, 170 AD: Hinduism has spread in Rostov.

Turn 179, 185 AD: You have discovered Mathematics!
Turn 179, 185 AD: You have made peace with Mao Zedong!
Turn 179, 185 AD: You have trained a Spearman in Moscow. Work has now begun on a Axeman.
Turn 179, 185 AD: Homer has been born in a far away land!
Turn 179, 185 AD: Alexander adopts Organized Religion!

Turn 180, 200 AD: You have made peace with Julius Caesar!
Turn 180, 200 AD: Mo Tzu has been born in a far away land!
Turn 180, 200 AD: Alexander converts to Buddhism!

Turn 181, 215 AD: Archimedes has been born in Moscow!
Turn 181, 215 AD: Yaroslavl' has grown to size 2
Turn 181, 215 AD: Saladin's Golden Age has begun!!!

Turn 182, 230 AD: You have made peace with Alexander!
Turn 182, 230 AD: You have discovered Priesthood!
Turn 182, 230 AD: St. Petersburg has grown to size 7

Turn 183, 245 AD: The Real Ms. Beyond has completed The Great Library!
Turn 183, 245 AD: You have constructed The Great Library in St. Petersburg. Work has now begun on a Lighthouse.
Turn 183, 245 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Louis XIV

 

[LKendter]

Alex actually GIVES us Priesthood for peace... odd.

I don't think so. He is really small, lost a 4 four killing 1, and we build up. I suspect is now below us in military.

Detailed thoughts coming up shortly.

 

[LKendter]

I'll see about shedding some Chinese and Roman blood.

We are peaceful with the world again. I don't understand this comment.

 

[Kodii]

Lee, I continually editted in comments as I continued to play, so Bugsy said that before I wrote that I made peace with everyone.