SGOTM 04 - Geezers

Well done folks :goodjob: ! That landing could have been dicey, we seem to have come out of it fine. Haitha was a goner the moment he landed, at least we didn't lose El Do.

I took a look at the save... some thoughts:

Big, big picture:

good news: Ghandi is currently teching ahead of all known civs. Some day, when we turn over a nice set of well-developed commerce cities, he is gonna zoom.

bad news: All the other civs don't like Ghandi, and they like each other. I was hoping we could find some tension points between some of the other civs and get them warring with each other (to slow down their tech focus). Also, I am worried that a block will become best buddies and vote someone into a diplo win.

Big picture:

Long term plan is migration. Once we've migrated, our single goal will be survival. I have to think we will fall way behind on techs during the migration process. I believe world events will be beyond our ability to influence (we will be too small and too far behind on techs). A perfect situation would be to find some out of the way continent that we don't need to fight for.

Since we won't be able to influence world events, then we must make sure Ghandi is well situated to win on his own.

Medium picture:

Before we migrate, we need to settle our continent out and get the cities developed as commerce cities before we hand them over. I think we are in a race... with Hannibal and Kahn both established on the continent, they will want to quickly expand. Hannibal may be building a settler in Thapsus as we speak. If we don't grab the land first, we will have less to give to Ghandi. This means he will have less advantage in his race to space. An alternative may be to let Hannibal settle more, then take his cities, but it seems simpler to beat him to settling.

Tactical Picture:

I think we are done warring for a while. Only decision left is do we take Old Sarai from Kahn. I am leaning towards no, I seem to recall it was pretty heavily defended. Once we make peace with Kahn, we won't declare again until our migration. Given that, we only need units to defend... and we may have enough now. Long way of saying I think we can turn off unit building and focus on settlers and infrastucture. Our workers should be building cottages o're the land.

My priority for settlers:

1) Resettle gems city, same spot. Ghandi seems to be inclined to land there, so we need to keep a decent stack to repell all boarders.
1) (yes... 1) We need to quickly settle "pile-of-rubble-formerly-known-as-Karakorum". Because of the proximity of Hannibal, I could be convinced this is higher priority for our first settler than the gem city.
3) Settle the pile of rubble 3 tiles SE of Haitha.

I think this may be it for cities. (I am very happy we decided to take and keep Ning-hsai and Phrygian :) . These will be outstanding cities in Ghandi's quest for space.)

Micro Picture:

Some MM suggestions:

- El Do: switch from zerk to settler. Need to expand, prolly have enough military for a little while.
- Iron Sheep: work the cottages instead of the mines. It will slow the cat build, but we don't need the cat as desperately as we need to advance our commerce/science.
- Yayoi: switch from forge to something else (courthouse or market). This isn't much of a prod city, not sure it needs a forge. We should set it up to squeeze out commerce.
- New Sarai: switch a citizen from the farm to one of the developed cottages. It will slow pop growth by 2 turns, but provide a pile of gold.

Last Thought:

Cottages, cottages, cottages.
 
Good stuff, markh. I am ready to play now, but I will wait a day to gather all feedback from you all before proceeding. I will therefore be playing in 23 hours' time.

Number one question I need a view on is where to take the Settler that is currently SW of El Dorado sala. It is one turn to get to Old Haitha and 4 turns to get to Old Karakorum.

Also. Nidaros will become doubly unhealthy in 3 turns when it grows and completes its forge. What would you suggest doing to address this? We could whip 2 pop to get Forge now, and/or we can trade our last gold to Mehmet for Cows or Fish, or we could let 'em fester.
 
Before the forge finishes you can squeeze in an aqueduct, so both finish shortly after another.

I would settle where Haitha was first and the city where Karakorum was after that. As The Hawk suggested you can switch the build in Nidaros to a settler, so we can settle the spots faster. The forge is not an immediate need in Nidaros.
 
A settler, aqueduct, then forge in Nidaros?

Any more votes for the New Haitha settlement first?

I'll go for New Haitha. Make sure we have a pretty good garrison, although I thing you know that. :) I certainly agree with the idea of settling New Karakorum soonest. If the majority is for New Karakorum first then that's fine by me.
 
Nice clean up Job Captain.:) I would go for peace if WW is an issue.

I am thinking it would be prefferable to settle the Kara site first.
Reason is if Gandhi come and place a city in the vicinity, since we are at war, we can take or raze it. If Hanny settle the old Kara site, we loose out on a great piece of real estate. So I would go claim that first. Who knows with the travel time needed we can settle both in about the same turn. Oh start grainary in old kara for sure and a grainary or a wall in Haith.
 
I also believe New Karakorum should be settled first...we don't want Hannibal stealing all those already built cottages!
 
I would go for peace if WW is an issue.

I am thinking it would be prefferable to settle the Kara site first.
Reason is if Gandhi come and place a city in the vicinity, since we are at war, we can take or raze it. If Hanny settle the old Kara site, we loose out on a great piece of real estate. So I would go claim that first. Who knows with the travel time needed we can settle both in about the same turn. Oh start grainary in old kara for sure and a grainary or a wall in Haith.

I tried to make peace with Khan each turn after taking Ning Hsia, but he does not want to talk to us , yet. I would try it each turn, but would move our units to Old Sarai. If he does agree to peace, we should take it, otherwise just move him from this continent.

I agree that the Kara site should be settled first.
 
Summary: Settled two cities as planned. Defended against some barbarians. Peace with Khan. No sign of Gandhi. Judaism spreads to us at last. Economy still struggling to get momentum but getting better.

Details:
IBT: Islam has been founded in Bombay

1106 AD: Nidaros: Switched Forge to Settler (5 turns). Settler started moving to old Karakorum.

IBT: Nothing

1112 AD: Barbarian archer shows up near New Sarai. Not much else happened.

IBT: Nothing

1118 AD: Iron Sheep: Catapult => Beserker. Axeman kills Barbarian Archer. Hannibal sends forth a Jewish Missionary. Traded Corn to Mehmet for a precious 9 gold per turn.

IBT: Trireme survives attack from Barbarian Trireme. Temple of Solomon built in a far away land.

1124 AD: Optics => Astronomy. Barbarian axeman heads for Ning-Hsia. :( Chariot is 3 turns away. Only swordsman and spearman defending Ning-Hsia. Mental note: do more fog busting. Settle New Karakorum. Start library for culture pressure on Thapsus. :assimilate:

IBT: Nothing

1130 AD: Uppsala: Forge => Caravel. Rushed Chariot in Ning-Hsia. Will lose a town there to Axeman next turn. :(

IBT: Barbarian Axeman has a brain explosion and attacks Ning-Hsia instead of pillaging. Swordsman successfully defends. :yeah: No loss of town, but now we have an extra Chariot and Courthouse is back to being 89 turns away. University of Sankore built in far away land. Barbarian Warrior shows up near Phrygian.

1136 AD: Chariot kills Barbarian Warrior. Nidaros: Settler => Forge. -17 gold per turn at 60% science.

IBT: Nothing

1142 AD: Nidaros: Forge => Harbour (for +1 health). Traded Gold to Mehmet for Cow for +1 health (nobody had any spare gold to trade). Need to keep an eye on these trades to upgrade them when we get more of our health resources on stream.

IBT: Nothing

1148 AD: Peace with Genghis Khan for 190 gold. We were starting to run short and he didn’t want to give us Feudalism or Theocracy. Peace was the best plan as Old Sarai is chock full of Longbowmen and Catapults and I wanted to devote more forces to defending against Gandhi especially with new city arriving. Haithabu settled. -40 gold per turn at 70%.

IBT: Judaism has spread to our lands in Iron Sheep. We reach a total of 2 million souls.

1154 AD: Not much to say. We now have spare gems to trade, but nobody has anything useful to offer. There is still a goody hut on an island near Old Sarai.

IBT: Nothing

1160 AD: Nidaros: Harbour => Crossbowman. Not much else happened. Started Winery near Phrygia.

What next:
1) Do we adopt Judaism to keep Hannibal happy?
2) Caravel on its way so we can go exploring soon
3) Where will Gandhi strike next?
4) Feel free to change any of my build queues, especially all those buildings that will take forever to build

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/Geezers_SG004_AD1160_01.CivWarlordsSave
 
Looks good Harbourboy. :)
 
I can see the thinking behind Astro but I wonder if Guilds and Banking might be a better tech path to improve our treasury, speed research and help increase our power.

I think Nidaros should start a caravel after the crossbow. More workers and settlers wouldn't go amiss either. I fully agree with The-Hawk that more cottages is good.
 
We actually have lots of cottages already thanks to Khan. We are building cottages faster than our cities can utilise them. Hopefully we will see the benefit of this as they start to grow into hamlets and villages over time.

A question about your Banking point. Given that we seem to try and run at maximum science, and our use of a cottage economy, and our lack of a holy city - how much benefit would Banking provide us? Would we really be building many banks at this point?

I agree with your doubts re Astronomy but nothing else leapt out as being a must-have. None of the other Civs have Astronomy yet, so hopefully we might be able to get something useful for it in trades (assuming they don't all pick it up themselves in the meantime). Trading away Astronomy is probably not the end of the world because we'd quite like Gandhi to get it (so he can start star-gazing and dreaming of Alpha Centauri - or wherever the heck his spaceship is headed).
 
A question about your Banking point. Given that we seem to try and run at maximum science, and our use of a cottage economy, and our lack of a holy city - how much benefit would Banking provide us? Would we really be building many banks at this point?

I was mainly looking at techs that would allow us to multiply our gold income. Those two techs with the addition of a market let us double our gold income in selected cities. They're not necessarily the best choice but the prospect of 20 or so turns for Astro didn't seem that appealing. Especially since Optics will allow us to explore the known world.

I agree with your doubts re Astronomy but nothing else leapt out as being a must-have. None of the other Civs have Astronomy yet, so hopefully we might be able to get something useful for it in trades (assuming they don't all pick it up themselves in the meantime). Trading away Astronomy is probably not the end of the world because we'd quite like Gandhi to get it (so he can start star-gazing and dreaming of Alpha Centauri - or wherever the heck his spaceship is headed).

I overlooked the possibility of trades. :blush: Mind you I'm not sure how many civs have guilds either so that might help for trades.
 
so I'm up next? I'll take a look at the save in awhile and play tomorrow night...gotta get some of my kinks worked out on the WOTM rather than here ;)

Looking forward to all the comments I'll see here in awhile!
 
on a somewhat related note...what does everyone think of the Apolyton/CFC merger?

I personally dislike it greatly because it will not add to anything I'm interested in, except that I'll have to pay to do things I've been doing for free since Civ4 was released!

I've already joined the break-away site, CPC, which Alan has joined as well. I'd like you guys to do so as well if this turns out to not be an April Fools joke, which I suspect it is not since staff such as ALan, Superslug, Methos, and others have all run away to CPC as well.
 
I don't understand what is going on. I'm just a very simple person and not interested in the politics of websites (no other one I have ever been on has had this sort of drama).

But I come back to a question I asked ages ago about how this site was funded given that it never seems to ask for donations. Surely advertising does not provide that much income. Hosting a big site like this is not cheap.

I will happily go anywhere I can play stuff like GOTM and SGOTM because it adds more spice than playing offline (where you can happily reload or give up if it doesn't all go according to plan).
 
I believe they pay for the site using banners and cash from their affiliate links.

It can easily be done, if enough traffic is generated.

I don't much care for politics either, but I'm entirely opposed to having to pay to play GOTMs and SGOTMs...thus the reason for the new site Alan and I have joined.
 
Thrallia said:
on a somewhat related note...what does everyone think of the Apolyton/CFC merger?


Repeating what I said in the HOF forum:

My two cents... link

Hard to believe this isn't a joke... but in case it isn't, you can express your opinion in a poll here: poll

Bottom line, I will most likely follow the HOF to the new site (CPC)... even if I do lurk on Civjunction, I certainly won't pay to play.
 
Will someone just tell me what is going on? What a drama this all is. I just want to get on with my various games of the month in peace.
 
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