SGOTM 04 - Murky Waters

[LowtherCastle]

Darn it. I was hoping to get back to my GOTM17, but obviously you guys need straightening out.

Brennus has only 2 hill towns, Bibracte is one of them. I'd be more concerned with him concentrating units there to protect it, than with how many new units he'll produce. In any case, the Bibractattack will require those cats and trebs, which won't arrive till around T10, so I guess if you're able to take all the rest of his cities before then, Gnejs, it makes sense to do it.

If Erkon can capture 6, you shold be able to capture at least 7, right?

(I'm ignoring, of course, that Erkon had things prepared in advance by a brilliant master in military strategy, because I know you want the Challenger version of things...)

 

[LowtherCastle]

Bibracte has only ten hammers, while Gergovia has 14. Vienne has Heroic Epic and more than ten hammers. Tolosa has >10 hammers as well. Bibracte is very important for his research and has National Epic + shrine. Even if it is his most valuable city, I doubt it is his most important city when the war is started. IMHO

All true, but in terms of the mental anguish and confusion he'll suffer, Bibracte takes the cake.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Here's an incredibly intelligent solution to the above discussion, translated into normal English so all of you can understand it.

The S attack will draw Brennus' attention S, so that attack should draw his attention S.

This should be followed up by the N attack which will include defense-reducing siegers that should reduce the city defenses, and an attack force that should then take Bibracte regardless of whether it now (10 turns later) has 9 LBMs and a bunch of other units.

Simple.

 

[LowtherCastle]

@JERFit, begin preparing your plan for taking out Isabella in ten turns, cuz I wouldn't count on Gnejs leaving anything of Brennus for you.

 

[Erkon]

Darn it. I was hoping to get back to my GOTM17, but obviously you guys need straightening out.

Brennus has only 2 hill towns, Bibracte is one of them. I'd be more concerned with him concentrating units there to protect it, than with how many new units he'll produce. In any case, the Bibractattack will require those cats and trebs, which won't arrive till around T10, so I guess if you're able to take all the rest of his cities before then, Gnejs, it makes sense to do it.

If Erkon can capture 6, you shold be able to capture at least 7, right?

(I'm ignoring, of course, that Erkon had things prepared in advance by a brilliant master in military strategy, because I know you want the Challenger version of things...)

What? We're not playing the challenger-save?

It's perfect if Brennus stations his units in Bibracte. The trebs will kill off his longbowmen, and our berserkers will cut through his axemen and GW like hot knife in butter.

LC - I'm disappointed that you didn't count my captured cities...

 

[Gnejs]

Here's an incredibly intelligent solution to the above discussion, translated into normal English so all of you can understand it.

The S attack will draw Brennus' attention S, so that attack should draw his attention S.

This should be followed up by the N attack which will include defense-reducing siegers that should reduce the city defenses, and an attack force that should then take Bibracte regardless of whether it now (10 turns later) has 9 LBMs and a bunch of other units.

Simple.

Thanks. Sometimes Erkon gets very long-winded, and it is easy to stop paying attention.

I plan to start playing my turns in about two hours. I will basically follow the above plan, but here is an added twist: while waiting for the necessary shuffling/buildup I will try to bring down the number of defenders in one or two of the low culture coastal cities using some amphibious berserker attacks (but no capture/raze). This should further confuse the AI and maybe draw some mobile units away from Bibcrate.

I also see the need for a medic III unit, usually very handy to have during an invasion like this. Will put the GG on this unless you object...

 

[LowtherCastle]

Raze Bagacum, Durocortorum, Isca. Keep the rest.

The caravel to the west is on the way to spy on Brennus coastal cities.

These leaves out a big chunk of his most fertile soil in the mid-section.

 

[Big Pig]

I also see the need for a medic III unit, usually very handy to have during an invasion like this. Will put the GG on this unless you object...

Might the GG not be better served building a Mil Acad or being a Mil Instr in Vienne (or similar..)?

 

[LowtherCastle]

I plan to start playing my turns in about two hours.

I'm working on a bit map proposal and I'l post it asap. This is our future homeland. We want to be smart about it.

 

[Erkon]

These leaves out a big chunk of his most fertile soil in the mid-section.

I'm sorry but I don't understand if this was an acknowledgement or not

 

[Erkon]

Might the GG not be better served building a Mil Acad or being a Mil Instr in Vienne (or similar..)?

He, he, one step ahead!? So, should we press on towards Isabella after Brennus? What then is our ultimate goal (apart from loosing )? To speed up the general tech pace?

It's a dilemma as usual (short term vs long term). I've experience how superior a healer unit is during an offensive. Such a unit will save lots of turns. And since it can move fast, it can stay with the injured, and then move to the next injured stack. I don't know if it will be worth it, since I don't know what will happen later in the game

OTOH, we will get another one when the Brennus crousade is over.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I'm working on a bit map proposal and I'l post it asap. This is our future homeland. We want to be smart about it.

I'm sorry but I don't understand if this was an acknowledgement or not

I don't insist on this at all, but it's an idea. The new Vienne (West) has 20+ hammers. The new Vienne E is a nice city, but optional.

The two desert cities in South the become one much more useful city, with less desert but this kills a nice village.

THe Western city that has grabbed the silk has been moved 1 tile to the East. I'm assuming the fogged tile in its original location is not providing any food, since Brennus has two farms there and the city is only size 8. EDIT: It picks up 1 desert tile, but also gains a plains/hill.

The short-term negative is building 4 settlers to do this. The long-term benefit is reducing two lousy desert cities to one and using that central grassland for two cities instead of one.

EDIT: Note that 3 of the four new cities have 2 food resources each (the W city has none, as before presumably, but it has 4 irrigatable grass tiles).

 

[Big Pig]

I don't insist on this at all, but it's an idea. The new Vienne (West) has 20+ hammers. The new Vienne E is a nice city, but optional.

The two desert cities in South the become one much more useful city, with less desert but this kills a nice village.

THe Western city that has grabbed the silk has been moved 1 tile to the East. I'm assuming the fogged tile in its original location is not providing any food, since Brennus has two farms there and the city is only size 8.

The short-term negative is building 4 settlers to do this. The long-term benefit is reducing two lousy desert cities to one and using that central grassland for two cities instead of one.

Certainly a very interesting thought - those city locations you have chosen do look very good. Remeber tho' we will also lose whatever improvements Brennus has built if we raze all his cities. Also, if there is a big hole there while we are building settlers, Isa may fill it. (of course, she may even settle in the 'correct' spots....... )

 

[LowtherCastle]

Certainly a very interesting thought - those city locations you have chosen do look very good. Remeber tho' we will also lose whatever improvements Brennus has built if we raze all his cities. Also, if there is a big hole there while we are building settlers, Isa may fill it. (of course, she may even settle in the 'correct' spots....... )

Yes, and we lose the population. I'm seeing:

Cumulodunum: lh, granary
Tolosa: granary
Vienne: CH, granary
Verlania: lh, granary​

So it looks to me like we'd be losing at most some combination of 3 buildings in 4 cities.

 

[Erkon]

How about keeping all the current cities, then build Large-Capital (aka as LC) where the pink/magenta/whatevercolor is located? We then use LC for production, while the other cites are used for commerce?

Although it is an excellent map, I'm not afraid of overlapping cities.

 

[LowtherCastle]

He, he, one step ahead!? So, should we press on towards Isabella after Brennus? What then is our ultimate goal (apart from loosing )? To speed up the general tech pace?

It's a dilemma as usual (short term vs long term). I've experience how superior a healer unit is during an offensive. Such a unit will save lots of turns. And since it can move fast, it can stay with the injured, and then move to the next injured stack. I don't know if it will be worth it, since I don't know what will happen later in the game Judging from Gnejs' plan, he'll need a lot of healers...if any of his units survive, that is.

I think we want to definitely go on toward Isabella. Madrid is a great site for either our capital or FP. We want to have a powerful economy=Brennus+Isabella.

Then we help Washington slice and dice Mehmed...so that Washington also has a killer economy.

 

[Erkon]

I think we want to definitely go on toward Isabella. Madrid is a great site for either our capital or FP. We want to have a powerful economy=Brennus+Isabella.

Then we help Washington slice and dice Mehmed...so that Washington also has a killer economy.

I like, I like.

 

[LowtherCastle]

How about keeping all the current cities, then build Large-Capital (aka as LC) where the pink/magenta/whatevercolor is located? We then use LC for production, while the other cites are used for commerce?

Although it is an excellent map, I'm not afraid of overlapping cities.

That looks like this:

 

[LowtherCastle]

What that does is make those 4 cities share 5 food resources, whereas before I had 3 cities @2 each.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Also, if there is a big hole there while we are building settlers, Isa may fill it. (of course, she may even settle in the 'correct' spots....... )

Well, I think if we're going to do this, then Gnejs should attack from the W, SW, and N, not from the S/SE. Then the gap would appear later and by then we be in position to simply move furhter SE into Isa Land, so she wouldn't be doing anything with her settler other than offering us worker-sacrifices...

EDIT: In other words, Gnejs' goal would be to go for those 4 Western cities and Bibracte. WHich creates a nice loop, ending up with our troops in the SE.

EDIT2: Furthermore, the 4 W cities and Bibracte are much closer together, so the troops don't need to move so much between battles. Much cleaner plan for a turnset.

EDIT3: And since you're razing everything but Gergovia and Bibracte, you don't have to leave units behind to defend.