SGOTM 04 - Team VQ

Cosmichail · Mar 15, 2007

CFC autolog

Spoiler :

Space launch alpha

EDIT: Just looked at Gandhi's capitol. Ivory is sitting on plains forest so that site will yield 5 hammers? and iron/gems so he can build fast so we shouldn't let down our guard even for a minute. He has Trireme near Haithabu and the sooner we get caravels the better. (Gandhi will likely beat us to that)

GreyFox · Mar 15, 2007

Good job getting Birka back! :goodjob:

This game is definitely turning interesting.

--

Cosmichail · Mar 16, 2007

Hey Fox where you off to this time.

This game is definitely turning interesting.

Certainly is. I didn't play as well as I would have liked to. That 3 turns of anarchy gave me anxiety attack watching Gandhi have his way with us. Little bugger but kudos to him. At least he showed us who's boss. He certainly caught us with our pants down. If it wasn't for a few lucky attacks on our part (67.1% and 73% for Keshik) it could have turned out a lot different. That is actually where the jungle was a big help in keeping our troops safe. Otherwise a pain getting troops deployed.

GreyFox · Mar 16, 2007

Heading to Prague next week.

Well, jungle (and hills and forests) cuts both way ... but it usually helps whoever that is on the weak side.

--

namliaM · Mar 16, 2007

Cosmichail said:
I had to continuously shuffle workers out of harms way making their position now look like poor planning.

Better have safe workers in odd places than no workers... :goodjob:

cosmic said:
In hindsight I wish I had as GK showed up with two Keshiks. I forget to whip that darn spear too and start the revolution.

Thats what you get for listening to me, havent you learned yet that what ever I say, do the opposit???

3 turn anarchy Bites!

cosmic said:
But it was reassuring to see that we are fulfilling the variant. (Losing hee hee)

cosmic said:
One lbm is wandering around Uppsala but I left a sword there to keep him at bay. Also Uppsala is building a cat so that when he does get out into the open to pillage we hit him with a combat cat and finish if with sword if he looses. For a while he just stood at Uppsala waving at our citizens.

Hmz wrong way around me thinks, a catapult is more expensive than a sword and the Cata cannot do colatorol damage, negating that advantage.
In this situation I would attempt an attack with the (stronger) sword first, then clean up with anything if he dies.

Peace with GK, including 7gpt to us... Nice bonus

Cosmic said:
It really made me want to attack to get rid of those and keep Gandhi away for a bit but couldn’t. ARGH…..

Why not? With just the sword + axe there?? Or did you attack and was that stack left behind? It looks on the screeny like we have 4 movable units vs 2 (wounded) defenders ??

(mmm there’s no way we got 12 points of XP during this time since I haven’t even attacked Birka yet. So now I wonder if it’s only XP points during battle)

Hmz, strange... makes you wonder he?

The battle of Birka

Now lets keep it safe untill we want to lose it ....

Brennus is always annoyed and part of the Buddhist block.

We were missing a civ?!

Depends on what tech we want to/can give him....

Dont know about the worker assignments, maybe we can have 2 workers for the spice and suggar at Birka, I dont like the idea of running 2 workers from Upsalla to Brika.... maybe we should distribute the workers a bit, just one to a city with one or 2 free workers doing to the running to where help is needed.
I agree we now have some breathing space, time to insert the Forge at Nadiros and 2 settlers out of someplace to settle YELLOW in particular, this is cheap and will help with working them gems right aways.
Orange will help (big time) once a little developed...

@Greyfox, Prague? As in europe? Have fun man!

Roster
namliaM -- +1 gmt (Actually 0 atm due to DST) >On deck for next week
Greyfox -- +8 gmt > Due for some Khaaan stomping?
Maquis -- -7 gmt
Bobrath -- -5 gmt
Healium -- +1 gmt -- Auto skip due to a Herniated disk *Good luck man* and be well
Scowler -- gmt > UP to rebuild and re-prep for Khaaan
Frankcor-- -5 gmt <Lurker>
Cosmichail -- -5gmt > Recovered our fumbling Birka

Cosmichail · Mar 16, 2007

Why not? With just the sword + axe there?? Or did you attack and was that stack left behind? It looks on the screeny like we have 4 movable units vs 2 (wounded) defenders ??

I notice that too now but there was a elephant there as I had to waste two cats to take him out. I would have attacked with just a sword and axe there but I swear man there was an elephant in there too. In galley??? He was even visible to me in the city????

Hmz wrong way around me thinks, a catapult is more expensive than a sword and the Cata cannot do colatorol damage, negating that advantage.
In this situation I would attempt an attack with the (stronger) sword first, then clean up with anything if he dies

Scowler can do that since the sword is there and cat ready to be whipped for 1 pop.

As to workers 4 are still at Uppsala. 1 at Birka and 1 at Haithabu which could be used at Birka. Then two left at Nidaros so Scowler can figure out what to do but you're right about workers and we will be ok with 2 at Birka.

Uppsala is turning out to be a nice city with a cottage nearing village I think. If we leave the 4 workers we could road marble and build some more infrastructure there.

I also agree to whilst we can breathe we start forge/and get a couple of settlers. We should get that spot on line (orange??) gems/sugar/horses site. That I think should be first as it could be a great city too. With having 4 workers nearby at Uppsala we could really work the land fast.

Yep I shouldn't have listened like you said especially with that grueling 3 turns. :lol:

namliaM · Mar 16, 2007

Cosmichail said:
I notice that too now but there was a elephant there as I had to waste two cats to take him out. I would have attacked with just a sword and axe there but I swear man there was an elephant in there too. In galley??? He was even visible to me in the city????

See, I do read them... and look at all the screenies too!!!
Funny thing about that WE tho... If you add a full heath WE in that city I wonder if the spear would still face the Axeman... I think so...
Even with the WE I think I would have sacrificed an Axe to wound it and clean up... but... thats me... I can imagine sticking it out when facing that WE.
Was this screeny maybe after the 2 cata to take out the WE? It would account for the damaged units as well.

cat ready to be whipped for 1 pop.

Whipping for 1 pop ... :nono:

try to allways whip for >1 pop, it is WAY more efficient than 1 pop.

About workers *without looking at the save*, if all the cities right now are working improved tiles we should try and get 1 worker to a city in order to pre-improve the land. If we have a lot of pre-improvement allready the worker can help out elsewhere.
Priorities for 'free' workers I think:
-> Improve bare tiles
Improve any tiles that are beeing worked by any city allready.
-> Hook up Spice and Sugar, but only at the speed of:
1) we need the happy in any city
2) We need the tile improvement for Birka
-> Prechop Jungle, in 2 stages
1) Get the yellow gems prechopped/cleared and clear the yellow dot.
2) Start clearing Orange, which may be a little risky... make sure to get a guard out there for looking out towards (previous) Jelling to spot Gandhi comming.

The key is balance I think, not like Bjorgvin where we had like 5 tiles pre-improved by 4 workers and having Nadiros working unimproved grassland or a plains forrest.

Cosmichail · Mar 16, 2007

You know what, now that I think about it I mixed up the screenie and that was the battle of Birka. I agree on wasting a few units at the time when the ships were in there (or noticed it) that damn elephant was combat level III. It took two cats just to weaken him and the odds for the swords/axes was terrible and of course the spear always ends up against axe. I just didn't think wasting axe/sword/cat at the time was worth it with badly needed units as that was what was at the city at the time. Trust me I wanted to attack and take out his navy bad but the elephant was just too strong.

As to cities working improved tiles they all are even Birka. Imagine that farm now is helping working the gems. Nidaros has now pre-improved land and so does Haithabu. I did have worker starting a cottage (Haithabu) but felt getting spices hooked for commerce/food would be better since Haithabu has enough improved tiles for now. He is still in Haithabu but can be in Birka in 2 turns.

The area I think needs the most work is Birka and Uppsala. Bjorgvin is fine and needs no work atm.

Again I mixed up orange/yellow but the site south of Nidaros is what I mean. Once we road marble and maybe improve a few more tiles at Uppsala for anticipated growth we could use those 4 workers to clear that land for the new city. The area is in our culture so it can be worked and imo will be a good production/commerce/ and adequate food.

Watch our coast

Gandhi may have been slowed down but that capitol has lots of production. The ivory is sitting in a plains forest. (can see that Gyathaar placed that there as I have never seen ivory in plains forest except for fantasy realm) including iron/gems so he has the production capacity to come back at us soon. So don't let down the guard there. Him having WE's is pain as even maces/berserkers don't do well against them in the open. Sure with CR3 against city no problem.

@namliaM - team

I apoligize as my play wasn't my norm but I wasn't feeling that good and still aren't. (high blood pressure) So if I mixed up that screenie and make a bad trade with Washington I just wasn't clear headed as I usually am.

We did not loose one worker and only lost two cats/one spear.

Enemy lost 3 Keshiks/3 elephants/sword/axe/2 triremes/3 galleys. There was a sword near Birka but he disappeared or maybe I was imagining it. I think we have too much fog at Bjorgvin and won't be able to see a surprise attack. Perhaps putting something there to defog the area so we know what's coming.

Hopefully with a couple more good cities online we will be able to weather this out until Gandhi launches.

@namliaM - Since Hannibal has CS/machinery now should we think about getting CS too just in case. I have that nightmare of fighting maces with swords (mmmm some multiplayer game as I recall) and don't want to see us in that position.

Scowler · Mar 16, 2007

I see the save, but will not play before tomorrow sometime. I'll refresh my memory of the game and reports later today.

namliaM · Mar 16, 2007

Cosmichail said:
I apoligize as my play wasn't my norm but I wasn't feeling that good and still aren't. (high blood pressure) So if I mixed up that screenie and make a bad trade with Washington I just wasn't clear headed as I usually am.

Dont worry about it, just me nitpicking... I have been known to mix up a screeny or 2... It just jumped out at me as beeing "strange" => I mean peculiar, but I dont know how to spell that....

Any losses Gandhi has to take in favour of us is production lost on his part going to the stars... Therefor I would like see us make relocating to that other continent our highest priority:
1) Clean up Khaaan for Gandhi
2) Clean up Hannibal (he is closest right?) for us.

Xbows can handle Macemen just fine... and we are just a couple of turns from Machinery. If we can sling Astronomy we will be untouchable on the water (for a while), freeing our hands to get the most from our Bezerkers.

Getting machinery will obsoleet archers, meaning we cannot build them anymore for cheap and semi effective MP. Chariots are cheap MP too, but way less effective than archers are.

cosmic said:
I have that nightmare of fighting maces with swords (mmmm some multiplayer game as I recall)

Hmz, any recent game ??? :mischief:

Edit:

on getting all cities working improved tiles, if that is the case... I still havent looked at the save...

Cosmichail · Mar 16, 2007

Small exception on working all improved tiles. Uppsala is working corn which is unimproved but workers will have farm there in 2 turns. So other than that every city is working only improved tiles and on my second look Uppsala has enough too maybe just add another cottage on river next to corn and road marble then proceed to the new city site.

@Scowler
Also I notice Uppsala is working plains farm and once we get corn online again we should work that grass mine instead or cottage whatever you feel is necessary. We don't have many mature cottages only Uppsala has one producing 4 or 5 coins. Nidaros is working 1 cottage and so is Haithabu and both will be a bit before they turn into hamlets.

if that is the case

IF IF.........you doubt my word? I must have checked the cities every turn to make sure they were working the right tiles.

bobrath · Mar 16, 2007

IIRC we have a scout. Plop him down to do some fog busting in the SW and worst case lose a "cheap" hammer unit.

Cosmichail · Mar 17, 2007

Bob where do you mean about the scout? I just noticed fog west of Bjorgvin water inlet there which is blindspot and we won't see a landing coming. I didn't notice a scout and thought maybe a chariot could fill in since we have one in Haithabu.

namliaM · Mar 17, 2007

The scout might have been abort the galley? Or possibly lost allready?

bobrath · Mar 18, 2007

End of my turn, our scout was in the jungle between Jelling and our gem city...

Cosmichail · Mar 18, 2007

He's still there, hiding in the jungle so yep he can go do some fogbusting duty. So wrapped up in the battle I never noticed him.

Scowler · Mar 18, 2007

Nice turns, Cosmic - and thanks for the swap

Regarding the OB issue with Brennus: I did some WB experimentation and it seems that he won't be willing to sign an OB agreement unless he is cautious (at zero). We are currently at -5 so it will take more than one tech to get him to that level (it would have been better to negotiate at first contact when it would have carried a greater diplomatic weighting); it is most likely that gifted techs will only improve our standing by one point each, and even that is not for certain.

I even considered briefly the possibility of switching out of Hinduism, but decided that it wasn't worth the 2 turns of anarchy to swap out and back in, the loss of the Theocracy exp points while building our army, or dropping to -1 with GK. We would probably still have needed to gift at least one tech to Brennus, and even though our diplomatic status would have been improved with the other civs as well, I think subsequent events proved that this didn't really matter that much anyway.

I did some quick micro work on Nidaros and Uppsala which allowed these cities to grow more quickly without losing any turns on builds or research.

Then it was time to deal with the annoying LB that was hanging around Uppsala. Since it was most likely he would move onto the northern cottage to pillage the following turn I had to find some way of stopping him. Moving a spear onto the cottage was one idea, but the LB would still have roughly 70% chance of victory: if that happened we would have lost the spear and been no better off, since the counterattack would be across the river. If I moved both spears onto the cottage Uppsala would be defended by only an archer. Even though the LB would have only 28.3% chance of victory if he attacked I felt it was not worth taking the risk of losing the city. So I whipped the cat for 1 pop and moved both spears out.

(1) 665AD
Sure enough, the LB attacked the spears, and...

The injured LB was swiftly dealt with

The overflow from the cat was put back into an already-queued and half-built replacement spear.

Izzy then offered us cows in exchange for our gems: obviously no deal made

Then came an unwelcome surprise:

Nothing I can really do to stop him...

(2) 680AD
...and he settles right away:

With the completion of the cat in the capital I immediately started a settler of our own.
Elsewhere, Gandhi completed the Chichen Itza, while Khan and Izzy both adopted Vassalage.

(3) 695AD
For his next trick, Gandhi founds Taoism in Bombay
Meanwhile I've been sending the scout to explore to the NW and uncover Gandhi's city there.

Oops. Bye-bye scout. I put a couple of units there to provide early warning of any invasion from that direction.

I notice that Hannibal's new city is already Confused, giving it support for the inevitable culture battle.

(5) 725AD

I turned him down: we already have some minuses from him, while Washington is Pleased and a possible trade partner. We got -1 from this, but he remained at Cautious. Izzy has also dropped down to Cautious by now.

Marble is at last online...

(6) 740AD
First sugar resource is online at Birka; workers start on the second.

(7) 755AD
Hinduism spreads to Samarqand:

I see an opportunity to make a trade for Machinery, since it will still save a few turns:

(8) 770AD
I then use our new tech to grab another:

I've now set research to Civil Service for Beserkers; there doesn't seem to be any chance of trading for it at the moment.

(9) 785AD
Hinduism spreads to Sarmation

(10) 800AD
I forgot at first that this was the final turn and made another trade - sorry - but I think it was worthwhile.

To make up for that lapse I've deliberately left the settler (+ escort) and workers active so you can decide whether to go for Yellow dot or pick an alternative. I've pre-chopped the jungle on the gems at Yellow already.

Erik the Viking is up...

SAVE

Scowler · Mar 18, 2007

Spoiler CFC log :

Spoiler autolog :

namliaM · Mar 19, 2007

Scowler said:
(10) 800AD
I forgot at first that this was the final turn and made another trade - sorry - but I think it was worthwhile.

I think we are on 15 turns or am I wrong? I now see that Cosmic also did 10, oh well... are we on 10? Guess so...

Nice builder turns for you Scowler,
About brennus and OBs, we can do a corn for cows deal with him (tho thru 10.000 borders) and get the resource bonus (+1 IIRC) to boot. Then getting him to a point where he is cautious.... IIRC I read an article someplace that anywhere > -3 and < +3 is cautious. But then there are some hidden modifiers for been a warmonger civ too.... So I am not sure where we stand on the "real" points towards Brennus. IIRC we hare having health issues, if so getting the cow is a good idea regardless of the diplo point(s).

I dont know how far are we from getting our next GP? And do we have Meditation/Philo? Do we want to try and bulb towards Astronomy still if we get a GS?

I think in general we are in deep **** at the moment

or we are doing a good job at losing this game

but I dont know if we can stick around long enough for Gandhi to launch.
I think we need to take out (atleast) both Khaaan and Hannibal at some point... I think we want to tech to better units asap and forget about i.e. the liberalism race and/or the space race for this time.
Beter units:
Sea: Optics / Astro / Chem
Land: CS / Guilds / Chem

To get a GS to bulb Astro, we need:
- NOT have CS
- Have Philo or not be able to research it (not have meditation)
- Have Optics

Scowler · Mar 19, 2007

namliaM said:
I think we are on 15 turns or am I wrong? I now see that Cosmic also did 10, oh well... are we on 10? Guess so...

I think the understanding has always been 15 or 10 as desired; I rarely have the time to play 15, except in the early stages.

About brennus and OBs, we can do a corn for cows deal with him (tho thru 10.000 borders) and get the resource bonus (+1 IIRC) to boot. Then getting him to a point where he is cautious.... IIRC I read an article someplace that anywhere > -3 and < +3 is cautious. But then there are some hidden modifiers for been a warmonger civ too.... So I am not sure where we stand on the "real" points towards Brennus. IIRC we hare having health issues, if so getting the cow is a good idea regardless of the diplo point(s).

As I said, I tinkered with WB before playing and Brennus wouldn't consider OB until he reached zero with us. We've since lost another point to religion (-3 religion; -4 trading with worst enemy) so are currently at -6. Healthwise, ~~Nidaros will reach the limit with the next pop growth~~, but also note that Brennus is Washington's worst enemy. Correction: Nidaros is 6 turns away from completing a Forge so is effectively at the health limit NOW. All the other cities are a long way off the limit.

I dont know how far are we from getting our next GP? And do we have Meditation/Philo? Do we want to try and bulb towards Astronomy still if we get a GS?

As things stand we are 19 turns from the next Great Person (in Nidaros; you can reduce it to 12 if you add 2 scientists). 60% chance for Scientist; 40% for Prophet ...but yes, we already have Meditation.

Hence my choice of CS.

SGOTM 04 - Team VQ

Dark Lord of The Sith

Make it so ...

Dark Lord of The Sith

Make it so ...

Deity

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Deity

Dark Lord of The Sith

Mr. Understatement

Deity

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Emperor

Dark Lord of The Sith

Deity

Emperor

Dark Lord of The Sith

Mr. Understatement

Mr. Understatement

Deity

Mr. Understatement

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