SGOTM 04 - Team VQ

namliaM · Mar 19, 2007

Scowler said:
...I rarely have the time to play 15, except in the early stages.....

....As I said, I tinkered with WB ...

But plenty of time for tinkering

Finding that out

but also note that Brennus is Washington's worst enemy.

And Washington is just about the only one friendly with us.... Lets keep it that way I think, thus no trading with brennus

health limit NOW

I am sure I can find a way to keep it at/below the health limit (if needed)
:whipped:

That means no bulbing Astro untill researching Philo + Optics. Taoism has also been founded => Bulbing Philo is not really a point.
Delaying CS to research Optics + Philo is not really an option I think?? !!
So ... the remaining question is ... what do we do with either a GS or GP?
GS: Acadamy in Haihabu (gold city) I think (Give Gandhi benifit later too) OR keep it to burn on Chemistry (need to get Philo and avoid Paper), but help on us conquering. I will try and make a small calculation on the time required to research Gunpowder thru Guilds (+Optics if we want to go for circumvention)

GP: ?????? I dont know the techtree situation right now, but think it will bulb towards Devine right (Trade bate)?? Settle it? If settle where, Nadiros to add to the shrine gold?

bobrath · Mar 19, 2007

Uh... we got optics in trade from Izzy I thought.

And as far as the GProph goes, I'm always in favor of trade bait for techs. Helps us yank our way back into tech parity.

frankcor · Mar 19, 2007

How about founding the new city 3 tiles south of Hannibal's intruder city? I know this is a radical move but you'd be sure to take Sicca by culture flip fairly quickly with 3 cities hammering away at it.

namliaM · Mar 19, 2007

Hmz, misplacing a city in order to potentially flip a city... I dont think that is a good idea... It allready has a religion => Culture going. Lets just take it by force.... shall we :devil:

Optics we definatly aint got, we got compass not so long ago from Isa

I went ahead and moved the game ahead a few turns... and right now... I am tempted... more later log first...

Washington comes by to beg us for Literature, an obsoleet relatively cheap tech AND he is our only friend... Sure help out and get +1 too

I thought we could use the hammers from this forrest much better than Hannibal... So I desided to chop it before his borders popped...

Mehmed desides to reinact a clam

We get two more gold coins a turn when hinduism desides it a good time to spread to 2 more cities, one of ours and .....

Note Hannibal getting Circumvention

he is now on the naval level playing field where moving is concerned.

Now I am tempted to declare war on Khaaan ! I reshuffled some units and took the 7 catapult! Garrison of Birka and moved 5 of them south, leaving 2 in Birka for protection. I also moved an archer and LB into it, to solidify our holdings. The wall is (nearly) done... so it will not be (as) easy to take for Gandhi.
We are 2 turns from Bureaucracy and have a sizable stack now at the doors of Khaaan...

Basicaly 2 workers just for the taking... but ... are we ready (enough) to take on Khaaan?

That is what things look like, defenses at Uppsala... Defenses in the cities we can see of Khaaan... Not much to look at is there?

For your pleasure(s) I have uploaded the save for you to look at here

Spoiler autolog :

With a few catapults in reserve and some CR2 swords + axe in that stack we can do some serious damage to Khaaan even before we get Berserkers. Also cash is running low and we could run tech of the plunder gold

Cosmichail · Mar 19, 2007

Nice turns both of you...although I get the impression namliaM you are going to play some more turns since you only played 6. When we go to war with GK just note that he is "pleased" with Hannibal. This might instigate another war on that front so at some point we really should be yielding Berserkers/crossbows as Hannibal does have maces.

Diplomatic front

GK has not yet met Brennus/Mehmed.
Izzy is furious with him and Washington annoyed. (perhaps a war ally)
Gandhi too is annoyed with him so any chance of them helping each other out is not likely.

Gandhi isn't the most popular guy as hannibal is annoyed with him as well as GK. He hasn't met Izzy/Brennus nor Mehmed yet so we can guess what 90% of his focus is. Building units and not doing what we need him to do.

Being that's the case we indeed better get rid of his enemies as the only friend he has is Washington who is cautious with him.

I believe we definitely should go to war soon with GK and get Karakorum for our use and eventually Gandhi.

Research

I see we are running at 80% which only can be sustained one more turn. We do need optics next not for the bonus but simply to protect against Hannibal's caravels should they attack. Losing that is no big deal I suppose but it's nice being Ragnar and getting that. I do not think upon meeting Brennus we could have done much to get him to cautious with an immediate -5 I think. The moment we meet he was annoyed and I don't believe in gifting techs as it's just a waste in the long run. If he request something that may help but I think it's too late for that.

Nidaros

Since we have no coin upgrading our swords isn't going to happen. So harbour is good for Nidaros but if we go to war I would priortize that city for building us berserkers. Hopefully Nidaros when it grows can work the plains mine again and start pumping out units fast. Right now crossbow at 5 turns isn't that good meaning berserkers will take like 6 turns of course that isn't considering the forge yet. So if next citizen that is born works plains we go base hammers of 25 again plus 25% = 31 base hammers. Berserkers is what 105 hammers to build so 4 turns to build one. Not great/not bad....

Good luck and go take care of Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaannn but watch Hannibal he likes GK.

EDIT: I say we are ready btw and go kick his ass. None of those longbows have much in the way of promotions so swords should be able to handle once the cats do their thing. Hopefully most of those cats are capable of CR2 since I sweated it out to make sure any units coming out during my turn had the vassalage/theocracy/ bonus. Question is do we give up vassalage for buro. I say yes, yes and yes since adding 50% production will make a big difference in building berserkers like in 3 turns. Plus of course the commerce bonus too however Haithabu has more base commerce than Nidaros.

Cosmichail · Mar 19, 2007

One last note about Washington. He likes Hannibal (same faith) so if we at some point declare on Hannibal we will get negatives.

Karakorum

When we take that city I think we should cottage it up to bring our teching back on line since Ragnar on river gets three coins from the start.

Razing the rest is good but what do you think will happen?

Other AI's will definitely settle on that land and make it difficult for Gandhi to do his thing. How do we stop the other AI's from settling on new available land?

GreyFox · Mar 20, 2007

Our forces can only take one city barely. it takes 2 swords to kill a longbowman even with suicide cats. I suggest we raze that Ottar (sp?) city first to get some money for upgrade of sword to berserkers. So, one way to do it is to only move 1 unit to wards Ottar city on declaration of war, to see hhow is the defense, then bring only sufficient troops to raze Ottar, leaving 1 or 2 swords behind in our culture. Once we get the pillage money, upgrade them to Berserkers, and head towards Karakorum.

I would also add the crossbow in Uppsala to the offensive force for defending of captured city.

--

namliaM · Mar 20, 2007

Well indeed I was planning on playing a bit more...

The harbor in Nadiros is more for the health than it is the commerce, more health will allow it to grow bigger.... => More coins + more hammers.

All/most the catapults are CR2 (7xp) and IIRC so are most other units. One issue I did find was Bjorgvin building units WITHOUT a barracks!!!

On karakorum, I thought the thinking was to make it a GP farm? Or?? Yes we can cottage it up it will make a nice commerce city.
I was also looking at those cities we are going to raze... Lots of hammlets allready there. The problem is going to be if we keep them.... we need the FP someplace (fast) to stop our economy from tanking out completely.
We havent got a single courthouse anywhere and this would really help, but we need units now, not courthouses. Tho I think if we add a market in Nadiros and courthouses allround we can run 80% without deficit.
Also GK (or RNG) has allready provided Hinduism in those cities, razing them will hit us in the shrine as well

. Is it an option to actually keep those cities? Most are not bad at all...
Hopefully Brennus will build a Monastary in that city of his and start spamming some missionaries for us

Cosmichail · Mar 20, 2007

@Greyfox...

I agree on the lack of umph with swords against longbows and would prefer to do that with Berserkers. Maybe a good a idea to take one city and upgrade from the spoils but isn't one sword to Berserker like 155 gold. Personally never have much experience fighting longbows with swords although I do find CR2 cats get good odds against longbow with no promotions. It's that one with CD1 I noticed will give us grief and hopefully no CD2 longbows.

@namliaM

As to Karakorum it's just screaming cottages and GP farm at this point I think is too slow. Cottages will give immediate 3 commerce on rivers and grow to hamlets in 15 turns provding 4 coins. 7 or 8 tiles of cottages will yield at the start 21 base commerce and in 15 turns 28 base minimum. We need that bad.

I hate to see us raze everything (hindu cities would be shooting ourselves in the foot) and Hannibal/Brennus/Izzy/Mehmed....well you get the idea Gandhi might get one city and the rest from whoever. The city south of Karakorum could be razed to make room for more cottages but we should carefully think about how much open land we want to let AI spawn. That wine city would pay for itself too.

Courthouses are going to have to be whipped and I find typically capitol never needs other than fullfilling the need for FP. Speaking of which do we have even enough cities to get FP. (just checked: Requires: 6 courthouses, 8 or more cities)

Hopefully Brennus will build a Monastary in that city of his and start spamming some missionaries for us

mmmmm do you mean Hannibal? He settled on our land and need confucianism to get along with him which would be great for tech trading. Only thing is Buddhist block much bigger. (Izzy/Brennus/Mehmed I believe without looking at save). Also if you are referring to Brennus will be tough since he won't open borders anytime soon.

Just an idea if our finances get desperate. Put Haithabu on wealth but only if we are desperate.

Gandhi's enemies

Again remember that Hannibal is enemy of Gandhi and GK is too. If we want to keep Gandhi safe we need to take out both Hannibal and GK. Hannibal can be a real problem with teching too and if anybody has a chance at beating Gandhi it's him. He has maces and probably trebs too so if he decides to go after Gandhi he may well succeed. (pikes make elephants useless)

Another reason to turn Karakorum into cottage spam and use our trait to the fullest. We really need to get serious about a large army campaign and bring down those that offer the most threat right now.

Hannibal = definitely will take space race if we don't cut him down to size.
GK = simply we want that land for Gandhi but we should try to keep a few cities maybe with culture land grab as much as we can without having to hold cities. As we know AI keeps settlers handy as soon as you raze they are there with settlers. If we leave all that land open we end up with various AI's settling.

Once we take out Hannibal (I know big words from a small army as we need to get some practice on GK first) it will slow overall teching since he is they key and has OB with most AI as most are pleased or cautious with him. Except for Gandhi of course but I haven't played a game yet where everybody hates Gandhi. (same with Mansa too all the time) :lol:

namliaM · Mar 20, 2007

Cats are needed for any cultural defense removal. But these are more expensive than Swords and with only one or 2 defenders in a city suiciding a sword makes more sence than the cats. I am most worried about that combat 3 axe that is out there.

As to Karakorum it's just screaming cottages and GP farm

Well if not Karakorum as GP Farm... then what? when and where? Or do we limit our GP generation to Nadiros ?? (a real option too with TGL + Hedge it brings 10GPT). Any other GP Farm would need atleast 4 specialists maybe 5 to keep up... meaning Temple + Lib + Forge (or somesort like that) unless we addopt Caste System which I dont see happening anytime soon.

I hate to see us raze everything

I agree, I think most those cities will pay for themselves at 50% pretty soon, if not immediatly the moment they come out of revolt. Also like you say, there is a real threat that Gandhi will not come (or to late) and the other AI (namely Hannibal) will come and settle, making him even more of a problem than he is right now.

The city south of Karakorum should NOT be razed either IMHO. It is hindu and kan work lots of 3coin coastal tiles. IF we add the FP to Karakorum the maintenance will be minimal and can help support/grow cottages for Karakorum and with the High food (sheep) can really whip out everything it needs.

mmmmm do you mean Hannibal?

No... I mean what I said, Brennus... Brennus got Hindu spread to one of his cities during my set. It would be great if we can either make Brennus our opponent soon (take his land and vacate ours) or make him our biggest ally (as he is farthest away by land route). For him to become our ally Hindu he must become ... + every city with it brings $$$ so if only he spread it like wildfire and not become hindu would really help us.

On the other hand I am starting to think we need another game plan.
Our original is not going to work anymore I think, which was to take out GK and let Gandhi settle it. Find ourselves a new home and settle that for us... Then allow/hope for gandhi to take over our old home.
This would in my mind make Gandhi big and powerfull... but... how are we going to make this work? I think if we have to start over someplace else (without libraries and such! cause they allways get destroyed), I think they AI would really run away from us, not giving us the opportunity later to stop anyone from going space.

Hannibal is really running right now and needs to be stopped, how do we manage that without upsetting our friend Washington?

Any bright ideas on the Scientist and what to do with him?
Priest we can burn on Devine Right, but I am affraid we cannot force it beeing founded in Nadiros.

Just an idea if our finances get desperate. Put Haithabu on wealth but only if we are desperate.

Hmz, I think I would put it to Berserkers if we need money. Razing a few cities bring in plenty of money... but lets keep this suggestion in mind.

Hannibal vs Gandhi is not much of a problem. Gandhi is real powerfull :crazyeye:

for some odd reason and would repel an infation from Hannibal with ease (I think/hope)

Gandhi and Mansa have one simular problem, they be tech whores... They trade with most everyone as soon as they meet. Thereby accumulating "you traded with my worst enemy" points a lot. Or I think that is it...

Cosmichail · Mar 20, 2007

Lots of good points namliaM. I can see wasting swords from a logistics pov however when we only have five of them and one is CR2/combat I, well I hate to loose him. How many swords could you even afford to loose with so few. Cats yes more expensive but in the long run swords offer upgrades to berserkers (auto amphibious included) and eventually grens. Cats upgrade to cannon which is a long ways off.

In other words I think we need a bigger better army than that to take on GK as am confused as to why harbour when we are planning for war. Why not swords that will turn into berserker once CS if discovered. (health can be alleviated by trade) Personally I can see the harbour for increased revenue more so. That's just me....$$$$$ (our trait and all)

GP farm

How much more use can we get out of it. It seems contrary to our trait and cottages will keep our economy going and speed up science. We could leave some farms and still double as GP farm/commerce center. Combo works good too and for it to give us Great People fast we will need National Epic.

Great People

As to scientist maybe lightbulb education for liberalism slingshot. Not likely with Hannibal around so if we get him hopefully he can lightbulb something useful. (probably philosophy if we don't have it) I thought too we were staying away from Meditation/philosophy but at some point we got meditation??

If we get GPriest then for sure DR although we will have to manually still research some of it as he doesn't give the whole thing. EDIT: Again trying to get Islam could be a crapshoot since we aren't the tech leader. Second thought: why not just settle him in Haithabu for the 2h5gold instead. Haithabu could use the extra hammers and being the highest commerce city would benefit.

Razing

Concur that city south of Karakorum is a good city and we should keep it. Again razing doesn't seem an option for all cities (maybe a few) as we both agree the AI will settle like crazy there. (we can leave them some nice desert)

Brennus

Yes I see that he has one city Hindu. He will likely take advantage of that and build temple for happy and maybe monastery for culture. But not likely he will spread it if I think that's what you are saying. I think we will have to take him out to get those cities Hindu or find some method to get OB which has a "snowballs chance in hell" if you ask me. EDIT: second thought is if AI thinks FR in the long term then he may well spread Hinduism to gain culture/happy when FR kicks in. I know I always think that way.

Relocation

We are getting to point in the game if we restart we are likely to fall behind and not have any infuence on the game anymore. How are we going to get Gandhi to take our cities without the other AI screwing it up? good question?

We will have our UU soon and should use it to the fullest. Let's amass a fairly large army take out Khaaaan if we so desire or go after Hannibal. Hannibal is tough as we will need plenty of ships to get to him. With galleys it's not easy and will need a ton of them. We are talking about taking on Brennus/Hannibal but for now we just can't do it yet. GK yes with a few more troops and some strong berserkers. Remember too we can attack amphibious so not as to expose troops on land however cities with strong defense make that difficult.

Washington

We could change that by converting him but that would involve building missionaries. Sometimes it can take several tries too so that would involve a lot of hammer investment (since they cost the same as swords). Only thing is we do have shrine hurting for money so improving that would help. (since we are considering getting Brennus under impossible odds Washington is worth the investment.)

Again we can't really plan until we get optics to see what other landmasses there are. If we find a good spot to start or sit it out then again it involves hammer investment and diverts from the military.

Short term Goals:

1. Improve army and attack Khan
2. Get optics and send caravel out to find out what's out there.
3. Improve our science to keep up with Hannibal
4. Get GW to join in Ganesha and vegetarian diet. (just an idea)

Long term

Astronomy/chemistry for navy superiority.

Can't think of anything else as the game is liquid.

Just wondering right now Gandhi's only friend is Washington. Is there some way we can use him to help Gandhi. Any ideas?????

bobrath · Mar 21, 2007

Only idea for using GW to assist Ghandi would be to give techs to him by osmosis. IE gift it to GW and hope he'll trade or sell it to Ghandi.

namliaM · Mar 21, 2007

Cosmic said:
Cats yes more expensive but in the long run swords offer upgrades to berserkers (auto amphibious included) and eventually grens.

I am not to concerned with upgrades atm, we simply dont have the cash to do so... but... you are right... Sword => Beserker => Gren is much faster, better upgrade than Cat => Cannon.
however we can field 10 cats or 12 swords. Where the swords are more powerfull to boot! The difference is noticable, in particular when facing low numbers of defenders inside the city... sacrificing a sword is much better.
However we are close to Berserkers so all that is a mute subject I think...

cosmic said:
why harbour when we are planning for war.

You are right again :sad:

Health is nice for more commerce, but we dont need/want commerce right now, FOCUS, we are at war and need units (Beserkers) ASAP and plenty of them...

cosmic said:
How much more use can we get out of it.

You are right (again), tho in this case I was just repeating our earlier plans... I think I agree with you on this subject. Tho, FOCUS, do one or the other, not both. we need 10 GPP just to keep up with Nadiros...

GS will bulb Education & PP before Philosophy once we have paper. Tho getting an acadamy might be in our best intrest, but I have to do the math.
GS will give (IIRC) ~2500 beakers towards Education OR 6 (9 with representation) beakers/turn when settled OR 50% bonus to Haithabu

To make good the potential 9 beakers, Haithabu has to generate 18 raw beakers. At 50% research is 36 raw commerce.
When giving 10 beakers bonus on an acadamy it will take 250 turns to get back our investment. Easy math... but has to be done...

GPriest then for sure DR ... why not just settle him in Haithabu for the 2h5gold instead.

Well... Getting DR would be mainly for trade bait not so much for Islam. If hannibal gets there before we do... no biggy, as long as he doesnt trade it around!
Settling the GP would be an option but NOT in Haithabu I think, the synergy with Nadiros (and the shrine) is much bigger, i.e. needing only the (future) bank in Nadiros not in Haithabu. Also we could at one point add Wallstreet there, while Haithabu would get Oxford.

cosmic said:
Brennus

EDIT: second thought is if AI thinks FR

I have seen AI spread religion like mad once the have Liberalism... they do seem to understand the religion = Happy rule....

We will have our UU soon and should use it to the fullest.

Fullest = Amphibious attacks on coastal cities and razing them.
I dont think we can do this against huge culture while facing LBs on the other side. So we have 2 options...
1) Wait for Frigates to bomb from the water
2) Use cats, thus land attacks
I think 1 takes to long to go after Khaaan while 2 is not prefered when going after Hannibal (or any other AI).

cosmic said:
Sometimes it can take several tries

I think with the second religion to a city (there is a thread out there someplace) you still have 100% chance. Odds drop for the 3rd and greater religions..... On Washington & helping Gandhi... How about (ultimatly) driving Washington to Gandhi? Try and get them in a PA??
Yes techs cost 150% but they get 200% research power FOR SURE in particular in the later game the "I would rather win the game" thing starts kicking in, this will hamper trading.
We would have to declare war on Washington at some point to rack up the Mutual struglle points. AND raze/pillage Washington to hell and back once spaceparts start becomming an issue.

cosmic said:
Short term Goals:

1. Improve army and attack Khan
2. Get optics and send caravel out to find out what's out there.
3. Improve our science to keep up with Hannibal
4. Get GW to join in Ganesha and vegetarian diet. (just an idea)

1. Reverse that, I think I will take those 2 workers of his hands now and improve our army after that.
3. Maybe, or cut him down to a proper size.
4. What?

I am planning to finish my set this evening and am planning on taking those workers. Leaves you folks a small window to convince me otherwize, if you dont agree.

bobrath · Mar 21, 2007

Dunno that a PA is a better alternative - if only because it would force us into an always war with GW then as well. Keep him as the switzerland in our battle to the stars - small but useful.

Cosmichail · Mar 21, 2007

4. What?

Get him to Hinduism (Ganesha is a Hindu God and they are vegetarians lol)

Go for it namliaM grab the workers as we need them and we should be able to hold out until beserkers come on line.

Rather than keep up with Hannibal I agree cut him down to size is better. We will need frigates/galleons for him.

Looking forward to your finish. Also I agree with Bob on PA then we war with two civs all the time. Plus that isn't likely any time soon since Gandhi/Washington are cautious. They need to be friendly and Hannibal not liking him might influence GW being both confucians. Now if we could GW into Judaism that might bring Gandhi/GW a lot closer.

namliaM · Mar 21, 2007

FYI: I played, report comming up...

Edit: declaring war on GW would make for the mutual struggle thing going... upping their relationship
About "any time soon" come on it will be ages before PA even comes into the picture, maybe GW drops to FR removing the diplo minus for religion...
To early to speculate I think, but an option to keep in mind?

Cosmichail · Mar 21, 2007

come on it will be ages before PA even comes into the picture, maybe GW drops to FR removing the diplo minus for religion...

That's for sure either fascism or communism is needed and I wasn't aware that PA's were enabled. I laugh as you say "come on" a lot too. In our MP game you said it a few times when loosing at good odds. Funny thing is I tend to say that too and scream at AI "come on 90% odds and I loose"... Come on 1 turn to Oracle and HC gets it......Come on caravel sinks my galleon.......(main thing is we are having fun with this one)

It's liquid and anything can happen but I tend to think the relationship will go sour before it improves because of Hannibal/confucianism. Gandhi still has to meet the others (Buddhist block) and something tells me that won't go well. If we could he needs to know them irregardless as wouldn't this improve teching overall?????

EDIT: refresh, refresh, refresh

namliaM · Mar 21, 2007

First off the save

And

Spoiler Autolog :

And after declaring war on khaaan while moving 1 sword SE to capture the worker, this is what I see.... I expect the Cat will come to cause Colatoral but... that is all in the game aint it?

Our warlord chariot who is part of that stack moves along the red arrow to capture the worker and go back to the stack. Nothing will capture the worker anyway... Come to think of it, it could/should have retreated into our own territory to save a coin or 2.... It wasnt going to join in the battle anyway...

The battle for Otrar was a big disappointment to me, but its due to it beeing on a hill I guess...

We got 2 retreats on cats, lost 1 cat and I sacrificed a combat 1 sword (yes 2xp), which I didnt see us upgrading anyway, unless it got extreemly lucky and won getting 8 or so XP. Unfortunatly no luck...
But all in all losing 1 cat + 1 sword both at bad odds I might add then cleaning up getting 4 workers total and razing a city... not a bad deal...

The 2 workers from Otrar went to chop some forrests due NW of Otrar, one worker couldnt flee the scene when a Keshik showed up, losing the worker unfortunatly

. Also the Keshik pillaged a farm near Uppsala before a spear could clean up (at heavy! damage).

We got bureaucracy and I didnt revolt, bad idea?! I dont know... but I wanted some High XP Berserkers... revolting will mean 2 Berserkers in 5 turns instead of 2 in 7 turns. Or 4 in 10 instead of 3 in 10 from Nadiros and with Theocracy they still have 5XP for CR2. I think revolting is a good idea.... in particular since Haithabu is not contributing much (8 turns for 1 Berserker) and all others right now are still working the forge.

While chopping or actually even before doing so... The worker gives us some important intel, a galley + Trireme are on their way. This prompts me to whip the Berserker in Haithabu to get it to Birka in time, one never knows what is inside (long live patch 2.08!)
The galley stops over in Sicca and parks a turn outside of Birka before landing ....

We lose the Berserker :cry:

but it is clean up after that for a catapult + Chariot.
The landing in turn 231 was not the last thing to happen tho.... nearly so...

Offcourse I cleaned up the Keshik intruder I mentioned earlier. And started moving our stack towards our next target (clock wize) Samarqand. Where we are welcomed by 2 Catapults.
These are appearently rather hard to kill since both the sword and the Berserker end up completly trashed and barely surviving

A spear and XBox go to cover the mortaly wounded Berserker.
I bombed Samarqand to 0% but the odds dont look good IMHO. I would wait 1 turn before striking maybe even wait for the Berserker that is heading to the front (there in 3-4 turns) by way of galley. This gives time to our wounded Cats (the retreated cats from Otrar)+Sword+Berserker to heal as well.
I suggest keeping it and pillaging around the Plains tiles as we will be farming over those... It can pay for itself by working the Hammlet (IIRC) on the 1 grass it can work + some coastal tiles and offcourse its Hindu.

This ends my report for my set, now on to the handover...
I have been running 0% science since we got Burocracy, while working on Optics, we are now 7 turns away at 100% running -69GPT while having 402 cash in the bank. Capturing Samarqant will generate enough to keep 100% going for the discovery of Optics.
I forget to check for trades during this set... Sorry, maybe we can get something for Buro I dont know.

We have not yet popped the Great Person, we are just a few turns away from it tho....

There are some galleys on our shore... near Birka!

GK's Galley dropped of the Keshik + Chariot and has been there ever since.
Gandhi's Galley has been there for atleast 4 or 5 turns doing nothing much, but keep an eye on it! Also note the fact that Gandhi is Floating Caravels now!

I think we can place one more city up north....

it will be able to work 6 grassland cottages and add some Windmills to the hills for food + hammers. Some farmed plains for some more hammers. A mediocre city but worth getting I think. Also chop those trees before settling there.... And chop anything outside of BFCs like west and south of Bjorgvin.

I founded the Orange city, Tonsberg. It needs radical chopping and cottaging I think. The work on the spice near Birka was obviously interupted, so there is still a worker working there to finish it. Here is a shot of both Tonsberg and Roskilde.

I relieved the archer, heading for Tonsberg, from Nadiros which is on stagnate right now to work the most hammers. The Berserker is heading for the galley and can be at the front in 3 turns (attacking from the galley!)

But we may need more time if we want to heal up our stack.

And finaly...

Nadiros currently on stagnate with 1 sick.

Birka is losing the culture battle over the gems! Which is why I whipped the library, While working the barracks let it regrow and whip a Monastary in place. That should hold the border a while untill we pop our borders.
Maybe a little later we want the Temple there to, every little bit helps.

Our lost Trireme I allmost disbanded it as it is cought in nowhere lands.... there is nothing we can do with it.... But I didnt want to disband it just yet and leave it up to the team to deside.

Roster
namliaM -- +1 gmt (Actually 0 atm due to DST) > Started war on Khaaan
Greyfox -- +8 gmt > Out and about UP?
Maquis -- -7 gmt > Can pick it up if he likes, or On Deck if Fox shouts out.
Bobrath -- -5 gmt > Will he take Karakorum?
Healium -- +1 gmt -- Still on Auto skip, speak up if you want back in the rotation!
Scowler -- gmt
Frankcor-- -5 gmt <Lurker>
Cosmichail -- -5gmt

namliaM · Mar 21, 2007

Cosmichail said:
I wasn't aware that PA's were enabled.

I am not sure if they are.... I didnt even check ! *point to make someone go check*

LOL @ refresh, report is up now....

Cosmichail · Mar 21, 2007

Checked PA's are not enabled so forget that idea.

As to your turnset mmmmm.

The battle for Otrar was a big disappointment to me, but its due to it beeing on a hill I guess...

Aaaah yeah hills tend to really skew the battle in favour of the lbm.

Why would you go attack cities on hills when Karakorum I think is the easier target. Berserkers have a hard enough time to deal with lbm's on hill but using swords??? I never have used swords against longbows except once when I had a CR3/Combat IV/leadership sword which took it out easily (on flat land). Ok fine the battle of Otrar is finished then you trek across his land to find what "another hill city". Odds with sword 7.3%. Even wasting swords with those odds are useless as the lbm likely won't even take a scratch.
(all in all the battle at Otrar didn't go as badly it could have)

The only thing that would give us grief in Karakorum is the crossbow. A nice counter to that I believe is a CB. So I'm mystified by your impatience. Going for the capitol hits the AI hard and would immediately curtail his abilities to cope with our attack. These cities you are attacking now only good for razing and almost need to destroy army to take them??? (especially with swords)

I am also surprised by the need to settle Tonsberg. What because of Hannibal? Then talk of settling near Bjorgvin? We are at war so we should be only building military units. We could have built a CB in Bjorgvin to compliment mini stack. Why incur more maintenance when we are planning to keep some of GK's cities. One stray Keshik and that city is gone but I do see you are sending an archer to garrison it which wouldn't hold if a Keshik attacked. A waste of hammers at this point.

Bureaucracy

Berserkers in 3 turns instead of what 4 so quantity is better than quality although I do like the idea of Berserkers starting out with 7 xp points than 5 and had we taken Karakorum would have the pyramids that much sooner for eventual representation. (if it benefits us which would with Karakorum)

Spices

I could have sworn Scowler had a worker putting a plantation there. More food more whip right? They still aren't hooked up and will help with happy and eventually health with a grocer. It seems too that Birka has bullseye on it's forehead too as every AI beelines it there. Maybe that's why you left spices for protective cover on landings. That's one thing I certainly can understand but not your tactics.

My personal tactics is to go straight for the capitol and allow travel easier by removing culture and putting GK on the defensive big time. Especially considering his capitol is lightly defended. Now we are somewhat on the defensive and our army is going to have a tough time with gold city. (don't remember name) but not worth wasting a bunch of units for. (which are in short supply with only one major production city) Karakorum otoh would have been better. It's not like we need gold.

Got that off my chest and looks like we're committed to gold city meaning it will take that much longer to get Karakorum the city that could get us out of the crapper either thru GP's or cottages. You say that it has to be either commerce or GP farm and can't be both. Kind of linear in your thinking as it seems the AI did exactly that.

Good luck to the next player I think you are going to need it. I would pull those troops once healed and reorganize stack then go after Karakorum but that's me. A couple of HA's for pillage duty would help too so we can take out iron/horses at some point.

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