SGOTM 04 - Trash Team

pigswill · Mar 8, 2007

Thoughts on short term goals. Couple of axes, WB for exploring, connect Nidaros and Uppsala to build axes then mine gold. Techwise probably pottery, sailing, writing.

Lets explore a bit more before getting too involved in details of implementation.

remconius · Mar 8, 2007

Tried to make another dotmap this time with priority numbers. Let's discuss which ones to adjust and I'll update the picture.

pigswill · Mar 8, 2007

It will depend on howmany resources we have to allocate to barb bashing. City #1 certainly seems the obvious one to found next. It will then depend on whether we can get a settler out in time to stop GK pinching City#2 (or a bit south to grab the gold).

cabert · Mar 8, 2007

city n°1 is OK, but could wait (= become n°2)
city n°2 isn't perfect. It should be city n°1, but this placement shuts down the western fish. I don't like giving up a fish.
I'd still go for it first, it's the horse that GK will want to grab.
Maybe we could stay on land, settling 2E of the proposed location?

Cam_H · Mar 8, 2007

[Edit] Images removed. [/Edit]

Rupert RIP. Grand opening of the Nidaros-Uppsala Highway!

Pre-Turn

All looks good.
Pottery @ 100% :science:

Notice that Uppsala is sensitive to :yuck:

.

Turn 1: 2020BC

Rupert avoids Barbarian Warriors as he skates around the South East. Pigs are put in their Pasture.

Turn 2: 1990BC

The Axe is completed in Nidaros, and a Work Boat is queued up. Rupert continues to skate around the Barbarian Warriors, and with a good look at the South East concludes that there’s no fourth tribe on the island.

Turns 3-6: 1960BC-1870BC

Worker goes to Uppsala's eastern Gold and begins Mining.

Rupert gets cornered by two Barbarians (the other out of screen) … RIP

Turn 7: 1840BC

Pottery > Writing

Nidaros: Workboat (heads South - there's unchartered land {island?} to the South West) > Granary

Turns 8-12: 1810BC-1690BC

Praise Odin! Gandhi founds a religion! Judaism is FiaDL, Gandhi adopts Organised Religion and converts to Judaism.

A Barbarian Warrior approaches Nidaros, and our resident Axeman goes out to meet him.

Turn 13: 1660BC

Uppsala completes its Worker. As it's not hooked up to Copper, I opt for a Granary. Uppsala’s Worker joins his counterpart and works on the Gold.

Our Axe kills the encroaching Barbarian Warrior.

Our Work Boat spots Mongolian borders on the south east peninsula ... he's expanding, albeit not towards the Vikings.

Turn 14-17: 1630BC-1540BC

Nidaros completes its whip-free Granary and begins on an Axe.

The Work Boat to the south cannot explore further because of Mongolian borders and no Writing for Open Borders agreement.

Uppsala’s defending Axeman defeats two unwise Barbarian Warriors (XP 2/2).

Turns 18-19: 1510BC-1480BC

Nidaros: Axeman > Settler

Turn 20: 1450BC

The Workers complete the Nidaros-Uppsala Highway! Praise be to Thor! Pigs, Gold, Clams and Copper are shared between the two populations - which brings the Vikings great joy and vitality! :viking:

Consider military build in Uppsala or suffer :hammers:

decay on Granary? Stick with Granary.

Uppsala produces its second population point and begins working on the Gold Mine.

Turn 21: 1420BC

Worker hooks up Corn.

Writing is in (Libraries, Open Border agreements).

Turn only partially progressed - can swap technology to Sailing. Can queue swap in a Library in Nidaros, grow the population, then whip out the Settler.

The Save

Turn Log:

Spoiler :

remconius · Mar 8, 2007

Good stuff, Cam :thumbsup:

Too bad Rupert didnt make it. He served his purpose and will be remembered in the annals of the Vikings.

Good thing Gandhi finally has a religion. Let's hope it spreads to us so we can convert GK before he gets Theocracy. Uppsala would benefit from a Library. All the commerce from the Gold mines will be great with Library and we could use the 6 food from the corn to assign 2 scientists. An Axe might be more necessary in the short term.

Nidaros could build another Settler, or axe and then settler.

Tech, let's go for MC or Sailing.

Should we sign OB with GK to sail to G??

Cam_H · Mar 8, 2007

Thanks remco - but it was kind of slow.

I agree with the plan for Uppsala, although I'm inclined to agree that we need a couple more cities as a priority, so certainly one more Axe.

If it were my game, I would certainly open borders with Genghis to get the Work Boat around to the western side of the island at least. We can cancel if we see Mongolian Settlers heading to our north, but that is exceptionally unlikely for the forseeable future.

I like City "5" too - but not sure if we can settle on "?" due to proximity to Gandhi's second city (Bombay? Madras? Can't recall!).

MrMahk · Mar 8, 2007

GJ Cam! Sorry to hear about Rupert- maybe our scouting WB can be renamed in his honor?

I agree city 1 should be next. No doubt Genghis will be expanding towards those horses. It's very likely he will get one of them, but we should at least try for one, because site 1 is a good city anyway, and it is much easier to pillage him (if and when we go to war) if he has one source of horses rather than two.

Something else I noticed about Remco's dotmap- almost all of those cities (which I agree with their placements) would be coastal. This convinces me that we should go for the Colossus.

Research-wise I say sailing first, just so that there's a chance of Judiasm spreading to us ASAP. MC sounds good for after that, though.

Lastly, I say yes to open borders with (Edit: yes, Cam) ~~Gandhi~~ Genghis - if we are careful he doesn't sneak a settler by. Might as well stay on good terms with him and we can do more scouting.

Cam_H · Mar 8, 2007

Thanks for all the "good jobs" ... really it was nothing ... really!

A slow round where there was no whipping or chopping - just working the resources and hooking them up. I bravely took the Axe out of Nidaros and won a battle that would require extraordinary bad luck to lose ... and that never happens in Civ4 ... :shifty:

Anyway, I've left Cabert with a few decisions to make on the pre-turn ... including a nice big Capital with a Granary!

I was starting to fear that Gyathaar had somehow edited Gandhi's tech flavour away from religious options by some sneaky programming trick that 'we mere humans' could not grasp. Anyway, it seems likely to me that we've got two religious nuts out there on another island.

Mark - I assume you mean Genghis?

patagonia · Mar 9, 2007

If he does sneak a settler by, it'll just be for a city hard to defend and easy to capture so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

Signing OB with Genghis will net him -1 to -4 with Gandhi, but I think the need for exploration outweighs the damage that'll do India in the longer term. Gandhi will still tech trade when annoyed anyway.

With regard to the dotmap Cam's posted, I think that necessitates a tech order of sailing > IW > MC? - sailing for trade, exploration and food, then IW for jungle clearing (and swords - train them up on the barb city near spot 5?) followed by a resumption of the beeline. Although getting alphabet out there early might speed the global tech pace, we've got no way of giving it to Gandhi himself and with only GK out there that we know of right now I'm not sure it's worth the research turns.

cabert · Mar 9, 2007

Cam_H said:
Thanks for all the "good jobs" ... really it was nothing ... really!

A slow round where there was no whipping or chopping - just working the resources and hooking them up. I bravely took the Axe out of Nidaros and won a battle that would require extraordinary bad luck to lose ... and that never happens in Civ4 ...

Anyway, I've left Cabert with a few decisions to make on the pre-turn ... including a nice big Capital with a Granary!

I was starting to fear that Gyathaar had somehow edited Gandhi's tech flavour away from religious options by some sneaky programming trick that 'we mere humans' could not grasp. Anyway, it seems likely to me that we've got two religious nuts out there on another island.

Mark - I assume you mean Genghis?

Thanks a lot Cam

What I suggest for our granary capital is :
- switch to library
- grow to size 6 (should be fast, 1 turn is maybe enough)
- whip the library
- overflow towards the settler
- switch to an axe, while growing back to size 4 at least
- finish the axe + settler

What I suggest for mega gold city is simply grow it while building the granary, then library.
A gold mine is giving enough hammers to avoid using the whip IMHO. THe granary is needed for health.
After that it's library time (to get the cultural expansion for the other corn).

About techs, it's time for sailing now, if we're going to settle on the coast.
What the consensus about the next city(ies)?
I'd go as far south as possible.

edit : one more thing, we need to explore north too!
I suggest teching to sailing, whipping (yes whipping) a trading post in nidaros, then training a galley for this task.

remconius · Mar 9, 2007

GJ Cam! Sorry to hear about Rupert- maybe our scouting WB can be renamed in his honor?

Rumour has it that Rubert fled in true Rupert-like chicken fashion and jumped on the Workboat as it was passing to avoid encounter with the two Barbarians. Some people think he was killed, but in fact Rupert lives on the exploration Fishing boat "The Fearless Chicken"

I cant decide about OB. We really need to get round GK and explore G's and other people's borders. At the same time it will make life tougher on GK to make peace with G. G will have the -1 towards GK, you traded with our worst enemy. As an alternative, we dont sign OB and build a city on the west coast and explore from there. This would have my preference eventhough it takes longer. In that case we build city 2 (including horses) next, as Cabert also suggests, but do make it coastal and build a Workboat first. Then we can continue to explore.

We should also found city 1 asap to grab the other horse resource. Let's hope Judaism spreads to us so we can convert GK to support Gandhi.

remconius · Mar 9, 2007

cabert said:
Thanks a lot Cam
What I suggest for our granary capital is :
- switch to library
- grow to size 6 (should be fast, 1 turn is maybe enough)
- whip the library
- overflow towards the settler
- switch to an axe, while growing back to size 4 at least
- finish the axe + settler

What I suggest for mega gold city is simply grow it while building the granary, then library.
A gold mine is giving enough hammers to avoid using the whip IMHO. THe granary is needed for health.
After that it's library time (to get the cultural expansion for the other corn).

About techs, it's time for sailing now, if we're going to settle on the coast.
What the consensus about the next city(ies)?
I'd go as far south as possible.

edit : one more thing, we need to explore north too!
I suggest teching to sailing, whipping (yes whipping) a trading post in nidaros, then training a galley for this task.

Good plans Cabert!

A few questions:
Does Upsala need a granary for health? Or will the pigs, corn and clams give enough healthiness for now. It only needs to grow to size 4 in the short term. Perhaps a library first would be of greater benefit.

Let's send the current workboat North for exploration of that area, and continue exploration of the South with a workboat to be built in new city "2". This will avoid the penalty between G and GK. You can still whip the TP though

cabert · Mar 9, 2007

remconius said:
Rumour has it that Rubert fled in true Rupert-like chicken fashion and jumped on the Workboat as it was passing to avoid encounter with the two Barbarians. Some people think he was killed, but in fact Rupert lives on the exploration Fishing boat "The Fearless Chicken"

I will rename the work boat to "swimming chicken".

I cant decide about OB. We really need to get round GK and explore G's and other people's borders. At the same time it will make life tougher on GK to make peace with G. G will have the -1 towards GK, you traded with our worst enemy. As an alternative, we dont sign OB and build a city on the west coast and explore from there. This would have my preference eventhough it takes longer. In that case we build city 2 (including horses) next, as Cabert also suggests, but do make it coastal and build a Workboat first. Then we can continue to explore.

I suggest :
- checking if GK knows G already or not.
- If not, I sign the OB, pass through his land, close borders again.
I suspect there isn't a lot to see there anyway, but it would bring the WB into position for city 5. We probably need to build a few triremes to prevent gandhi from destroying our fishing nets at this point.

We should also found city 1 asap to grab the other horse resource. Let's hope Judaism spreads to us so we can convert GK to support Gandhi.

So
city 1 : capital
City 2 : midas
city 3 : seahorse
city 4 : landhorse
city 5 : city 5 (duh!)

Are we set about those?

cabert · Mar 9, 2007

remconius said:
Good plans Cabert!

A few questions:
Does Upsala need a granary for health? Or will the pigs, corn and clams give enough healthiness for now. It only needs to grow to size 4 in the short term. Perhaps a library first would be of greater benefit.

Let's send the current workboat North for exploration of that area, and continue exploration of the South with a workboat to be built in new city "2". This will avoid the penalty between G and GK. You can still whip the TP though

good points.
About the WB, I thought about sending it north too. But I think we have an opportunity now to cross GK's land. This opportunity won't show up again IMHO. So I'd rather use it.

About the granary, we won't need more health until we're size 6. Maybe library first is better then.
And about hammer decay, it's not a problem. For buildings the hammers last 50 turns before strating to decay. Enough time to slow build the library.

remconius · Mar 9, 2007

cabert said:
I suggest :
- checking if GK knows G already or not.
- If not, I sign the OB, pass through his land, close borders again.
I suspect there isn't a lot to see there anyway, but it would bring the WB into position for city 5. We probably need to build a few triremes to prevent gandhi from destroying our fishing nets at this point.

Good strategy for exploration. And what if they do know eachother?

cabert said:
So
city 1 : capital
City 2 : midas
city 3 : seahorse
city 4 : landhorse
city 5 : city 5 (duh!)

Are we set about those?

Confused about cities 3 and 4. Are those the ones I numbered 1 and 2 :confused:

or 2 and 1? :confused:

I think we should grab the SE horse first (city 2) and then the closest horse (city 1). I'd like to have both cities on the coast if we go for Colossus. But I do agree that moving city 2 east two squares is better to block GK and allows us to grab the fish (by settling on the spices).

That would make it:
city 1 : Nidaros (capital)
City 2 : Uppsala (midas)
city 3 : City "2" (landhorse)
city 4 : City '1" (seahorse)
city 5 : city "5" (duh!)
City 6 : City "3"
City 7 : City "4"

cabert · Mar 9, 2007

remconius said:
Good strategy for exploration. And what if they do know eachother?

then the WB goes back north, I guess
We also have the option to declare war! I suspect GK doesn't have sailing yet = no boats. We could just sail through his lands :lol:

. with 2/3 axes we could capture a worker or 2 and sue for peace

.

Confused about cities 3 and 4. Are those the ones I numbered 1 and 2
or 2 and 1?

sorry about that, I was trying to be funny :rolleyes:

I think we should grab the SE horse first (city 2) and then the closest horse (city 1). I'd like to have both cities on the coast if we go for Colossus. But I do agree that moving city 2 east two squares is better to block GK and allows us to grab the fish (by settling on the spices).

That would make it:
city 1 : Nidaros (capital)
City 2 : Uppsala (midas)
city 3 : City "2" (landhorse)
city 4 : City '1" (seahorse)
city 5 : city "5" (duh!)
City 6 : City "3"
City 7 : City "4"

that's it.
If we're OK with that, I can start playing in 3 hours.

patagonia · Mar 9, 2007

Dunno if this is too late or not, but a trireme would be better for exploration than a galley. The last thing we want is to run into an Indian trireme miles from home and get sunk, requiring us to send a boat all the way out there again.

I'd rather give Genghis a -1 by opening borders than declare on him this early. He'll build enough units as it is without us pushing him onto a war footing so soon.

And finally: where can I download the relevant HOF mod for this game? I've had a look, but don't seem to be able to find it :confused:

cabert · Mar 9, 2007

patagonia said:
Dunno if this is too late or not, but a trireme would be better for exploration than a galley. The last thing we want is to run into an Indian trireme miles from home and get sunk, requiring us to send a boat all the way out there again.

I'd rather give Genghis a -1 by opening borders than declare on him this early. He'll build enough units as it is without us pushing him onto a war footing so soon.

And finally: where can I download the relevant HOF mod for this game? I've had a look, but don't seem to be able to find it

It's certainly early enough.
My idea for a galley was to possibly move a settler on an island somewhere.

OK, I got it.

preturn :
- Gandhi knows GK. Their annoyed already, for no reason :crazyeyes:. It seems senseless to try to mke GK a friend of Gandhi, so I opened borders with GK.
- I switched both our cities to libraries.
- I move uppsala's defender and the other free axe both SW.
- I switched to sailing (full speed ahead = 8 turns)

turn 1 :
-uppsala's defender kills a wandering barb warrior. He sees Saxon : size 2 already, defended by 2 warriors. We could keep the city, but It would shut down 1 clam and 1 fish. No good (+ without IW the city is worthless)
- I whip Nidaros' library for 3 pop.

turn 2 : Nidaros is back to the settler (19 hammers overflow!) . I move troops towards Saxon.

turn 3 : I move troops towards Saxon.

turn 4 : attack! No more saxon.

turn 5 : 1 axe heals, the other fogbusts. Nidaros is size 4 again. 2nd gold mine is ready in Uppsala.

turn 6 : swimming chicken sails near karakorum.

turn 7 : sailing in (a bit of commerce sped it up!). I switch to IW. I know you guys want MC, but IW is a prereq for it, and without IW no other city is going to be any value.

turn 8 : fogbusting axe finds another barb city.

turn 9 : uppsala is size 3 = working 2 gold mines. Swimming Chicken (SC) finds Turfan.

turn 10: 1 more axe at our service. Nidaros is back in the settler business. Saxon killers move towards the next "victim".
This one is quite nice. I decide to let it grow to size 2.

turn 11: not much (axe moving, boat sailing)

turn 12: not much (axe moving, boat sailing)

turn 13: settler! I move it towards "city 2" site, but moved E squares inland (=East) TRading post started in Nidaros.

turn 14: Not much (settler moves, axes fogbust, SC sails). I set Nidaros into slow growth, high science mode : 2 scientists.

turn 15: Not much (settler moves, axes fogbust, SC sails).

turn 16: Not much (settler moves, axes fogbust, SC sails).

turn 17: IW in > MC

turn 18: Nidaros whips the trading post for 2 pop.

turn 19: Nidaros starts a trireme (6 turns). settler in place.

turn 20: Haithabu (horses, sugar) founded. starts a granary.

here is the known world :

remconius · Mar 9, 2007

Patagoina, here you can download the HOF mod:

HOF mod

SGOTM 04 - Trash Team

fly (one day)

Deity

fly (one day)

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Deity

Deity

Deity

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Deity

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Big mouth

Deity

Deity

Big mouth

Big mouth

Deity

Big mouth

Emperor

Big mouth

Deity

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