SGOTM 04 - Xteam
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Sorry for the delay of game -got caught up in some nasty work stuff.
Anyway - there doesn't seem to be much to do other than to set up for a major push on Hannibal or Washington - which isn't in the cards right now. I think we will be better positioned in 10-15 turns to make a landing in force if that is the way we want to go. So peace with Hannibal after reducing Thanae.
In the meantime we can get some factories built and research to State Property which appears to have some trade value yet while setting up the armies.
The big risk is that Hannibal will land in India. But since his naval capability is next to nil that eventuality seems remote.
I play it and post after 8:00PM EDT.
Anyway - there doesn't seem to be much to do other than to set up for a major push on Hannibal or Washington - which isn't in the cards right now. I think we will be better positioned in 10-15 turns to make a landing in force if that is the way we want to go. So peace with Hannibal after reducing Thanae.
In the meantime we can get some factories built and research to State Property which appears to have some trade value yet while setting up the armies.
The big risk is that Hannibal will land in India. But since his naval capability is next to nil that eventuality seems remote.
I play it and post after 8:00PM EDT.
Frederiksberg
Deity
I think there is a city that can be attacked from the safety of American territory. You might consider capturing and razing that one as well as capturing Thaenae.
After Communism it's probably a good idea to go for Electricity (trade for it?) and then Industrialization in order to get the tanks that should give us a decisive advantage in the war.
I suggest you keep building military in cities with military instructors, military academies or Heroic Epic. I think these are Bibracte (draft there every time it hits pop 7), New Sarai and Old Sarai.
Good luck!
After Communism it's probably a good idea to go for Electricity (trade for it?) and then Industrialization in order to get the tanks that should give us a decisive advantage in the war.
I suggest you keep building military in cities with military instructors, military academies or Heroic Epic. I think these are Bibracte (draft there every time it hits pop 7), New Sarai and Old Sarai.
Good luck!
And if we can find a way to pillage the Uranium to interrupt H's ship building capability?
Good luck Brother Bede.
Good luck Brother Bede.
As Bede implies, any landing force -- including one intended only for pillaging -- must be robust. I found that out the hard way.
However, I do agree that the western city near where I prepositioned a couple of infantry might be a possible target for a quick attack, raze, and retreat. Wouldn't encourage that it be tried unless the razing (and probably peace negotiated for) can be done before H has time to bring reinforcements.
BTW, where can I read something about why Kohlapur might flip to India?
However, I do agree that the western city near where I prepositioned a couple of infantry might be a possible target for a quick attack, raze, and retreat. Wouldn't encourage that it be tried unless the razing (and probably peace negotiated for) can be done before H has time to bring reinforcements.
BTW, where can I read something about why Kohlapur might flip to India?
Hokay - I started to play this four hours ago and have gotten through five turns - let's just say there has been a lot to think about.
The good news is that all, and I mean all, of Hannibal's navy has gone to Davy Jones' locker. He did manage to sneak a force onto the Kohlapur island and capture it even though I was able to put reinforcements in there before his attack, let's just say that the gods were unkind. But I was able to sink the entire fleet that delivered it before they could escape back to Carthage.
Kohlapur came back into our hands the next turn and is now open for Indian colonization if Gandhi would put some troops on boat and get over there. To enable that I have pulled the fleet away from the city that has his boats in it. I am hoping that if he can't see our destroyers he will risk sailing over there.
Thanae is now ours, and Hippo has been razed and no losses suffered in either battle. Hannibal did not counterattack at Hippo and the troops moved back into American lands or onto boats safely and are now healing in American waters or are on their way to Washington's border next to Carthage.
Unless Hannibal is hiding the bulk of his army where I can't see them I am beginning to think that a march on his capitol with the remaining amphib units plus some artillery with appropriate escort entering Punic lands from America is in order. All of the remaining upgrades are done, and we can deliver quite a bit more punch than I had expected and as near as I can tell he is officially gassed. An alternative would be to raze the town on his east coast that gives him access to his last unpillaged uranium source.
War weariness is an issue but a 10% cultural impost prevents any starvation, we lose a specialist here and there, but can still learn Communism for State Property in 6 turns or so and keep a positive balance in the treasury.
Since this plan represents a major departure from the original "sack a couple of cities and get a peace treaty with Hannibal" I thought to run it past the gang before proceeding.
The "in progress" for those who want to put their boots on the ground before sticking their oar in the water
And if I proceed do I burn or keep?
The good news is that all, and I mean all, of Hannibal's navy has gone to Davy Jones' locker. He did manage to sneak a force onto the Kohlapur island and capture it even though I was able to put reinforcements in there before his attack, let's just say that the gods were unkind. But I was able to sink the entire fleet that delivered it before they could escape back to Carthage.
Kohlapur came back into our hands the next turn and is now open for Indian colonization if Gandhi would put some troops on boat and get over there. To enable that I have pulled the fleet away from the city that has his boats in it. I am hoping that if he can't see our destroyers he will risk sailing over there.
Thanae is now ours, and Hippo has been razed and no losses suffered in either battle. Hannibal did not counterattack at Hippo and the troops moved back into American lands or onto boats safely and are now healing in American waters or are on their way to Washington's border next to Carthage.
Unless Hannibal is hiding the bulk of his army where I can't see them I am beginning to think that a march on his capitol with the remaining amphib units plus some artillery with appropriate escort entering Punic lands from America is in order. All of the remaining upgrades are done, and we can deliver quite a bit more punch than I had expected and as near as I can tell he is officially gassed. An alternative would be to raze the town on his east coast that gives him access to his last unpillaged uranium source.
War weariness is an issue but a 10% cultural impost prevents any starvation, we lose a specialist here and there, but can still learn Communism for State Property in 6 turns or so and keep a positive balance in the treasury.
Since this plan represents a major departure from the original "sack a couple of cities and get a peace treaty with Hannibal" I thought to run it past the gang before proceeding.
The "in progress" for those who want to put their boots on the ground before sticking their oar in the water
And if I proceed do I burn or keep?
Now that is what I call a real CivFanatic!!OK. Got a new computer.
Now, please remember, no Sims...
Sounds like good, organized, play, as always.Bede said:
If we're ready to go for Hannibal, let's go!
I am real concerned here about burning cities as Washington will probably swallow up the real estate before Gandhi can get his rear in gear. Keeping the cities may not help either, from a War Weariness point of view?
Is it plausible to make H's army the focus of our attacks and simply leave one of H's units in each city so that Gandhi could come and easily take them? Never tried anything like that before, especially since we can't get him to go to Kohlapur... 
The only other thing I can think of is to take the cities and then leave them open for Gandhi to come and claim?
Most encouraging, Bede.
Have you checked Bangalore recently for galleons?
My experience was that H kept considerable fire power hidden in his internal cities.
I notice that W's sole uranium is NW of NY. Does it make any sense to settle a city next to it and try the cultural aquisition trick again?
Now that Bede has upgraded our position, would we want peace with H before we get a tech in return?
How much longer is it reasonable to think that Kol will flip to G? Does it become any more or less likely as time passes?
I'm beginning to think that our plan to let Gandhi take over from H in general is simply not going to work. If that's so, then perhaps we should reconsider letting G have some of our cities and replace them with H's. That's beginning to look like the better bad plan to me. We'd probably want to get H under control first and be in a position to handle W and Izzie. To keep both options open, we would want to capture a couple of H's cities, rather than raze them.
Perhaps we make preparations to take Carthage and Thapsus while we wait to see if Kol flips.
Have you checked Bangalore recently for galleons?
My experience was that H kept considerable fire power hidden in his internal cities.
I notice that W's sole uranium is NW of NY. Does it make any sense to settle a city next to it and try the cultural aquisition trick again?
Now that Bede has upgraded our position, would we want peace with H before we get a tech in return?
How much longer is it reasonable to think that Kol will flip to G? Does it become any more or less likely as time passes?
I'm beginning to think that our plan to let Gandhi take over from H in general is simply not going to work. If that's so, then perhaps we should reconsider letting G have some of our cities and replace them with H's. That's beginning to look like the better bad plan to me. We'd probably want to get H under control first and be in a position to handle W and Izzie. To keep both options open, we would want to capture a couple of H's cities, rather than raze them.
Perhaps we make preparations to take Carthage and Thapsus while we wait to see if Kol flips.
Frederiksberg
Deity
Good news from the frontline.
Like CP I would like to keep the Carthaginian cities now that we will soon be able to adopt State Property. They should contribute to our empire. Carthage has several nice Wonders like The Kremlin and Notre Dame that we could use.
I don't think that Kolhapur will flip - I checked it in the previous save and mousing over the "City Nationality" didn't show any probability of revolt as it should if there was any chance that the city would flip.
Since New York is an old city it will be hard to compete culturally for this tile unless we can set off the culture bomb with a GA in the new city. We might consider improving the culture of Camulodunum to grab Izzys uranium.
If we go for the capture of Carthage we probably need to capture Thapsus as well as CP suggests in order to remove the cultural pressure that will otherwise be on Carthage. Think about building some workboats somewhere (Ning-Hsia?) so that we are ready to start working the sea resources the instant that Carthage comes out of revolt.
Maybe if WW goes crazy. The war would go a lot smoother if we had tanks but we still need to discover Electricity and Industrialization to get there. When we do a peace deal we could also demand that Hannibal makes peace with Gandhi
Like CP I would like to keep the Carthaginian cities now that we will soon be able to adopt State Property. They should contribute to our empire. Carthage has several nice Wonders like The Kremlin and Notre Dame that we could use.
I don't think that Kolhapur will flip - I checked it in the previous save and mousing over the "City Nationality" didn't show any probability of revolt as it should if there was any chance that the city would flip.
Cactus Pete said:
Since New York is an old city it will be hard to compete culturally for this tile unless we can set off the culture bomb with a GA in the new city. We might consider improving the culture of Camulodunum to grab Izzys uranium.
If we go for the capture of Carthage we probably need to capture Thapsus as well as CP suggests in order to remove the cultural pressure that will otherwise be on Carthage. Think about building some workboats somewhere (Ning-Hsia?) so that we are ready to start working the sea resources the instant that Carthage comes out of revolt.
Cactus Pete said:
Maybe if WW goes crazy. The war would go a lot smoother if we had tanks but we still need to discover Electricity and Industrialization to get there. When we do a peace deal we could also demand that Hannibal makes peace with Gandhi
Yes, but at this point, I would really like to see them contribute to Gandhi's empire.
However, I don't think he is too interested in going there either?
I think it is like this because H took it back from us and then Bede recaptured it. Until it is out of resistance, I don't think it shows flip probability?
I think we will need to make sure H has peace with Gandhi before we can make peace, otherwise, we can not protect him for 10 turns.
If Bede is correct that H is pretty well spent, and the power graph does show he has declined, perhaps we should just go after him with Infantry and Artillery and take whatever we can?
We'll need Tanks for Washington, unless we decide he will help Gandhi. Doesn't look like it to me at this point...
I've been here for some time and think it may be the only way to get the stubborn AI to gain some land, power and cities...
I'm Not Sure We Can Take All Of Carthage Without Risking A Domination Victory.
How much are we willing to give up on our continent?
"How much are we willing to give up on our continent?"
All of it eventually, if that will help India. The question is more 'when' than 'if'. Until we are confident that we can prevent W and Izzie from winning, it would be foolish to give up much, if any; thus, I raise the issue of taking over too much Carthaginian territory too quickly and gaining domination. If Kolhapur does flip to G, it could be a mute point (as he might well colonize the Carthaginian mainland from there, if we clear his way), but I have absolutely no understanding of the probabilities in play there.
All of it eventually, if that will help India. The question is more 'when' than 'if'. Until we are confident that we can prevent W and Izzie from winning, it would be foolish to give up much, if any; thus, I raise the issue of taking over too much Carthaginian territory too quickly and gaining domination. If Kolhapur does flip to G, it could be a mute point (as he might well colonize the Carthaginian mainland from there, if we clear his way), but I have absolutely no understanding of the probabilities in play there.
I don't think any of us have a grasp on those probabilities. As I see it right now it is going to come down to a three horse race Gandhi-Vikings-Spain. And the only reason to keep Spain in the game is to have a tech conduit to Gandhi.
I need to look at where we stand in the Domination numbers though. One thing we can do is reduce the population count of any newly acquired cities by slaving or starving if necessary and keep it low by making little or no investment in growth infrastructure for happiness or health.
iirc, we're near 46% in land area and 42% in pop, so we do have some breathing room. Izzie is second with 17% pop and 16% land area. Domination is 62% land, so I think we can take Carthage and just squeeze under the limit?
I think the fight with Washington is going to be a tough one and will require a lot of resources in troops and tech.
Perhaps we should begin to consider moving the Palace to Karakorum, or to Thapsus????
Good luck Brother Bede.
I think the fight with Washington is going to be a tough one and will require a lot of resources in troops and tech.
Perhaps we should begin to consider moving the Palace to Karakorum, or to Thapsus????
Good luck Brother Bede.
We should stay under the limit until we start nibbling on Washington. He and Hannibal and Gandhi split the remaining land between them and after a quick tile count Hannibal is smaller than Washington.
Another update:
Captured Carthage, now I have to hold it. Hannibal lost an artillery and four cavalry on two counterattacks (one attack on troops advancing from Washington's borders and another attack on the city itself) and another artilery unit in the city itself. Since he has no oil he has no tanks....and I can't find his navy without submersibles
State Property is in and the revolution over.
Gandhi slipped a frigate past the picket line in the north and will wreck a fishing net but then he can be dealt with. He has no settlers ready but still has a couple of frigates and galleons. He sent an ironclad out to investigate Kohlapur which is undefended for now, hopefully he will accept the invitation and move in as I have opened a lane for him to do so.
Hannibal and Gandhi are now at peace.
I have two more turns to play and will get them in tonight.
I think moving forward on Flight rather than the Industrialization track will be a good next choice for our scientists. Fighters in carriers and bombers in Carthage when we get Radio will be a big help to our suppression efforts and help us keep a longer range eye on Gandhi, rather than picketing the sea lanes.
The Buddhist bloc remains broken. Washington has adopted Hannibal's religion, Confucianism, and is trading a resource to Hannibal for Musicals, though he has not opened his borders yet. That is going to be a threat in the future. Once he opens his borders to Hannibal a vassalage agreement is not far behind I think. That could mean war with Washington before we are really ready, much depends on what the agreement includes.
Another update:
Captured Carthage, now I have to hold it. Hannibal lost an artillery and four cavalry on two counterattacks (one attack on troops advancing from Washington's borders and another attack on the city itself) and another artilery unit in the city itself. Since he has no oil he has no tanks....and I can't find his navy without submersibles
State Property is in and the revolution over.
Gandhi slipped a frigate past the picket line in the north and will wreck a fishing net but then he can be dealt with. He has no settlers ready but still has a couple of frigates and galleons. He sent an ironclad out to investigate Kohlapur which is undefended for now, hopefully he will accept the invitation and move in as I have opened a lane for him to do so.
Hannibal and Gandhi are now at peace.
I have two more turns to play and will get them in tonight.
I think moving forward on Flight rather than the Industrialization track will be a good next choice for our scientists. Fighters in carriers and bombers in Carthage when we get Radio will be a big help to our suppression efforts and help us keep a longer range eye on Gandhi, rather than picketing the sea lanes.
The Buddhist bloc remains broken. Washington has adopted Hannibal's religion, Confucianism, and is trading a resource to Hannibal for Musicals, though he has not opened his borders yet. That is going to be a threat in the future. Once he opens his borders to Hannibal a vassalage agreement is not far behind I think. That could mean war with Washington before we are really ready, much depends on what the agreement includes.
Frederiksberg
Deity
Another update:
Captured Carthage, now I have to hold it. Hannibal lost an artillery and four cavalry on two counterattacks (one attack on troops advancing from Washington's borders and another attack on the city itself) and another artilery unit in the city itself. Since he has no oil he has no tanks....and I can't find his navy without submersibles
State Property is in and the revolution over.
Well done! I guess Thapsus is next on the list then...
Bede said:
This means that we could accept a peace for tech deal at some point.
Bede said:
I agree that Flight will be very useful at some point - for instance for pillaging Gandhis uranium. But since we are now engaged in an offensive war I think we are better off getting Industrialization and tanks first. They will really help with this since they can capture cities while bombers can only pillage and reduce cultural defenses.
Sounds good! 
On tech path, flight is OK with me as it is a quick research. To get to Radio, we must have Electricity anyway. After Electricity, we can decide which we need more; Tanks or Bombers.
On tech path, flight is OK with me as it is a quick research. To get to Radio, we must have Electricity anyway. After Electricity, we can decide which we need more; Tanks or Bombers.
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