SGOTM 04 - Xteam

[Bede]

Gotta go with Fred on this one - transports are too valuable to use as decoys, and you can never have an excess of them on this map type.

Aircraft don't care about borders so the airspace thing should not be an issue IIRC.

And I have said it before - don't waste airpower on pillaging missions. Much better to land some infantry and tanks, use the fighters to weaken any possible counterattackers, then pillage with a tank and move the whole shooting match back on the transports.

And a spy on a sub can sabotage an offshore platform, or hit with a destroyer.

 

[Cactus Pete]

"Do want this? If the destroyers stay in port they will be destroyed when we capture the cities."

But we may not be able to capture or want to raze several cities for awhile (domination liimit), and their eight-turn moves make destroyers hard to anticipate. We do have multiple transports, and only Spain will remain a threat.

Air space is not the question. Eight spaces means eight horizontal or verticle tiles -- diagonal tiles count as one-and-a-half, and that 's the problem with bombing Washington from Utica.

"And I have said it before - don't waste airpower on pillaging missions. Much better to land some infantry and tanks, use the fighters to weaken any possible counterattackers, then pillage with a tank and move the whole shooting match back on the transports."

That may be a good rule of thumb, but I think this is a special case: Can pillage, land troops, then next turn take NY, land pillaging bombers in NY and then reduce forces in Washington with them (plus others) on third turn. By doing this we will keep our forces out of harms way and be able to use them at full strength against wounded opponents. At least that's the way I see it, having become such an expert on modern warfare.

Would suggest that we move warrior in Nidaros into Upsalla, hoping that will stimulate G into attacking the city itself.

 

[leif erikson]

But we may not be able to capture or want to raze several cities for awhile (domination limit), and their eight-turn moves make destroyers hard to anticipate. We do have multiple transports, and only Spain will remain a threat.

This is an important comment because it begs the question of what is our objective in attacking W? Should we wait a bit to allow for G to take a few of our cities before we embark on taking W down or do we take a few of W's cities and chill out for a while? I am unclear of what we are trying to achieve here.

Air space is not the question. Eight spaces means eight horizontal or vertical tiles -- diagonal tiles count as one-and-a-half, and that 's the problem with bombing Washington from Utica.

Yes, I believe this is correct.

That may be a good rule of thumb, but I think this is a special case: Can pillage, land troops, then next turn take NY, land pillaging bombers in NY and then reduce forces in Washington with them (plus others) on third turn. By doing this we will keep our forces out of harms way and be able to use them at full strength against wounded opponents. At least that's the way I see it, having become such an expert on modern warfare.

I also feel this is worth doing unless we decide to take NY and then gift it to H? Then it shouldn't matter much.

Would suggest that we move warrior in Nidaros into Upsalla, hoping that will stimulate G into attacking the city itself.

OK, it is worth a try.

Here is a to do list:
Set up a Spy network to monitor G's progress.

Start a war with W in which we would pillage his oil sources and take some cities while razing others. (The question of which ones still remains) Retain Assyrian as W's new capital.

Possibly give New York to H.

Try to entice G to take both Uppsala and Copper Mountain. Hold on to Nidaros for the time being.

W actually his oil resource at Philly quite well protected. Two Fighters in Philly and a SAM Inf on the tile could prevent pillaging by Carrier based Fighters.

Will hold off until Friday to play if we need the extra time for discussion.

EDIT - It might be more effective to send our first Spy immediately towards W's territory to sabotage the Oil near Philly. There is a Transport available in Verlamion to take the next couple of Spies to visit G but it can be moved to make the trip a bit faster while we make another Spy.

I'd love to try the Spy on the Sub trick but there is a Destroyer guarding the Oil Platform?

 

[Bede]

The way I see it there is a meed to hobble Washington before Operation Abandon to Gandhi gets into full swing as he is the last remaining of the other continental powers. When the time comes to face off against Hannibal and Isabel again the Cetlitc holdings should be well and truly up to speed.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Our goals with the war as I see them:

1) Prevent W from winning space race by reducing him to a couple of cities.
2) Capture Washington and gain control of the Pentagon.
3) Secure control of W's uranium sources.

The last item may be a problem since W's uranium might go to Hannibal. Controlling all uranium is important in the final stages of the game to prevent any civ from using ICBM's. The preferred way would be to control the land where the uranium is, but the uranium in G's territory we should be able to control by pillaging with fighters. Is it possible to pillage (by air) a resource that is guarded by a unit?

What about the wonder building and the GE's. Do we use both GE's for the space elevator or do we want to build the Three Gorges Dam also? (Mt. Rushmore is a national wonder and neither Rock'n Roll nor The Eiffel Tower seems worth the trouble to me). If we want the Dam we should act now because it takes a long time to build even if we use one of the GE's.

I also feel this is worth doing unless we decide to take NY and then gift it to H? Then it shouldn't matter much.

I believe the idea was to first give the city to H after we have used it for our own purposes (base for bombers).

EDIT - It might be more effective to send our first Spy immediately towards W's territory to sabotage the Oil near Philly. There is a Transport available in Verlamion to take the next couple of Spies to visit G but it can be moved to make the trip a bit faster while we make another Spy.

Interesting idea. But are you sure it is better than the brute force amphibious attack followed by fighter pillaging as suggested by CP? The offshore oil we can surely pillage with our many destroyers.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Our goals with the war as I see them:

What about the wonder building and the GE's. Do we use both GE's for the space elevator or do we want to build the Three Gorges Dam also? (Mt. Rushmore is a national wonder and neither Rock'n Roll nor The Eiffel Tower seems worth the trouble to me). If we want the Dam we should act now because it takes a long time to build even if we use one of the GE's.

I have no feel for how important these wonders are, but I would mention that we will have a new great person (unpredictable type) coming in Bibracte in 9 turns.



I believe the idea was to first give the city to H after we have used it for our own purposes (base for bombers). YES, that's exactly what I had in mind. Use it to attack and weaken the forces massed in Washington or possibly advancing towards NY with bombers. We will not need (or probably want) to gift it until the domination limit approaches. It will not be a productive city for us as long as H is in the game.



Interesting idea. But are you sure it is better than the brute force amphibious attack followed by fighter pillaging as suggested by CP? The offshore oil we can surely pillage with our many destroyers.

We may sacrifice an amphibious infantry or two (then pillage with fighters), but that seems well worth it to me to immediately deprive W of the ability to build powerful new units.

The number of American cities we capture will depend on G's actions. The important goal is to take W out of the space race and permanently weaken him so we can concentrate on helping India and undermining Izzie.

I'm averse to delaying the attack once the cruiser is in position (and by then more bombers will be able to reach NY, ready to devastate the American army).

 

[leif erikson]

Our goals with the war as I see them:

1) Prevent W from winning space race by reducing him to a couple of cities.
2) Capture Washington and gain control of the Pentagon.
3) Secure control of W's uranium sources.

OK, I agree with these goals but I don't want to get into a war and then sit and defend while he builds more units that are close to where they are needed while we have long supply lines.

The last item may be a problem since W's uranium might go to Hannibal. Controlling all uranium is important in the final stages of the game to prevent any civ from using ICBM's. The preferred way would be to control the land where the uranium is, but the uranium in G's territory we should be able to control by pillaging with fighters. Is it possible to pillage (by air) a resource that is guarded by a unit?

Yes, this is doable: while we are at war.

What about the wonder building and the GE's. Do we use both GE's for the space elevator or do we want to build the Three Gorges Dam also? (Mt. Rushmore is a national wonder and neither Rock'n Roll nor The Eiffel Tower seems worth the trouble to me). If we want the Dam we should act now because it takes a long time to build even if we use one of the GE's.

I think Three Gorges is certainly worth it to G, as well as The Space Elevator.

I believe the idea was to first give the city to H after we have used it for our own purposes (base for bombers).

Interesting idea. But are you sure it is better than the brute force amphibious attack followed by fighter pillaging as suggested by CP? The offshore oil we can surely pillage with our many destroyers.

Yes, the reason I was thinking about the Spy is because I wasn't sure we were really ready to conduct war. As I said above, getting stuck in a half war isn't always very much fun and requires more assets to defend.

We may sacrifice an amphibious infantry or two (then pillage with fighters), but that seems well worth it to me to immediately deprive W of the ability to build powerful new units.

The number of American cities we capture will depend on G's actions. The important goal is to take W out of the space race and permanently weaken him so we can concentrate on helping India and undermining Izzie.

I'm averse to delaying the attack once the cruiser is in position (and by then more bombers will be able to reach NY, ready to devastate the American army).

At the rate G is taking our undefended cities, Christmas will be here before he gets to Copper Mountain. Perhaps the most important aspect of warring with W is also to push him towards G?

 

[Cactus Pete]

"I don't want to get into a war and then sit and defend while he builds more units that are close to where they are needed while we have long supply lines."

Possibly it's different with modern units, but all my experiece tells me that we will have a decisive tactical advantage over W once we pillage his oil and uranium. Granted, our supply lines will be much longer (though I doubt that will be a significant concern, since G's reluctance mitigates the usual desirability of speed), but we have many good units already well positioned, and we will be able to build more and better ones than W. Perhaps more importantly, our tactical superiority should allow us to fight when and where, even how, we want to, as well as to frustrate W's attempts to reinforce. In essence, we will be able to divide and conquer and quickly put W on the defensive . . . the usual Civ scenario of conquest.

Kick butt, leif.

The only potential problem is W forming an alliance with Izzie. Anyone have any idea how likely that is?

 

[leif erikson]

OK, loading up the save and starting.

Will send reports from the front if anything important happens.

 

[leif erikson]

Progress to date:
Turn 445 – 1835 AD
Pre-flight.
First thing is to check requirements for the Three Gorges Dam Wonder. Requires 2,625 Hammers, wow!! Now where to try to build it? Haithabu seems the best place to build it in the old core. Will require 78 turns, minus a Great Engineer’s contribution.
Change production in Haithabu from Research to Three Gorges Dam.
Wake the Great Engineer in Nidaros and send him to Haithabu. The Great Engineer will generate 1,260 Hammers of the 2,625 needed, leaving 1,365. That’s nearly half so we shold cut down construction time from 78 turns to around 40. Use the Great Engineer, Three Gorges Dam due in 41 turns.
Send the Explorer to check on LA, 2 Infantry units there.
Put two citizens back to work in Beshbalik to avoid starvation loss of pop.
OK, looks good

IBT
G’s Galleon moves up to Copper Mountain, after pillaging our Clam.
New Sarai – Bomber => Bomber.
Birka Factory => Hydro Plant
Vienne SAM Infantry => Bomber.
Istanbul Theater => Barracks.
Sicca Granary => Forge.
G bombards Uppsala to 0%.
W gets a Great Engineer.
W completes an SS Casing for his spaceship.


Turn 446 – 1836 AD
Move Carrier within range of W’s Oil near Philly.
Move Warrior into Uppsala and fortify him as bait.
Move Infantry from tile NE of Copper Mountain, begging G to land troops there.
Move Explorer near Boston, contains two Infantry, two SAM Infantry and an Artillery unit.
Move all Destroyers and Transports out of W’s waters in order to declare.
One of G’s Frigates is sitting near Ning-hsia disrupting the food supply and he’ll pillage the Clam next turn. Move a Destroyer to cover the Clam.
Visit W and ask for Biology. He says we press him too hard.
Fly a recon mission from Thapsus with a Fighter and find a SAM Inf on the Uranium mine near NY.
Declare on W.
We attempt to pillage W’s Oil near Philly with Fighters. The first failed its mission, the second was shot at by the SAM Inf and lost 29% while the third was intercepted by a Fighter and damage 65%.
We attack W’s Oil Platform tile with a Battleship, sink the defending Destroyer (19.6/40 remaining) and pillage the tile.
Attack the SAM Inf on the Uranium tile and lose an Artillery unit, then lose a Tank (at 90+%) and kill the SAM Inf flawlessly with a SAM Inf.
Using Destroyers, bombard NY down to 6%.
Using three Bombers, attack the defenders and two Bombers hit and one was intercepted by a Destroyer, losing 26% of its strength.
Battle for New York.
Lose 3 of 4 Artillery softening up the city, the fourth killed an Infantry.
Infantry kills an Artillery.
Infantry loses to an Artillery.
Infantry kills a Machine Gun flawlessly.
Infantry kills a Machine Gun flawlessly.
Infantry kills an Artillery flawlessly, capturing the city and taking a Destroyer, two Transports and a Great Engineer with it. We get 168 Gold.
Assign the city to build a Theater.
Unload Transports in NY and move some troops to set up a blocking position on the Uranium tile. Pillage the tile using a Gunship.

Battle of the Philly Oil tile.
Artillery attacks a SAM Inf and dies.
Infantry attacks the tile and kills the SAM Inf.
Land the rest of the units on the tile and bombard Philly with the Destroyers.

Picture of Delhi.

We are currently at 55.71% of domination.

IBT
We are counterattacked by Artillery at both the Uranium Tile and the Oil Tile near Philly, one Artillery unit in each place and both are beaten off.
Gergovia Fighter => Gunship.
Kohlapur Forge => Granary.
There is an American Frigate and Caravel off of Hadrumentum.


Turn 447 – 1837 AD
Gandhi has a Frigate running around on a pillage fishing net mission and I decide to sink him. Attack him with a Destroyer near Beshbalik and sink him without loss.

Bombard Chicago with Destroyers.

Move for an attack at Houston.

Load Transports for the trip to Washington.

Rebase Bombers to New York.

Begin Bombardment of Washington with Destroyers.

Pillage the Oil Well near Philly with Infantry after the Fighters fail again!

Find an American Destroyer and Transport headed from Assyrian towards Bibracte. Sink the Destroyer with one of ours (67% chance) and come away with 24.3/30). Attack the Transport with a Destroyer (98.8%) and kill him, now 4.8/30, Yikes!!

Attack the American Frigate off of Hadrumentum with a Destroyer and kill him flawlessly.

Moving the Destroyers to Washington reveals a force of two American Tanks, two SEALs a SAM Inf and a Cavalry unit headed for our most experienced amphibious Infantry near Philly. I decide to load what hasn’t moved back onto the Transports to save them for another day. That will leave one Infantry that pillaged the tile and an Artillery unit that bombarded the city.

Decide to break here for the night. Save game and post.

The save is attached:

 

[Cactus Pete]

We seem to be in good shape.

I'd be interested to know why you didn't initially attack the SAM infantry guarding the Phily oil with an amphibious infantryman and then pillage with the fighters.

Have you moved our bombers into NY in preparation for an air raid on Washington? (sorry, no time to check save)

 

[Frederiksberg]

Three Gorges Dam due in 41 turns.

With some MM it should be possible to bring this down. Consider to convert a farm or two into workshop.

Gergovia Fighter => Gunship

Don't we need tanks more than gunships? We can always upgrade some cavalry if we need some extra. W has lots of counters for Gunships (SAM infantry) but only few counters to tanks (Gunships)

 

[leif erikson]

I'd be interested to know why you didn't initially attack the SAM infantry guarding the Phily oil with an amphibious infantryman and then pillage with the fighters.

I'd have to go back and check what the odds were? Artillery are more easily replaced than an experienced, amphibious Infantryman.

The irony is not lost on me that it seems we will lose him anyway!

Have you moved our bombers into NY in preparation for an air raid on Washington? (sorry, no time to check save)

Done.

With some MM it should be possible to bring this down. Consider to convert a farm or two into workshop.

Good idea, I'll check on it first thing. Always looking for something productive for Workers to do.

Don't we need tanks more than gunships? We can always upgrade some cavalry if we need some extra. W has lots of counters for Gunships (SAM infantry) but only few counters to tanks (Gunships)

Gergovia isn't producing a lot of Hammers. I should probably look at ways to make it more productive rather than build a unit. However, we are short of Gunships and New Sarai is pumping out a Tank every two turns.

EDIT - The other issue to consider is the movement of a Gunship and its ability to keep a tile pillaged if necessary?

I was surprised at how poorly Fighters performed. Even when we controlled the tile, the Fighter failed to pillage it. We had to use an Infantryman! It may be difficult to keep that tile from producing Oil, unless we take the city or send a Spy?

 

[leif erikson]

Progress Report:

Turn log
Reload and the message I get as the save loads is:
“Never bring a Sword to a Gunfight!”

Check Haithabu and, at size 17, it has no excess food and no Specialists! Can’t build a Workshop without decreasing the population, unless we can acquire Biology?
H, W and Izzie all have Biology but they aren’t thinking about any trades.

Recheck that we have seven Bombers and they are all in New York.

Change production in Gergovia from Gunship to Bomber.

IBT
We lose a Worker to an American Artillery unit near Konya.
Our Infantry and Artillery units near Philly die to a Tank and a SEAL.
Copper Mountain Battleship => Tank.
New Sarai Bomber => Bomber.
Turfan Bomber => Bomber.
Durnovaria Spy => Spy.
Durocortorum Battleship => Tank.
Tolosa Airport => Tank.
Hadrumetum Theater => Barracks.

Turn 448 – 1838 AD
Domination limit check, we’re at 55.82% of 62.

Sink and American Caravel near Hadrumentum.

Battle for Houston.
Attack with and lose two Artillery units.
Infantry defeats an Infantry.
Infantry defeats an Infantry and we take the city for 59 Gold.
Raze the city.

Battle for Washington.

Three Destroyers bombard Washington down to 8%.
A fourth Destroyer bombards Washington to 0%.
Begin Air Strike on Washington.
First two hit their mark while the third is intercepted by a fighter causing 48% damage.
The fourth and fifth hit the mark while the sixth is hit by a SAM Inf for 34% damage.
The last Bomber hits.

Decide not to attack from the Transports this turn, wait for another round of Bombing.

Infantry kills an Artillery near Konya, now 3/20.

Airlift a Tank from Tolosa to New York.

Rebase two more Bombers to New York from our home continent.

Bombard Philly to 0% cultural defense.

Load two Spies onto Transport due for G’s area in Durocortorum,

IBT
W loses a Destroyer to our Destroyer near
Our Infantry dies to an American Gunship near where Houston was.
Thaenae Fighter => Fighter.
Pasture is pillaged near Vienne.
The AI is really stupid as it pillages some of the improvements around Hittite.

Turn 449 – 1839AD
Near Vienne, attack American Infantry with an Artillery and kill him.
Attack American Infantry with a Gunship and kill him, now 20.2/24.
Decrease research to 60%, Computers still in 3 turns. Increase culture slider to 10%.

Battle of Washington.
First Bomber hits its mark. The second is shot down by a SAM Inf.
The third hit and the fourth was shot down by a SAM Inf.
The fifth one is shot down as well! So is the sixth one, by a Destroyer!!
The seventh, eighth and ninth hit their mark.

He has 11 units while we have 16. Time to give it a try.
An Artillery dies against a SAM Inf.
An Artillery defeats a SAM Inf.
An Artillery defeats an Artillery.
An Artillery defeats an Artillery.
An Artillery defeats a Machine Gun.
An Artillery defeats an Artillery.
An Artillery defeats an Artillery.
An Infantry defeats a Gunship.
An Infantry defeats an Infantry.
An Infantry defeats an Infantry.
An Infantry defeats an Infantry.
A Tank defeats a SAM Inf. and we capture Washington and 353 Gold. In addition, we destroy a Destroyer, three Transports, two Galleons and a Fighter.
We find The Pentagon in the city as well as the Angkor Wat.
Take the Transports into the city and unload all our units.

G sends out two Cavs to start pillaging our territory. Decide that instead of killing them we can build a wall of units to lead them towards Uppsala. Can’t hurt, so let’s see what happens?

Upgrade two Cavs to Gunships and find it is a huge mistake. Gunships are not considered city defenders, so the cities gain unhappiness at not being protected.

IBT
America counterattacks Washington and loses two Artillery while killing an Infantry and a Tank unit.
G continues to pillage all the towns around Hittite!!
An American Destroyer sinks one of ours near Leptis and pillages the Whale Boats.
Old Sarai Battleship => Marine.
New Sarai Bomber => Bomber.
Ning-hsia Bomber => Bomber.
Camulodunum Tank => Marine.
Istanbul Barracks => Jail.
Utica Bomber => Tank.
Hadrumentum Barracks => Tank.

Turn 450 – 1840 AD
Domination Limit is 55.94.

Sink the American Destroyer near Leptis.

Kill the American Artillery left near Washington.
Move remaining Bombers into Washington.

Drop a Spy off in our territory for use with G’s cities on our continent. Send the other to G’s core area.

IBT
An American Gunship attacks Washington and is shot down by a SAM Inf.
We are the most cultured civ?
Vienne Bomber => Infantry.
Durnovaria Spy => Spy.
The Indian Cavalry continue to pillage what would be their income????

Turn 451 – 1841 AD
Domination check is 55.94%.

We get our first look inside one of G’s cities. It has 14 smilie faces and 8 unhappy ones: +5 for “Its too crowded “ and +3 for “We yearn to join our Motherland”. Sorry, I can’t get them to show on the screenie.

Land the second Spy near Bangalore.

This stack looks like they want Washington back. Let’s see how they like Bombers?

We go six for six and this is the result. Don’t think they will be doing much damage to Washington?

Change production in Nidaros and Haithabu to Jail.
War Weariness is really getting bad. I think we should consider changing civics back to Police State?

Some other city views:

Save for the night.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Looks like the war is well in hand.

What happened to G's galleon that moved up toward Copper Mtn. on turn 445?

I may have missed it, but what did you do with the GG? I note that tanks upgrade to moden armor and get city raider promotions.

There's a battleship in NY that could probably sink the nearby destroyer, although you might prefer not to risk it and initiate the attack with one of the promoted destoyers off Washington.

If you move the culture slider to 40%, we get computers in one turn. Whether you decide to do that first or not, I agree that we need to get back to police state if we're going to stay at war and wait to see if G wises up.

Do I interpret correctly that G has no ww in a size 14 city? Be interested in what our spy reveals in Bangalore.

Keep up the good work.

 

[leif erikson]

Looks like the war is well in hand.

Yes, but where do we go from here? I thought that Seattle should be next but that we could raze it? Boston, Washington and Seattle are all so close together that it probably wouldn't be missed?

What happened to G's galleon that moved up toward Copper Mtn. on turn 445?

I let him sail away to the north hoping he would reload with troops and come back to Copper Mountain. It is killing me that his Cavalry are pillaging all the Towns to nothing, the income he needs to speed research! And he won't send them north to take Uppsala. I thought the AI was supposed to be smarter in the update?

EDIT - I should have also told you that it appeared to be empty and is currently up near Karachi.

I may have missed it, but what did you do with the GG? I note that tanks upgrade to modern armor and get city raider promotions.

He is siiting in Karakorum, unused. I have been waiting for the Airport to complete so I could send him over to the former Celtic holdings. Since we know we'll be keeping that, thought we should use him for an Instructor or for a Military Academy? We could also use him as an attachment to a Tank unit. This time of the game, I'm never sure what the best use is for them??

There's a battleship in NY that could probably sink the nearby destroyer, although you might prefer not to risk it and initiate the attack with one of the promoted destoyers off Washington.

OK, I'll have a look. Thus far, W's navy hasn't caused much problem. The decisions are harder with G's navy as I'm trying to let them live but they are chasing around our fishing nets all the time and we need to keep a couple of Destroyers close to cover the bets to allow them to live.

If you move the culture slider to 40%, we get computers in one turn. Whether you decide to do that first or not, I agree that we need to get back to police state if we're going to stay at war and wait to see if G wises up.

I think it might be better to move the slider and get Computers and then we can revolt back to Police State if the other agree that is the way to go. The War Weariness came on really fast, perhaps as a result of the pillaging by G?

Do I interpret correctly that G has no ww in a size 14 city? Be interested in what our spy reveals in Bangalore.

The only one of G's cities we have peered into has been Tartar, that he took from us. Tonight, we'll get a view into Bangalore and Delhi and see what is really going on.

Zaragosa belongs to Izzie and I took the screenie as the third Spy moves south to check on W. I think we'll need two Spies on the continent that has Izzie and W and H on it. One to keep H's new Uranium source pillaged near New York and the other to keep Izzie's Uranium pillaged near our borders up north.

Keep up the good work.

Again, next moves? I really don't have an appreciation for the domination limit as the cities we've taken haven't yet expanded. We have quite a bit of time as the larger cities are spending a lot of time in resistance. But G just refuses our offers of free cities. Until he gets moving, we can't take too much because of the limit.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Well done leif. And as always some very informative progress reports.

I have a few suggestions for the continuation of the turn set. I would really like to avoid the 3 turns of anarchy for changing to Police State. It will be 3 more turns when we decide to go back to Representation (or Suffrage). Maybe we need a cease fire or peace for tech soon. What about researching Fascism (3 turns) and then building Mt. Rushmore in Camulodunum (8 turns if we get a cease fire). If we throw in a couple of jails that might give us enough control of WW to avoid a civic change.

Right now I suggest you increase science to 70% to get computers in 1 turn as CP suggests. Increase Culture slider to 20%. Then go through all cities and MM to minimize starvation. Think about building some work boats for Carthage and for the places where fishing nets have been pillaged (Nidaros!).

Since we don't have that many land units available I suggest we forget about Philly for a while and concentrate our efforts on Seattle and Boston. How about using the last bomber to attack the stack outside Seattle and then move the transport near Philly and attack the two tanks with our amphibious infantry. Would be great if we could take out W's only tanks. With the tanks gone we should be ready to approach Seattle and maybe also Boston with land units. Would be nice with more tanks - we only have 3! I think we need them more than more bombers to get our attack rolling. We get the airport in Karakorum in 1 turn and after that we can airlift tanks built in New Sarai bringing them to the battlefield almost immediately. There are enemy destroyers outside Kerkouane and New York that I think we should sink immediately. We have several ships within range of both.

Good luck :thumbsup

 

[Frederiksberg]

Yes, but where do we go from here? I thought that Seattle should be next but that we could raze it? Boston, Washington and Seattle are all so close together that it probably wouldn't be missed?

I think we can keep both without crossing the domination limit. The benefit of keeping Seattle is that we get a base where our bombers can reach Philly.

I think it might be better to move the slider and get Computers and then we can revolt back to Police State if the other agree that is the way to go. The War Weariness came on really fast, perhaps as a result of the pillaging by G?

I'm sure that the WW is caused by the capture of American cities and by the fighting within American cultural borders. As stated in my previous post I would like to avoid the civic change.

Again, next moves? I really don't have an appreciation for the domination limit as the cities we've taken haven't yet expanded. We have quite a bit of time as the larger cities are spending a lot of time in resistance. But G just refuses our offers of free cities. Until he gets moving, we can't take too much because of the limit.

A rough estimate is that one land tile is about 0.13% land. New York expanding is only 2 extra tiles or 0.26% extra. As far as I can see we can capture both Seattle and Boston without having to worry about domination.

 

[Cactus Pete]

I'm not thrilled with the prospect of anarchy either. Sure would like to get a tech for peace. I checked, and W is supposed to wait 8 turns of war before being willing to talk. Perhaps we should ride that out. (A cease fire means eight more turns until negotiations are possible after we resume the fighting, which would be deja vu.) How many turns of war so far?

How can you tell that a galleon is empty?

It's not terribly important at this point, but lets use the GG. I'd opt against an academy because we should have plenty of units left over from the present campaign when we go to war against Spain. Make a tank or two close to unbeatable.

If we find G is not suffering greatly from ww, lets get rid of his destroyers and anything else that can pillage the nets. How about moving some navy (including a battleship, since he has destroyers now) from American waters to our west coast to keep G's navy contained for at least the intermediate term.

No doubt that we can capture at least one more city without hitting the domination limit. Closer calculation after that, but I suspect that Fredericksberg has it right. One more city captured might give us the gold we need to muddle through the ww. Also, after Seattle, we might be better off with SF and Chicago, which would not efect the limit as much.

 

[leif erikson]

I have a few suggestions for the continuation of the turn set. I would really like to avoid the 3 turns of anarchy for changing to Police State. It will be 3 more turns when we decide to go back to Representation (or Suffrage). Maybe we need a cease fire or peace for tech soon. What about researching Fascism (3 turns) and then building Mt. Rushmore in Camulodunum (8 turns if we get a cease fire). If we throw in a couple of jails that might give us enough control of WW to avoid a civic change.

I don't think Washington is talking yet. I was surprised by the War Weariness as it went form a couple of citizens to 6 or 7 in our larger cities almost over one turn. :yikes:

Right now I suggest you increase science to 70% to get computers in 1 turn as CP suggests. Increase Culture slider to 20%. Then go through all cities and MM to minimize starvation. Think about building some work boats for Carthage and for the places where fishing nets have been pillaged (Nidaros!).

OK, easy enough to do.

Since we don't have that many land units available I suggest we forget about Philly for a while and concentrate our efforts on Seattle and Boston. How about using the last bomber to attack the stack outside Seattle and then move the transport near Philly and attack the two tanks with our amphibious infantry. Would be great if we could take out W's only tanks. With the tanks gone we should be ready to approach Seattle and maybe also Boston with land units. Would be nice with more tanks - we only have 3! I think we need them more than more bombers to get our attack rolling. We get the airport in Karakorum in 1 turn and after that we can airlift tanks built in New Sarai bringing them to the battlefield almost immediately. There are enemy destroyers outside Kerkouane and New York that I think we should sink immediately. We have several ships within range of both.

Yes, I had planned to bring those units near Philly to Seattle to take it. W has been moving units back and forth and I had moved one Transport closer to our holding in Mehmed's old area to ensure we could hold it.

Using Bombers, it is relatively easy to take a city with Infantry right off the Transports. Thought about doing that in the next couple of turns with Seattle and Boston.

My biggest concern with WW is where we are trying to build Three Gorges Dam. So many citizens are revolting it will never be completed!!

My concern with Domination isn't so much about during my turn set but after if we make peace and the Oil gets reconnected. But we do have Spies headed in that direction.

@CP - I assumed the Galleon was empty as it didn't drop off any troops and moved back to G's troop area. I have no idea why it was on our east coast??

OK, looks like we'll try to ride out the WW and take a couple more of W's cities in this turn set. I'll try to go after W's Navy and, if G is reasonably free of WW, his as well. That means building more ships, no problem there except the WW.

Thanks.

EDIT - How are we ever going to get G to take our cities????