SGOTM 04 - Xteam

[leif erikson]

It sounds like some of you have been playing around with some test games. Could you post one?

Actually, the testing comes from preparing for WOTM06. Just a handful of random games played as Ragnar. Starting with Fishing and a food resource allowed me to grow to pop 2 and have a food resource ready to work when the Work Boat popped. Working this tile also gives us three commerce and helps to speed up research a bit early on. Playing Epic will require, with the additional hammer settling on the Plains Hill, around 18 turns for a worker. By that time we can easily have a Work Boat and a second pop point I'm pretty sure.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Made a test game myself:

SGOTM4 Test

Did a couple of trials:

Tech: Myst-Poly-Agri-Mining-BW
Builds: Wboat-worker-warrior-settler

Done in 2290BC with corn farmed and one hill mined. Worker was idle for 7 turns. Hinduism founded.

Tech:Mining-Agri-BW-AH
Builds: Wboat-worker-warrior-settler

Done in 2500BC with corn farmed and one hill mined and one forrest chopped.

Nidaros size 3 in both cases.

Hopefully you guys can come up with something better

 

[Bede]

If we have to make a choice I would say Path 2 is the better choice. Seven turns better in fact. Not having the early religion hurts less than not having the settler.

Much depends of course on what is in the fog, but all things being equal I would play to the plan that produces the settler faster.

 

[Frederiksberg]

I tend to agree. But there are many other options:

Tech: Agri-AH-Mining-BW-(Wheel)
Builds: worker-wboat-warrior-settler-warrior-warrior

Done in 2260BC with corn farmed, pigs pastured, one hill mined, one forrest chopped and two pop whipped. Nidaros is size 4 and Wheel is due in two turns.

Could have gone directly for writing also since we don't need a granary with this much food available 6+6+4 from corn, pig and clam.

Since we would like a fast tech pace in this game exploring should have high priority. The sooner we meet other civs the sooner we can start trading techs. Or modify our plans if we don't find any. Build an early wboat for this purpose?

 

[leif erikson]

Just played a couple of starts. For me, the big question is research (commerce) versus production.

In the first try, research went Mining => Bronze => Agriculture => AH => Writing Production was Work Boat, Worker, Warrior, Settler. These were all completed by 2440, although Nidaros was still size 2, almost to 3. When building the Worker, I worked the Clam and the lake, for +6 commerce. Really speeds up research while slowing the Worker 2 turns.

The second try, I researched Mining => Agriculture => Bronze and then went to Writing as I popped AH from a hut, not a good comparison. However, this was a bit slower as I couldn't chop until later. However, I used the same research scheme as above, working the high commerce tiles, which made the chop more important.

On another note, I received a PM from Gator who will be delayed in joining us for a few more days. I have not heard from Cactus Pete yet, so I hope he is able to join us soon.

Do we think we are ready to start? If we need some more discussion, that is fine. We have still not heard from two of our players yet.

I was thinking of this roster order:
Frederiksberg - UP
rrau - On Deck
Bede
Cactus Pete
Leif
Gator

Frederiksberg can start us with 40 turns followed by rrau with 30 turns and then each of us playing 20 turns as we continue.

Comments/suggestions?

 

[Frederiksberg]

I can probably play wednesday evening (CET) unless my plane is delayed (Away on business trip). I suppose this is soon enough?

I'm leaning towards not founding hinduism and prioritize getting out the settler early instead. Worker first and workboat first both seem to be very feasible opening strategies allthough the settler comes a little later in the worker first trial. On the other hand Nidaros grows more and production increases rapidly when BW is discovered and we can whip and chop. The workboat first is the most flexible path though because we get techs a little faster and have less problems keeping our worker busy. Of course he can always do some prechopping when we have learned BW but good tech pace is nice anyway if we want to do an Oracle slingshot to CoL or maybe even Metal Casting.

 

[Bede]

I'm all for flexibility and faster learning!

 

[leif erikson]

I can probably play wednesday evening (CET) unless my plane is delayed (Away on business trip). I suppose this is soon enough?

Yes, it is soon enough. No plane delays allowed, that always stinks!!

It would be very nice to have BW before the settler pops, in case we can claim some copper. And the chops sure help.

 

[sanabas]

I was thinking of this roster order:
Frederiksberg - UP
rrau - On Deck
Bede
Cactus Pete
Leif
Gator

Frederiksberg can start us with 40 turns followed by rrau with 30 turns and then each of us playing 20 turns as we continue.

Comments/suggestions?

I see one minor problem there...

 

[leif erikson]

I see one minor problem there...

I really shouldn't do that so early in the morning! My sincere apologies...
forgive me.

How about we try again.

Roster:
Frederiksberg - UP
rrau - On Deck
Bede
Sanabas
Cactus Pete
Leif
Gator

 

[Frederiksberg]

OK - I've got the save and will play wednesday evening CET.

My plan is something like this:

Tech: Mining-Agri-BW-AH
Builds: Wboat-worker-warrior-settler

Or as much of this as I have time for within the 40 turns.

I will check back here before I play and comments/suggestions are welcome

 

[leif erikson]

Plan sounds good. Might look at whether Bronze might help before Agriculture.

The difference in number of turns really isn't that great though.

EDIT - And watch out for Bears in the woods...

Good luck!

 

[Capt Buttkick]

Disclaimer: I haven't even opened my Warlords copy yet, but I understand starting priorities to be much the same. If I'm wrong, you may all consider the rest of this post as incoherent rambling

If this were a gotm, I'd have scouted the plain hills N NW, either with the scout (stay in place with the settler) or with the settler on the first turn.
Looks like there are more hills to the N and NW of that position and all food resources would still be in use.
Reason I'd scout first is of course you'll want the city to be coastal.

I think I'd tech: Mining --> BW --> AGR and build WB --> Worker --> Warrior --> Settler or even WB --> Worker --> Worker --> Warrior --> Settler
That last option means you'll need more hills in play than the three at the start cause it's chopping mayhem (and I love a food/hammer rich capitol, I can get commerce in my other cities).
The WB will be out after size 2 is reached so delay the Warrior until the Wheat is irrigated.

 

[leif erikson]

Hi Capt. Nice to hear from you.

The problem with N and NW is that it is no longer on the coast, so no Work Boat. N and N might be an interesting move, but we'd lose the chop!

I also like a lot of hammers in the capital. But I am greedy, I like to have a river too.

I am looking forward to finding Gandhi. Probably will see him when our city expands?

 

[Capt Buttkick]

The problem with N and NW is that it is no longer on the coast, so no Work Boat. N and N might be an interesting move, but we'd lose the chop!

Are you sure? I can't tell from the screen what kind of tile N N N is. If it's coast, you've got access for your WB.
It kinda looks like the coast line continues straight N from the forest N of the clams. But even that wouldn't be conclusive evidence cause the coast line could turn down south again after that

You'll lose a chop and might end up with even more sea tiles than you have now, so I wouldn't settle N N in any case.

With the luck I've been having lately, there's probably metal N NW anyway, so don't listen to me

 

[leif erikson]

With the luck I've been having lately, there's probably metal N NW anyway, so don't listen to me

Your luck can't be any worse than mine lately!!

 

[Frederiksberg]

I have played my turns. Things went as planned - no nasty surprises and even a bit of luck as we popped Masonry from a hut .

4000BC: Found Nidaros in place. First Tech is Mining. First build is Workboat.

3850BC: Meet Genghis Khan down south. As a fellow warmonger he respects us (cautious).

3610BC: Pop Masonry from a hut!! I also see Indian borders. It must be Delhi. The Indians are separated from us by a narrow strait.

3400 BC: Agriculture discovered.

2890 BC: Bronze Working discovered. We have bronze 3N1E of Nidaros.

2830 BC: Warrior built in Nidaros. Start settler.

2800 BC: Start chop.

I followed the plan workboat-worker-warrior-settler and Mining-Agriculture-BW-AH (Due in 10 turns). The settler will be built 10 turns from now due to the chop started this turn. My idea was to continue with building a mine on the plains hill and after that make a pasture for the pigs. I didn't revolt to slavery yet but we should probably do that before we found our 2nd city. Our scout got attacked by a panther and has just recently recovered his full strength. He's now heading south to find the Mongolian cities. The scouting he did to the north revealed that the "Indian Strait" is actually a bay or maybe even what we in Denmark (and Norway) call a "fjord". Still a mountain range is preventing us from reaching Indian lands.

With the settler coming out soon I guess it's dotmap time. My initial thought is to settle the city NW of Nidaros to grab the gold and the fish for some growth and happyness. The bronze spot has no nearby food so I think we should wait with this. It will anyway be within the borders of Nidaros when they expand next time (in 36 turns).

The save:

Scandinavia 2800 BC

Autolog:

Spoiler :

Turn 0, 4000 BC: Nidaros has been founded.

Turn 8, 3760 BC: You have discovered Mining!

Turn 12, 3640 BC: Buddhism has been founded in a distant land!

Turn 13, 3610 BC: You have discovered Masonry!

Turn 20, 3400 BC: You have discovered Agriculture!

Turn 30, 3100 BC: You have trained a Worker in Nidaros. Work has now begun on a Warrior.

Turn 31, 3070 BC: Barbarian's Panther (2.00) vs Xteam's Scout (3.20)
Turn 31, 3070 BC: Combat Odds: 4.4%
Turn 31, 3070 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 31, 3070 BC: (Plot Defense: +75%)
Turn 31, 3070 BC: (Class Animal Combat: +100%)
Turn 31, 3070 BC: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 31, 3070 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 31, 3070 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 31, 3070 BC: Xteam's Scout is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 31, 3070 BC: Xteam's Scout is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 31, 3070 BC: Xteam's Scout is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 31, 3070 BC: Xteam's Scout is hit for 15 (40/100HP)
Turn 31, 3070 BC: Xteam's Scout is hit for 15 (25/100HP)
Turn 31, 3070 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 31, 3070 BC: Barbarian's Panther is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 31, 3070 BC: Xteam's Scout has defeated Barbarian's Panther!

Turn 37, 2890 BC: You have discovered Bronze Working!
Turn 37, 2890 BC: Genghis Khan adopts Slavery!

Pics:

 

[Frederiksberg]

Like I said - dotmap time .

I like this spot because the new city can share the pigs with Nidaros and thus grow rapidly from the beginning. We also get the fish tile and all the gold within the fat cross and finally it has access to fresh water and to the Bay of India. Another feature - though less important is that it seals off the north of the continent for later use.

 

[leif erikson]

Looks very nice!! Good work Frederiksberg!!

Looks like we have room for two nice commerce cities, our capital as a production city and then a few others.

EDIT - Yes, I agree with your second city site selection. But we need to be able to protect it as Gandhi is close at hand...

With Gandhi so close, I think we'll need The Wheel to connect the Copper and Sailing to build a couple of Triremes to protect our fisheries? To develop the area around the Gems, Iron Working. Do we head for Alphabet and try to trade or research these things by ourselves?

We'll also need to think about a small army to protect against Gandhi's landings, although if he wants to build a couple of nice cities for us, we'll take them?

Roster:
rrau - UP
Bede - On Deck
Sanabas
Cactus Pete
Leif
Gator
Frederiksberg - just played!

Looks like Gandhi has a nice research start, no desert islands like in C III.

 

[rrau]

Does anyone have a link to the latest HOF mod or can tell me where to find it? I try to search for HOF Mod and it pulls up way too many threads.