Nice catch.
SGOTM 04 - Xteam
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Frederiksberg
Deity
Good thinking 
I checked the Civilopedia and it actually states that Diplomatic victory must be enabled in order to build the UN. Similarly the Space Elevator can't be built if Space Victory is disabled. Probably an easy way for the programmers to prevent the AI from building those wonders under circumstances where they seem to have no purpose.
Anyway this removes any speculations about the UN and increases our need to control the uranium and oil resources. Beeline for artillery and infantry after Combustion is discovered and then attack Hannibal? We allready know where his uranium is (SW of Thaenae and NW of Kerkouane) but we don't know where the other civs might have it - and most important: Does Gandhi have it? Maybe we should trade Railroad for Physics to find out. In the meantime our army can practice a bit with Mehmed. We do the Steel for Free Religion and War with Gandhi deal to break his DP with Hannibal and then attack him. Edirne can be razed to create a buffer zone to spanish culture and then we work our way south. Samsun is crap (raze) and Ankara probably also due to cultural pressure. It's likely though that Mehmed becomes Hannibals vassal at some point and that would end the war.
We have a chance of preventing Hannibal from getting oil by hiring 2 artists in Vienne. The city would then get next border expansion in 6 turns and start competing for cultural control of the oil field. Without oil Hannibal can't build bombers and tanks and it should be possible to take his cities with CR infantry and artillery (to counter machine guns).
Since we expect to be able to deal with Mehmed using our army as it is I think or commerce cities should focus on tech buildings like universities and observatories. We need 3 more universities before we can build Oxford (in Nidaros so that we can hire more scientists). New and Old Sarai should probably keep building military though to get the production bonus. We should remember to check up on Washington often and see if he can be bribed to adopt free religion. He has had a recent revolt so it's not possible right now.
When bribing Mehmed with Steel we should probably gift it to Izzy as well hoping that Gandhi will get it.
What about building The Globe Theatre in Bibracte? Would make that city an almost ideal place to use the whip. Even if we adopt Emancipation it could be handy because Bibracte will grow large soon.
Giving away cities to Gandhi might be a solution at some point but I would really like to see where the uranium is placed first. And where the aluminium is. Ideally we would like to give Gandhi a city with aluminium (if he lacks it) and the Space Elevator.
If nonone comes up with a brilliant idea for avoiding conflict with Gandhi I think we should put some frigates outside all his cities and try not to put them adjacent to any fishing boats. That will at least give us an early warning if he sends some galleons our way.
I checked the Civilopedia and it actually states that Diplomatic victory must be enabled in order to build the UN. Similarly the Space Elevator can't be built if Space Victory is disabled. Probably an easy way for the programmers to prevent the AI from building those wonders under circumstances where they seem to have no purpose.
Anyway this removes any speculations about the UN and increases our need to control the uranium and oil resources. Beeline for artillery and infantry after Combustion is discovered and then attack Hannibal? We allready know where his uranium is (SW of Thaenae and NW of Kerkouane) but we don't know where the other civs might have it - and most important: Does Gandhi have it? Maybe we should trade Railroad for Physics to find out. In the meantime our army can practice a bit with Mehmed. We do the Steel for Free Religion and War with Gandhi deal to break his DP with Hannibal and then attack him. Edirne can be razed to create a buffer zone to spanish culture and then we work our way south. Samsun is crap (raze) and Ankara probably also due to cultural pressure. It's likely though that Mehmed becomes Hannibals vassal at some point and that would end the war.
We have a chance of preventing Hannibal from getting oil by hiring 2 artists in Vienne. The city would then get next border expansion in 6 turns and start competing for cultural control of the oil field. Without oil Hannibal can't build bombers and tanks and it should be possible to take his cities with CR infantry and artillery (to counter machine guns).
Since we expect to be able to deal with Mehmed using our army as it is I think or commerce cities should focus on tech buildings like universities and observatories. We need 3 more universities before we can build Oxford (in Nidaros so that we can hire more scientists). New and Old Sarai should probably keep building military though to get the production bonus. We should remember to check up on Washington often and see if he can be bribed to adopt free religion. He has had a recent revolt so it's not possible right now.
When bribing Mehmed with Steel we should probably gift it to Izzy as well hoping that Gandhi will get it.
What about building The Globe Theatre in Bibracte? Would make that city an almost ideal place to use the whip. Even if we adopt Emancipation it could be handy because Bibracte will grow large soon.
Giving away cities to Gandhi might be a solution at some point but I would really like to see where the uranium is placed first. And where the aluminium is. Ideally we would like to give Gandhi a city with aluminium (if he lacks it) and the Space Elevator.
If nonone comes up with a brilliant idea for avoiding conflict with Gandhi I think we should put some frigates outside all his cities and try not to put them adjacent to any fishing boats. That will at least give us an early warning if he sends some galleons our way.
Heard back from Gyathaar. He suggested we do what Brother Bede was already clever enough to do.
Fredricksberg's post sounds like a reasonable way to proceed to me.
On the Gandhi situation, it seems to me he has consistently landed in pretty close to the same spots. Stationing some Frigates, and later Destroyers, near there to intercept them seems like it might work?
Fredricksberg's post sounds like a reasonable way to proceed to me.
On the Gandhi situation, it seems to me he has consistently landed in pretty close to the same spots. Stationing some Frigates, and later Destroyers, near there to intercept them seems like it might work?
That will work for his cities other than Bombay and Bangalore; however, for those two cities, we will need to completely block egress, as galleons can land units on our continent on same turn before we could intercept them. I am not confident that our mere presence in the straits will intimidate him. Although this will reduce G's commerce, I think it is the lesser of two evils.
As Gator has been absent from the discussions and play is getting more complex, what about the participants providing a to-do list for him?
Frederiksberg
Deity
I think this is a good idea not only for this turn set but in general because it's easy to forget something that whas discussed many post's ago. This is actually the reason that I post a to-do list before my own turn sets. That way I can get feedback if I have forgotten or misunderstood something.
What about the length of the turn sets. I think 20 turns is way too many at this point of the game and the quality of play will suffer if we keep turn sets of that length (Unless of course people have a lot of time they can set aside for playing like CP had in the previous set.)
I don't think he is ready to play yet, so roster change time:
Roster:
RRAU - UP
Bede - On Deck
Sanabas
Leif
Frederiksberg
Cactus Pete
Gator
A to do list wouldn't hurt at all. It helps to make objectives clear and is a reminder with each turn that I could go back to and refresh my memory.
We decide what the turn length should be. With the complexity, I would recommend we go with 10 turns unless someone finds a block of time and asks for more.
Ten turns will be my limit for the foreseeable future. I might even beg for five.
I know that I can edit my own posts, but is there any way that we can edit each others? I ask because, if so, I'd suggest that Fredieriksburg edit his 10:22AM post into a more concise to-do list, post it, and then we (most importantlly including rrau) could add to it.
I know that I can edit my own posts, but is there any way that we can edit each others? I ask because, if so, I'd suggest that Fredieriksburg edit his 10:22AM post into a more concise to-do list, post it, and then we (most importantlly including rrau) could add to it.
If five is what you have time for, that's fine too. Please just let me know that you've completed your turn set so I can keep track.
You can only edit your own posts. Using the "Quote" button at the bottom of someone else's post allows you to edit what they write if you wish. You could even remove the Quote= code to remove the box. Or, there is always go old copy and paste.
Frederiksberg
Deity
Here are my suggestions (based on our recent discussions) in a list form:
Tech
Beeline for artillery and infantry after Combustion is discovered. Railroad - Combustion - Rifling - Artillery - Constitution - Assembly Line. Constitution is put late because it obsoletes the Great Lighthouse.
Trade
If possible trade Railroad for Rifling and Constitution (Washington) and Railroad for Physics (Hannibal). Call up Mehmed and do the Steel for Free Religion and War with Gandhi deal to break Mehmeds DP with Hannibal (when we are ready to attack Mehmed). After bribing Mehmed with Steel we should probably gift it to Izzy as well hoping that Gandhi will get it. Remember to check up on Washington often and see if he can be bribed to adopt free religion. If Izzy makes a demand we should try to meet it to improve relations.
War
Prepare for war with Mehmed. Preferably by moving troops in galleons since Izzy might close her borders any time. Speed is more important though so we should try moving by land through Spain also. When the war starts Edirne can be razed to create a buffer zone to spanish culture and then we work our way south. Samsun is crap (raze) and Ankara probably also due to cultural pressure. It's likely though that Mehmed becomes Hannibals vassal at some point and that would end the war. If we can get a tech for peace consider to do so.
Put some frigates outside all of Gandhi's cities and try not to put them adjacent to any fishing boats. That will at least give us an early warning if he sends some galleons our way. The two cities in the strait need to be blocked more thoroughly (can't consider the fishing boats here).
Empire Management
Adjust the culture slider to 0% and increase the tech slider. Hire 2 artists in Vienne to start competing for cultural control of the oil field. Our commerce cities should focus on tech buildings like universities and observatories. We need 3 more universities before we can build Oxford (in Nidaros so that we can hire more scientists). New and Old Sarai should probably keep building military though to get the production bonus. Start building The Globe Theatre in Bibracte when forge is finished and remove the Forbidden Palace from the build list.
Please comment
Tech
Beeline for artillery and infantry after Combustion is discovered. Railroad - Combustion - Rifling - Artillery - Constitution - Assembly Line. Constitution is put late because it obsoletes the Great Lighthouse.
Trade
If possible trade Railroad for Rifling and Constitution (Washington) and Railroad for Physics (Hannibal). Call up Mehmed and do the Steel for Free Religion and War with Gandhi deal to break Mehmeds DP with Hannibal (when we are ready to attack Mehmed). After bribing Mehmed with Steel we should probably gift it to Izzy as well hoping that Gandhi will get it. Remember to check up on Washington often and see if he can be bribed to adopt free religion. If Izzy makes a demand we should try to meet it to improve relations.
War
Prepare for war with Mehmed. Preferably by moving troops in galleons since Izzy might close her borders any time. Speed is more important though so we should try moving by land through Spain also. When the war starts Edirne can be razed to create a buffer zone to spanish culture and then we work our way south. Samsun is crap (raze) and Ankara probably also due to cultural pressure. It's likely though that Mehmed becomes Hannibals vassal at some point and that would end the war. If we can get a tech for peace consider to do so.
Put some frigates outside all of Gandhi's cities and try not to put them adjacent to any fishing boats. That will at least give us an early warning if he sends some galleons our way. The two cities in the strait need to be blocked more thoroughly (can't consider the fishing boats here).
Empire Management
Adjust the culture slider to 0% and increase the tech slider. Hire 2 artists in Vienne to start competing for cultural control of the oil field. Our commerce cities should focus on tech buildings like universities and observatories. We need 3 more universities before we can build Oxford (in Nidaros so that we can hire more scientists). New and Old Sarai should probably keep building military though to get the production bonus. Start building The Globe Theatre in Bibracte when forge is finished and remove the Forbidden Palace from the build list.
Please comment
We have Constitution, I assume you mean Corporation?
I think we should also place a fleet of at least 4, and preferably 5 or 6, Frigates or Ironclads to the west southwest of Hittite to intercept whatever comes our way and allow for healing of units. The question is what military units do you think we should build? I think Cannons should have priority, at least at first. Then we should consider replacing the obsolete units, that modernizes the force and allows us not to increase the total size as we disband obsolete units and we won't need to pay for upgrades. We have 21 Grenadiers, do we need any more Berserkers we can upgrade before Rifling takes away our ability to build them??
Frederiksberg
Deity
leif erikson said:
Yes, this was a little test to see if you are reading my posts .leif erikson said:
Sound right to me. We should be prepared to sink any indian vessels coming our way.
leif erikson said:
I would say primarily cannons as you suggest. And maybe a few ironclads for defense. Maybe a couple of machine guns for city defense. And of course destroyers when we get Combustion.
I will have no time to contribute until tonight, but a quick read causes me to quickly point out that researching Corporation will obsolete the Great Lighthouse.
See now that this has already been pointed out, but sems inconsistent with recommendation to trade RxR to W for Construction and Rifling.
See now that this has already been pointed out, but sems inconsistent with recommendation to trade RxR to W for Construction and Rifling.
Yes, but iirc, no Corporation, no Infantry. As Frederiksberg pointed out, we can put it off as long as possible, but we will have to have it.
We would need one more beserker from NS to allow the Great General just north of NS to upgrade four of them to CR3 (with one getting a free upgrade to grenadier or possibly rifleman). The only good alternative that I can think of is to add a military instuctor to OS. Which is the better use of the GG? Though upgrading beserkers with their amphibious ability is great militarily, because we are behind in tech, I don't think we can afford to continue to do much more of that.
Since Mehmed may soon become H’s vassal, we should go after the cities we want to keep first. Certainly Samsun would be the least desirable and furthest away. I note that Ankara has an academy and is not on a hill so that might make it rate as #4 on the list (and possibly a keeper), with Erdine #5.
Not sure we should raze Erdine at the beginning of the war. It is on a hill and will consume multiple units to capture, then we would just raze it. On the other hand, not razing it will slow our progress south . . . but thinking we can use galleons and, after taking Bursa, hug the Ottoman east coast.
Frederiksberg
Deity
Cactus Pete said:
A military instructor in OS would give naval units built there an extra promotion so I guess in the long run this is slightly better compared to getting 4 promotions and a free upgrade. Either way is fine with me - doesn't make that much of a difference. I agree that we need some tech focus for a while and I would rather use gold on upgrading frigates to destroyers than on upgrading more berserkers.
ADDITIONAL SUGGESTIONS:
Send our explorer in Burgundian south to scout the Ottoman cities
Get a unit into Tolosa (within two turns) and Vienne (when convenient) as MPs.
Build three longbows somewhere on the continent to replace the experienced grenadiers doing MP duty in Gergovia and Durnovaria and (in two turns) Tolosa (so they can be freed for combat duty) three cities that are not on our borders and dont need powerful defensive units. We should eventually use destroyers for defense if we need it.
We have 7 galleons near Ning-hsia. Keep one off our west coast for use as needed. Put 2 cannons and the four beserkers (after they are upgraded) now north of NS into two of them and sail them along the southern ice field to help in the attack. To facilitate this, immediately move 4 galleons (in two pairs) as a two-step chain along that route to speed progress. Having completed their roles (and assuming we maintain open borders with Washington, which seems likely) sail four of the galleons back toward Ning-hsia for eventual upgrading to transports and use in the inevitable Carthaginian conflict.
After the ironclad in NS and the dry dock in Nidaros are completed, would suggest building frigates to cross sea and help 2 frigates already there to protect galleons and bombard Mehmeds western cities.
QUERY:
Does rrau wait until our units are healed and moved into position before making the trade with Mehmed (and Izzie), or do we need to do it right away while we are sure he needs Steel?
REMINDERS:
Settler in Samarqand is intended for the hill east of OS, as per leifs suggestion
Ive been herding an Indian frigate (which looks just like ours) down our east coast toward an ironclad for elimination. Hope that can be followed through on.
Whoever plays next will need to be patient the first turn, because there are a great many units to determine what, if anything, to do with (now that the war is over), depending on the course(s) of action settled on; moreover, cities will need to be managed (presumably with science in mind) when they come out of the anarchy.
Send our explorer in Burgundian south to scout the Ottoman cities
Get a unit into Tolosa (within two turns) and Vienne (when convenient) as MPs.
Build three longbows somewhere on the continent to replace the experienced grenadiers doing MP duty in Gergovia and Durnovaria and (in two turns) Tolosa (so they can be freed for combat duty) three cities that are not on our borders and dont need powerful defensive units. We should eventually use destroyers for defense if we need it.
We have 7 galleons near Ning-hsia. Keep one off our west coast for use as needed. Put 2 cannons and the four beserkers (after they are upgraded) now north of NS into two of them and sail them along the southern ice field to help in the attack. To facilitate this, immediately move 4 galleons (in two pairs) as a two-step chain along that route to speed progress. Having completed their roles (and assuming we maintain open borders with Washington, which seems likely) sail four of the galleons back toward Ning-hsia for eventual upgrading to transports and use in the inevitable Carthaginian conflict.
After the ironclad in NS and the dry dock in Nidaros are completed, would suggest building frigates to cross sea and help 2 frigates already there to protect galleons and bombard Mehmeds western cities.
QUERY:
Does rrau wait until our units are healed and moved into position before making the trade with Mehmed (and Izzie), or do we need to do it right away while we are sure he needs Steel?
REMINDERS:
Settler in Samarqand is intended for the hill east of OS, as per leifs suggestion
Ive been herding an Indian frigate (which looks just like ours) down our east coast toward an ironclad for elimination. Hope that can be followed through on.
Whoever plays next will need to be patient the first turn, because there are a great many units to determine what, if anything, to do with (now that the war is over), depending on the course(s) of action settled on; moreover, cities will need to be managed (presumably with science in mind) when they come out of the anarchy.
That stinks!! 
Did you get any turns in?
Did you update the driver recently and, if so, can you revert back to a driver that worked?
I wish I could help you????
Did you get any turns in?
Did you update the driver recently and, if so, can you revert back to a driver that worked?
I wish I could help you????
Frederiksberg
Deity
I think CP claimed to be a playing Warlords at monarch level when this SGOTM started. Must have improved since then: WOTM7 Results.
Too bad with rrau's computer.
Too bad with rrau's computer.
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