SGOTM 04 - Xteam

[leif erikson]

If we raze cities, wouldn't we increase the probability of W becoming Izzie's vassal, which is not to my liking. W is weakened significantly (and we could choose to do more without city destruction or capture in an additional turn); plus, we can monitor his progress with spies. Spain is now the far greater threat.

Razing cities is not my choice either. Spies can sabotage production of Space Ship parts as long as we have the Gold available to pay for it. Izzie is pretty far away from any Space Ship parts as she has, iirc, 46 turns to go on Apollo. W has four completed, I think.

I've suggested tantalizing G with a worker. It might also be worth a desperate try to put a single fighter or bomber in one of our abandoned cities after aggravating G with it. Frustrating that knowledge of some arcane aspect of the AI's programing may be determinative in the game.

Perhaps placing a Worker in an undefended city, say Uppsala?

BTW, how is a winner determined if G doesn't get to the stars for any team?

I checked and it is not addressed in the game announcement. Sorry, I don't know the answer to this.

Hence the suggestion to create a corridor to one of our cities that traverses as few valuable developed tiles as possible. May not be worth even trying, but I wanted to make sure I got the concept across. Also, if he does eventually enter our cities, we can provide workers.

In a way, we have done this. There is a line of units that stretches from Hittite to Uppsala that dares G to cross it but allows him passage to Uppsala. He has pillaged rather than follow that road? Perhaps when he has had his fill of pillage, he'll head north? With those three Gold hills and the food resource, you'd think he be there yesterday. The only thing I can think of is if the programming takes into account distance from the Capital? Would it help to build the Palace further south?

 

[Frederiksberg]

I don't see any immediate need for eliminating W. He may still be of use as a tech partner for Gandhi. I would also like to wait with capturing more cities due to the problem with the domination limit. I think we have the option of waiting a while and see if we can get Gandhi to take some cities from us first. A peaceful period is also useful with respect to getting the Space Elevator and the Three Gorges Dam built. Right now WW is killing our productive cities. In preparation for the coming wars we could build Mt. Rushmore and some jails in the larger cities.

 

[Cactus Pete]

I don't see any immediate need for eliminating W. He may still be of use as a tech partner for Gandhi. I would also like to wait with capturing more cities due to the problem with the domination limit. I think we have the option of waiting a while and see if we can get Gandhi to take some cities from us first. A peaceful period is also useful with respect to getting the Space Elevator and the Three Gorges Dam built. Right now WW is killing our productive cities. In preparation for the coming wars we could build Mt. Rushmore and some jails in the larger cities.

What he said.

Looking at the save . . . There are no foreign trade routes in Chittagong. Can't find a reason for this. Is it also true in other cities?

It will be difficult to put any quick pressure on Atlanta. However, W has only two workers, so how about extreme pillaging with all available (even healing) units (gold, copper, and especially aluminium mines first) for the remainder of this turn and then see what we can get for peace. If pillaging does not get us a tech, then getting W to change his civics would have some value. Perhaps Free Religion, but all three possibilities would have some benefit to us or loss to him.

Check in again when I can.

 

[Bede]

I will be ready to take this on tomorrow. And I see a consensus emerging to end the war with Washington, het some war weariness reduction buildings in place, then start it up again if he shows any signs of accelerating SS production. Typically the AI will get the casings built and then stall for a while as research is finished and the costlier parts come available.

 

[leif erikson]

Thanks for the reminder Brother Bede!

Roster:
Bede - UP
RRAU - On Deck
Sanabas
Frederiksberg
Cactus Pete
Leif
Gator

Yes, I don't remember how much movement is left on the units. Pillaging before the turn changes may be difficult. Certainly there are enough air assets in place, though many are wounded, to do a lot of damage to W's area.

And I also agree with Frederiksberg.

 

[Bede]

Gandhi is being stoopid

Endured a couple more turns of war with Washington to try and pillage his aluminium and capture Assyrian in the north. Both objectives accomplished. He would not make a peace treaty including any tech on the opener so I switched research to Fascism, burned the merchant on the topic and after three turns of more war he allowed as how that would be okay so I took the deal.

And from there I went to builder mode. Researched Robotics and Satellites, started the Space Elevator in Birka and used the Engineer. We have no competition for it at the moment. Finished Rushmore in a Celtic city, built a bunch of factories, then sent the General to Bibracte to build us another Military Academy.

The three Nikitas wandered all over the place, looking into people's closets and cubbyholes. Not a whole lot of interest was found, other than Gandhi's huge troop count in Madras and his navy way up in the northern corner. When the time came I lost a Nikita sabotaging a thruster in Washington's most productive city, but she was quickly replaced and the others came through by sabotaging it twice when it was about half done. He needs to build three of those suckers and if you sabotage it at approximately between 35 and 50% done it will cost just shy of 3 grand. That seems to be the best buy out there. The casings would have been too easy to replace. Our income stream with research off will accumulate the ready in about 4 turns, so figure it from there. Pretty soon he will start to feel a lot like the Achilles in the famous race with the hare (some old fable about going half the distance to the goal at every step and never reaching it).

I threw the bomb with 9 turns left

and that is the result.

Judging from the numbers shown in the city screen after the sabotage, the AI production bonuses apply to SS parts, BTW.

So what did I mean about Gandhi begin stoopid, simply this:

Both Uppsalla and Copper Mountain are open for the taking, yet he never once moved a cavalryman or rifle towards either town. Yet he sailed three galleon loads of cavalry to Hadrementum and made a landing. Two tanks and a couple of grunts later they were dead.

And to top it off he keeps sending ironclads along the coast to Istanbul, hoping to sabotage the fishing nets. All he really accomplishes is promoting the destroyer fleet.

With Robotics in war weariness counters in most of the productive cities we are back to training up troops (MechInf and Gunships right now as Izzyhas tanks)

Washington has still not reconnected his oil and we control all of the aluminium in the world right now. GW had two sources, one was taken by a cultural expansion at Konya, the other is watched by a Nikita.

I took a lot of pictures of various cities and capitols across the world, but there really is very little of note beyond this one

I think he more troops in that one city than we have in our whole army!

We need more airlift capacity both home and abroad and I queued a couple of those up in various places.

The former American towns, with the exception of Washington are fighting major cultural battles against GW and Hannibal just to keep themselves fed.
Carthage has its workboats out and even built one for New York's oil platform.

The only reason to start a war right now would be to relieve the cultural pressures in old Carthage and America. We can keep a lid on the SS projects with spies and cash, I think. We will finish the Space Elevator at about the time Izzy finishes Apollo, and we still hold the monopoly on the enabler tech (Washington lacks computers)

 

[leif erikson]

Nice work Brother Bede!!

Sounds like we can hold our end of the bargain but G just can't seem to find a way to the stars, especially through our city exchange program?? Perhaps we should open up and let him have the former Hannibal space? Anything to give him more cities??

Roster:
RRAU - UP
Sanabas - On Deck
Frederiksberg - On Deck (most likely)
Cactus Pete
Leif
Gator
Bede - just played!

I'll have a peek in the morning when my brain is working again, if I can find it...

 

[leif erikson]

Very interesting situation.

Checking the Atlanta city screen, it shows that W has Oil in the resource bin, so we should prolly check to see if he has it reconnected. I think he does. Also, W has discovered Fission. I think we need to keep an eye on his city production through Spies to monitor if he starts Manhattan Project. It can be built without Uranium, but Uranium allows double speed.

G has two sources of Uranium. I'm sure he'd be glad to trade one for a profit to W if he asked him real nice? In addition, we need to see what H is doing as he has some Uranium as well, although no Fission as yet.

We are at 59.25% of Domination, at 62%. That margin is getting razor thin!
Even if we raze some cities, we could jump over it by accident.

I think that if G shows up in old Carthage or in our old core, we should prolly start giving ground. He's never going to space at this rate!

 

[Bede]

I have already declared Uppsala and Copper Mountain as open cities. The trick is how to lure Gandhi's troops to come over and take a look Baiting him with workers and warriors may work, so rrau may have better luck with that tactic. I also pulled the line back at Hittite, but Gandhi has no offensive troops in that sector, just a couple of rifles and two machine gunners.

And if anybody is going to be nuked it is going to be the Vikings, not the Mahatma. We are universally reviled. Gandhi's issues with the rest of the world are pretty much limited to religion, though he lacks the excess reources and the techs to get any trading bonuses.

 

[leif erikson]

I have already declared Uppsala and Copper Mountain as open cities. The trick is how to lure Gandhi's troops to come over and take a look Baiting him with workers and warriors may work, so rrau may have better luck with that tactic. I also pulled the line back at Hittite, but Gandhi has no offensive troops in that sector, just a couple of rifles and two machine gunners.

He seems to have pretty much given up on our home front. I am wondering about whether we should allow him to have the former Carthaginian holdings, should he show up there again? As long as we hold onto the Celt lands, we should be fine?

And if anybody is going to be nuked it is going to be the Vikings, not the Mahatma. We are universally reviled. Gandhi's issues with the rest of the world are pretty much limited to religion, though he lacks the excess resources and the techs to get any trading bonuses.

You are right of course. We need a bad name in the hope that G's new friends gift him a few techs. I'd hate to have his troop support bill after having a look at Madras!

I wonder if it would help at all to swoop in and take about half of them out to allow for more income, and spending on research?

 

[Bede]

I would be afraid he would simply spend hammers replacing them rather than building useful stuff to support his research rate. Unlike C3C Warlords has a soft cap on military so that the AI doesn't burn its economy into the ground building troops.

Anybody here remember the Handy Deity AW games where you could practically hear the AI economies spinning into the ground as they kept building more and more troops just to have to replace them as they disbanded?

 

[rrau]

I just got home tonight. I'll play tomorrow or Saturday. PLAN: I don't care where Ghandi tries to land troops.........He can have whatever city he wants.

(Um....You guys DO remember that one time trying to sabotage a spaceship I had horrible RNG and lost us the game don't you?)

 

[leif erikson]

I would be afraid he would simply spend hammers replacing them rather than building useful stuff to support his research rate. Unlike C3C Warlords has a soft cap on military so that the AI doesn't burn its economy into the ground building troops.

Yes, I think you are probably right about this. Too bad, might have been fun?

I just got home tonight. I'll play tomorrow or Saturday. PLAN: I don't care where Ghandi tries to land troops.........He can have whatever city he wants.

I'm not sure this goes for Nidaros yet? Or should we?

I think we'll still need to tame Izzie a bit at some point?

(Um....You guys DO remember that one time trying to sabotage a spaceship I had horrible RNG and lost us the game don't you?)

XTeam just gets lucky on some days and, well, not so lucky on others. You just happened to be holding the mouse. The odds are in your favor, this time!!

 

[Frederiksberg]

I don't particularly like the prospect of having Gandhi capture cities scattered over our empire. These cities will most probably be under heavy cultural pressure and may not be able to contribute much to Gandhi's space ambitions (if he has any ). It would be better if he gets a coherent landmass like the northern part of our home continent - particularly Birka and Hittite when the Space Elevator and the Three Gorges are done. Would it be possible to use our destroyers to deter Gandhi from attacking overseas leaving only our old home as an option for him?

Hittite can be MM'ed for more hammers shaving some turns of the Three Gorges.

We lack work boats for the whale and the clam outside Leptis and Kerkouane.

 

[leif erikson]

It would be better if he gets a coherent landmass like the northern part of our home continent - particularly Birka and Hittite when the Space Elevator and the Three Gorges are done.

I agree this would be optimal. And we have tried to accomplish just this strategy for the last 40 turns or so with no result. In fact, not even any interest.

I have a some strange feeling it has to do with the proximity to our capital. Would moving it south do us any good at this point?

Please elt me qualify a bit? I think that if Gandhi lands a force of 6 or more Cavalry on H's old land, we should give way and see what he takes. I think we can allow anything north of New Sarai, once the wonders are built, to be taken.

Would it be possible to use our destroyers to deter Gandhi from attacking overseas leaving only our old home as an option for him?

We could blockade his ports to ensure no ship can leave except for to destinations across the strait to Uppsala? However, wouldn't that eliminate his ability to trade resources and other deals? That could hurt his economy too?

 

[Frederiksberg]

I agree that we have failed to implement the strategy of giving the northern part of our continent to Gandhi. Rather than changing the strategy I would like to improve the implementation. I fear that giving away random cities on other continents could even prove to be counterproductive since Gandhi might be stuck with cities that come under heavy cultural pressure making them useless and possibly prone to revolt. Could we post our destroyers just outside Indian waters in an attempt to block Gandhi from sending galleons across the oceans and force them towards our home continent? I think it's important that we keep trying to force Gandhi to concentrate on our home continent - particularly because we must find a way to make him capture Birka and Hittite where we are building wonders for him.

We haven't talked about tech path. My suggestion is to finalize Composites and then research Biology. After that there is no tech we have a particular need for so I suggest we stop research at that point and use the money to upgrade infantry to mech. infantry.

 

[leif erikson]

I agree that we have failed to implement the strategy of giving the northern part of our continent to Gandhi. Rather than changing the strategy I would like to improve the implementation. I fear that giving away random cities on other continents could even prove to be counterproductive since Gandhi might be stuck with cities that come under heavy cultural pressure making them useless and possibly prone to revolt. Could we post our destroyers just outside Indian waters in an attempt to block Gandhi from sending galleons across the oceans and force them towards our home continent? I think it's important that we keep trying to force Gandhi to concentrate on our home continent - particularly because we must find a way to make him capture Birka and Hittite where we are building wonders for him.

I think it is worth a try. By doing this, we are going to, by necessity, leave gaps (and we should try to stay at least two tiles from G's fishery resources to keep his pop up) through which his shipping can pass. If the opportunity and sufficient destroyers are present, we could try to shepherd it to our core area. The AI is pretty stubborn once it gets orders to go somewhere.

Should a Galleon head for H's old territory, do we let it go or... If we let it go, is this evidence enough that G wants to take H's lands from us and should we allow it to happen?

Unfortunately, we can't force G to take anything nor can we give it away to him. I imagine that if we give a city on H's old territory, it will satisfy him and then he'll stop there and head for old Celtia?

I can't seem to figure this out...

We haven't talked about tech path. My suggestion is to finalize Composites and then research Biology. After that there is no tech we have a particular need for so I suggest we stop research at that point and use the money to upgrade infantry to mech. infantry.

Yes, I think this is a good way to go. We will also need lots of cash in case we need to do some serious sabotage, especially Uranium and Space Ship Parts.

 

[Frederiksberg]

I can't seem to figure this out...

No, it's quite frustrating that there seems to be little logic in the way the AI acts. Maybe we can make him go for Birka when the Elevator is done. The AI often like to attack cities that are close to their own cultural borders.

Yes, I think this is a good way to go. We will also need lots of cash in case we need to do some serious sabotage, especially Uranium and Space Ship Parts.

Exactly - we need to fund our spies!

 

[Frederiksberg]

Got an idea. Maybe we should revolt to Universal Suffrage when Biology is discovered. Then we could cash rush The Elevator and the Three Gorges and move our military away from these cities sooner.

 

[Bede]

Our economy is big enough that funding spies is not really a problem for us. Jsut need to figure the money needed to sabotage that thruster at Atlanta every nine turns, and have enough left in the kitty to be able to do it again in twelve if she fails the first time. Roughly six turns of 70% research, followed by three at 0, and three more at 0 if needed, then back to 70% for another six turns.

it is getting Gandhi out of his hole that is the big problem. Short of removing every trooper from the home island I don't know what to do. I don't know why he chose to send his boats to Hannibaland. He had to know he would face more than just a couple of longbows over there.

I had deliberately pulled the destroyers back into our waters and had left a single on guard at the southernmost town - Delhi I think it was, and let his task group sial right past. I wanted to see where theyh would go.