SGOTM 05 - Geezers

markh · Sep 7, 2007

Some more stuff got done. :goodjob:

Qin seems a little too quite, I agree. Did you check whether peace is possible with AIs ?

Roster

Sam - just played

drhirsch - UP (as I have not heard anything from you for a while I will be strict on the 24h "got it" rule. If you do not post until 9 p.m. today Harbourboy will be up

Harbourboy - on deck (will be away from 11th Sep - 4th Oct)
AgedOne
markh
The-Hawk
Pariah

Sam_Yeager · Sep 7, 2007

markh said:
Qin seems a little too quite, I agree. Did you check whether peace is possible with AIs ?

I checked at the start of my turnset but I forgot to check later. :blush:

Harbourboy · Sep 7, 2007

Let me know if I need to play. I should be able to fit one more set in before I go away.

markh · Sep 7, 2007

That's the reason I will handle the rule strictly this time. This ensures you can have another round before you leave. If drhirsch reports back tomorrow he can take it after you, but let's wait until 9pm.

The-Hawk · Sep 7, 2007

Sam_Yeager said:
I hope he's not building a ginormous invasion force.

I hate ginormous invasion forces. Hate gigundo ones as well.

I agree we might not wait on maces to expand. Only way we are gonna finish this easily is to get a few cities on lush island producing military. Gonna suck if we need build lots of navy to fight off caravels, total waste of hammers. If we can get peaxe with Qin and Cyrus, then the long distance transport is a viable option.

Harbourboy · Sep 8, 2007

I will up at all sorts of strange hours watching the Rugby World Cup so I should easily be able to fit my turns in.

So what are our short term objectives?

Sam_Yeager · Sep 8, 2007

Harbourboy said:
I will up at all sorts of strange hours watching the Rugby World Cup so I should easily be able to fit my turns in.

I suspect you may find it more enjoyable viewing than myself.

Although the argentines have shown that all is possible. :king:

Harbourboy said:
So what are our short term objectives?

We need to get our forces from Old Sarai to Corinth before we can start doing something about Toku. Unforrtunately Qin's caravel to the north of silver island is making that awkward. I've put up a sign to show it's rough position.

A lot of the cities are configured for :gold:

and growth rather than hammers, mainly to speed up research. Both Turfan and Corinth will reach their happy caps soon. Bear in mind that the happy cap for Corinth is higher than normal due to the units stationed there.

New Sarai grows next turn and the workers next to it can start on the silver mine in a couple of turns which should raise our happy caps.

Harbourboy · Sep 8, 2007

So do I need to play or not?

Sam_Yeager · Sep 9, 2007

Harbourboy said:
So do I need to play or not?

drhirsch hasn't postd a 'got it' so go for it.

Harbourboy · Sep 9, 2007

Righto, I will probably play during the South Africa v Samoa match.

Harbourboy · Sep 9, 2007

Got it..............

It appears that Toku is massing his forces.

Yes.

Done

Summary of turnset:
- We lost two (count 'em) galleys to Qin (he of the circumnavigation-powered caravel)

- Toku invaded Athens but luckily only with two swordsmen, so we fought them off for no losses or pillaging
- Toku has forces to burn and really should invade us
- Nobody wants peace

Spoiler :

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm5/Geezers_SG005_AD1340_01.Civ4SavedGame

I don't think this game is going very well. It looks far too much like one of my single player games, which is not a good thing. I hope you guys can pull off some sort of miracle while I am away! Maybe Samoa can do better than Temujin......

The-Hawk · Sep 9, 2007

Looks like you did fine. Defense of Athens was critical. I agree we seem to be slipping behind the AI's, but maybe it is not insurmountable. Remember, AIs fight like crap, so if we get a decent force of maces on lush island, Togu will run through his numbers very quickly. The bad news is Cyrus and Asoka have maces already. If they decide to concentrate on whacking us, we will die quickly.

I think the loss of the galleys is a sign of things to come. We are not going to be able to get control of the seas. I think our strategy should be:

research to maces asap
concentrate on building them in Corinth and Athens
keep trying to get a few units past the caravels from main island (this may part may not be pretty)
grab a couple of cities on lush island from Togu
switch our original island over to commerce and research (minimize hammers), use our lush island cities to build maces

My recommendations for the next turnset.

I think we need to research CS next (not Compass).
Togu is about to land a settler on silver island, with a triple promoted LB. With that LB we might never get him off. If the barb sword suicides on the LB and wounds it, we might want to try to take it with the chariot. Otherwise, we'll need to build a couple of units in New Sarai to capture the city.
I would not leave the galley protecting the fish. If a caravel comes along, the galley will simply get killed and we'll eventually lose the fish anyhow. I think our galleys need to concentrate on trying to bring forces over. He should head over to our original island and get some troops (and hope the caravels have moved on).
Another military unit in Athens would be good... next time, the AI might bring a better invasion force.
Beshbalik: I would work the town, not the forest. 4 gold is much more impt than 1 hammer.
When Old Sarai grows, work the iron. It will stagnate, but added population isn't buying us much.
New Sarai: I would work the stone. It will stagnate growth but speed up the LH. That farm is pretty unproductive.
When Turfan finishes the spear, galley next. We need to get units over to lush island asap.

/EDIT: One other thought... our GP is pretty close. At this point, I think we are better off using him as a super specialist. He will want to lightbulb Theology. No point in that (the key AI's already have it, so no trade value). I think the shrine is not so helpful now. Corinth and Athens need to be building military, not missionaries. Any thoughts on this???

AgedOne · Sep 9, 2007

Y'ouch! Caravel horror! Things are certainly hotting up - or would be if the AI decided to go for us.
Well done, Harbourboy, for getting us through a worrying turnset. Don't get too despondent. We'll ensure that we are still here on your return

I guess that I'm up next, and I'm evidently going to be facing a pretty trying time. I'm looking carefully at your comments, Hawk. I'll not be playing immediately. Give us all time to input more comments before I do.

I like your comment about AI fighting like crap, Hawk. Very true. I've just been playing a sp game from a hopeless position where I should have been pounded into dust by the AI. Due to numerous mystifying decisions by the AI generals, I survived for scores of turns and gained loads of promotions into the bargain! Some of the main enemy moves that I'll be looking out for in the near future are: attacking across rivers when they didn't need to, moving to unguarded terrain when they didn't need to, and the favourite manoeuvre - failing to attack when their first attacks have left wounded defenders in the city.

Let's hope for plenty of that from Toku!

Sam_Yeager · Sep 9, 2007

Harbourboy said:
[- We lost two (count 'em) galleys to Qin (he of the circumnavigation-powered caravel)

Not only that but we lost another galley to Toku so we only have one galley left.

I'm not so sure about dropping Compass for CS. Compass & Optics is 23 turns. CS is 33 turns. All this is at the current research rate. Our seas have been a happy hunting ground for Qin so I can't see him upping sticks in the near future. If anything he'll be reinforced by another caravel.

As far as Toku's landing party goes I would be inclined to move both the chariot and spear up towards his likely land point to make sure he dies. I assume he'll head for the iron but maybe he still thinks he can resettle his city by the silver?

Harbourboy · Sep 9, 2007

Oh yeah, the other point to add is that Qin would not accept peace for all the tea in China.

Pariah · Sep 10, 2007

AgedOne said:
I like your comment about AI fighting like crap, Hawk. Very true. I've just been playing a sp game from a hopeless position where I should have been pounded into dust by the AI..

True enough, but AIs also have a knack for outnumbering you to the point where lousy throwaway tactics can still win the day. I don't know how they build so many units so quickly. For now, all we can do is dig in with our best defenders, and keep a strong attack stack in Corinth to pick off ill-positioned enemies 1 or 2 tiles away.

markh · Sep 10, 2007

Nice turns, HB. :goodjob:

We should keep an eye on Toku. Samurais are pretty unpleasant, so we should train some crossbowmen in advance.

I hope some AI wars break out soon. Anyway it seems we will have a pretty hard time going for war. I still feel we need to get some scientists to lightbulb a few techs. We are getting behind quite considerably. The other way to get techs is to hurt one really bad, but I can't see this happening some time soon and especially Cyrus is heading away.

AgedOne · Sep 10, 2007

Right. I could play my turn tonight (in about 2 hours time) or I could wait until tomorrow evening.
I can see that my main plan would be to defend Corinth grimly while trying to maintain research. Anyone who'll make peace, we gratefully accept - but that's really not going to be on offer, is it.
Not sure where we stand on switching research from compass to CS. I generally don't like switching a research once started, but I don't have strong feelings about it one way or t'other. Anyone else got thoughts?
A bit of mm around the cities - oh! - and don't lose the last galley!

Sam_Yeager · Sep 10, 2007

AgedOne said:
Right. I could play my turn tonight (in about 2 hours time) or I could wait until tomorrow evening.

Don't forget to do something about Toku's landing party. I made my suggestion about that in my earlier post. Most team members seem to have commented but whether or not to play tonight I'll leave up to you.

AgedOne · Sep 10, 2007

OK. Got it. I'm playing now.

Summary
We dealt with Tokus landing party on silver isle.
Its all been very quiet, and we havent lost any units.
Weve built a few military, galleys and a forge.
Our one pre-existing galley played cat&mouse with the caravels but survived!
Im a bit unsure about some of the builds Ive started.

The save is here: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm5/Geezers_SG005_AD1400_01.Civ4SavedGame

T280 (1340)
Galley heads for home island.
MM Beshbalik
MM New Sarai.
Prepared to receive boarders on silver island.

IBT
Tokus galley moved up coast west of Athens.
We learned Literature from barbs!
Toku completed the Kashi Vishwanath.

T281 (1346)
We moved troops to Old Sarai.
MM Old Sarai to work iron.
NB. No-one will consider peace except Toku and he wants Corinth!

IBT
Tokus galley reaches the coast by the iron but thinks twice about unloading.
Qins caravel appears again to menace our galley currently heading for homeland along the north coast of Athens-isle. Another Qin caravel is to the south and heading north.

T282 (1352)
Theres no safe place for our galley between the two caravels. Just hope were not noticed.

IBT
Our galley is not attacked, but one caravel now stands beside it.
Tokus settler party lands on silver isle and is attacked by the barb swordsman, who loses but knocks the LB down to 4.1/6.

T283 (1358)
We strike with our chariot at 55% odds and win!!! Thats a free worker, too.
Corinth completes swordsman build and starts a crossbow.
Turfan completes spearman build and starts a galley.
Our galley tries to run back east.

IBT
We learned Compass.
An explorer walks right up to our forces outside Corinth.

T284 (1364)
We use the explorer as training material for our new swordsman.
Our galley finds temporary safety.
We start researching Optics (16 turns @ 40%).

IBT
Islam founded in Pasagardae.

T285 (1370)
Nothing much.

IBT
Cyrus also has a caravel marauding around near Old Sarai.

T286 (1376)
Whipped the forge in Karakorum, just before growth. Will re-grow next turn.

IBT
Tokus galley destroys a fishing boat.

T287 (1382)
Following the forge in Karakorum, started a galley.

T288 (1388)
Completed a Crossbow in Corinth and started another.
Whipped a Keshik in Ning-Hsia.

IBT
Were allowing all our fishing boats to be pillaged, but we just dont have any protective fleet.

T289 (1394)
Old Sarai produced a galley. Started another.
Loaded it with sword and cat, and will attempt to sneak them across to Corinth.
Athens completed cat. Started a crossbow.
Ning Hsia completed Keshik. Started a forge.

T290 (1400)
Galley produced in Turfan. Started forge.
Lighthouse completed in New Sarai. Started a library (?)

Session Turn Log

Spoiler :

SGOTM 05 - Geezers

Deity

Another Original Geezer

Deity

Deity

Old Original Geezer

Deity

Another Original Geezer

Deity

Another Original Geezer

Deity

Deity

Old Original Geezer

Emperor

Another Original Geezer

Deity

Outside Influence

Deity

Emperor

Another Original Geezer

Emperor

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