SGOTM 05 - Gypsy Kings

Lehm · Oct 5, 2007

I agree to attack Alex and after that concentrate on Toku. But we don´t need the National Epic. Instead we could build troops. Did I already mention that I suggest building troops non stop from now on? The west way looks good but I don´t think we should split our troops now. We just need a couple of units more on the main continent to be able to start war. By the time we have enough units there we can still send units to the west. We are not so far away from that.

And why do you guys think we should care about wether to build troops or commerce stuff. We really have enough IMO and a market takes so much time to be build. Could be that I repeat myself but I vote for units units units...

da_Vinci · Oct 5, 2007

Lehm said:
I agree to attack Alex and after that concentrate on Toku. But we don´t need the National Epic. Instead we could build troops. Did I already mention that I suggest building troops non stop from now on? The west way looks good but I don´t think we should split our troops now. We just need a couple of units more on the main continent to be able to start war. By the time we have enough units there we can still send units to the west. We are not so far away from that.

And why do you guys think we should care about wether to build troops or commerce stuff. We really have enough IMO and a market takes so much time to be build. Could be that I repeat myself but I vote for units units units...

I think building up in the east a bit longer before we head west makes sense.

Are you saying that even in Athens, with several wonders and an academy, we don't want to specialize it for commerce and/or GPers? Or that we don't want to grow pop in EastBridge? The no more research approach is not a style I am used to, so it feels odd ... but still, I know it is done so I'm not oppossed to it. But we really don't need a few cities focused on commerce? Or at least one running scientists for additional tech?

Is the plan to get tech from peace extortion and cash from pillage/conquest?

dV

da_Vinci · Oct 6, 2007

Be wary of patching BTS to 3.13 until you read up on the problem it makes with current games ... another dual (if not triple) install issue.

I think originally AlanH wanted a 10/31 deadline for this game. Are we fine with that, or would we prefer 11/15 or 11/30? This is under discussion in the maint thread.

dV

Ronnie1 · Oct 6, 2007

I have to agree with both lehm and dV. I think we build troops only from now on, with the exception of putting the NE in Athens. I think the NE will pay for itself with at least 2 GP's before the game is over.

Have we decided on Conquest or Domination?

I think we should try and finish by 31 October.

hellwitch · Oct 7, 2007

I'm Sorry but i can't play soon as i am on emergency work trip and it is impossible to play for at least a week.(Migrating a DB with over 1000 tables and not to mention the other object if you know what that mean). So skip me for now as this can be even longer

Ronnie1 · Oct 7, 2007

The roster order is

Lehm - waiting
Conquistador 63 - just played
hellwitch - skipped by request
da_Vinci - UP NOW
Thrallia - on deck
g_storrow - in the hole
Scout 214 - waiting
Ronnie1 - waiting

Lehm · Oct 8, 2007

How long do you think can we delay our decision about conquest or domination? I am not sure about it. Usually conquest is faster. But as we don´t have the technological advance it could be that we need long time to kill everybody. Mh, I think we should decide after the the next wars to see where we are then...

g_storrow · Oct 8, 2007

I agree with building troops non stop also. If R1 thinks the NE is worth then I vote for that also?

Is the economy any better yet for keeping more cities? If they are reasonable on the mainland I think we keep them so we get as many hammers on teh mainland to build troops for the war.

da_Vinci · Oct 8, 2007

I can play tonight I think ...

Plan seems to be war on Alex. I might wait 7 turns to start it for Athens to pop border and "vote" the greek axe off the island. Do folks think we take out the city south of Sparta (Delphi?) early, so it is not a rear threat, or wait to take it later?

I think we just keep the city north of our Marble city ... or do we keep more?

We want to culture bomb that one north greek city?

If we want to finish by 10/31, do we want to play more turns per set? If I wait for the war, I can see playing 15 turns making sense here, or until Alex is dead.

dV

Lehm · Oct 8, 2007

To wait 7 turns is right. I also think 15 turns per player is a good idea.

But I think we should wait with the culture bomb until we conquer a Toku city which is close to Cyrus´ borders. The greek cities don´t seem to be threatend by enemy cities.

da_Vinci · Oct 9, 2007

Well, I only played about 7 turns, then an interesting decision point occured.

Turn 316: I whipped the market in Mecca, started a galley to ferry troops it makes to our mainland.

Turn 318: Alex put a Phalanx where we could kill it with ease, and scouting revealed he was very weak. I decided to whip an LB in Athens to start the war sooner, which I did this turn.

Turn 319: Toku declares on Alex right after we do, moved 5 sam 1 cb and a cat next to Pharsalos, defended by only two longbows. I put a stack near it, but our cats are not there yet. My hope was to take it after he weakened it if that opportunity arose. But he might have just declared on us to take it if we did that.

IBT 320 and 321 Toku takes Pharsalos. I razed the two other Greek cities near Kagoshima as neither had much hammer potential, just a drain on economy.

I am in position to take the last Greek city ... BUT

I got open borders with Toku, which I think he will end once the war ends. I sent the Keshiks to scout him ... does not look good!

Qin has caravels, so I researched optics after eng, started a couple of our own to protect sea lanes.

We might want to wait on killing Alex, abandon Kagoshima, march our stack through Japan and Persia, and through India (also OB there) to attack Spain, in concert with troops from the west. Once our stack is out of Japan, we can kill Alex and move troops there west.

Other option is to try to build up to go for Japan, but my guess is he declares on us before we are ready. Qin's navy is making it hard to get the troops east now.

So let's all take a look and see what we think.

dV

autolog:

Spoiler :

upload log:

Spoiler :

da_Vinci · Oct 9, 2007

Somehow, I managed to post this in duplicate, so I deleted this one.

Ronnie1 · Oct 9, 2007

Nice going dV! I haven't seen the save yet, but will get a chance a little later.

The roster order is

Lehm - waiting
Conquistador 63 - waiting
hellwitch - skipped by request
da_Vinci - just played
Thrallia - UP NOW
g_storrow - on deck
Scout 214 - in the hole
Ronnie1 - waiting

da_Vinci · Oct 9, 2007

Ronnie1 said:
Nice going dV! I haven't seen the save yet, but will get a chance a little later.

I am not sure what is so nice about it ... Pharsalos was the prize, and Toku got it :cry:

I did not anticipate his declaration of war, had my units in postion for the other cities when he moved in.

Still, if he really wanted Pharsalos, I guess he would have just declared on us right away to take it ... man he really hates us!!

I am also concerned at the strength he has ... Attacking him does not seem promising.

Maybe the nice thing is getting the OB and not killing Alex yet so we can run the stack to Spain? I really think that is our best option, to link up with troops from the west and go for Izzy, then Asoka (Izzy blocks our west access to Asoka ... but if the stack is strong enough, maybe it can hit Asoka by itself ... the barbs are there too (about time they do something useful!).

dV

Ronnie1 · Oct 10, 2007

I am not sure what is so nice about it ... Pharsalos was the prize, and Toku got it I did not anticipate his declaration of war

Toku always goes on the offensive when he gets Samuai, I had a feeling it would be difficult going east. As for Pharsalos, it was not really that great a city site, except for its strategic location of isolating the southern tip of the continent. I believe it only had 1 bonus resource inside the fat cross.

The question now is what's next?

It looks like the western route is the shorter safer route to the big continent. So how do we attack it from that direction? I looks like we have a couple options. Isabella or Asoka, Asoka being the more obvious choice as he is weaker than Izzy. We need a couple Caravels before we can really even sail safely.

There is a lot to consider right now!

Conquistador 63 · Oct 10, 2007

da_Vinci said:
If we want to finish by 10/31, do we want to play more turns per set? If I wait for the war, I can see playing 15 turns making sense here, or until Alex is dead.

dV

I hate to be always the pessimist (as I was in last SGOTM), but judging from recent pace, I doubt we can finish by 10/31. I think 2 actions are mandatory:
1. We should ask for an extension;
2. We should enforce the rule 24h to post a got it, 48h to play the turnset.

EDIT:
After a long while I browsed at the results page and 3 teams stopped posting saves before the end of September: Murky, Xteam, OSS. From their scores/dates, my bet is:
1.Murky lost or retired after 1010AD with 447 score.
2. OSS might have won by conquest after 1214AD with a score as low as 1099.
3. Xteam: same as above, after 1418AD and score around 1388.

CRC might have just finished after 1124AD with last uploaded save Oct7 but Lexad is already posting in other teams thread.

About our game, if we manage to finish it, I really doubt we can win without grens/cannons. I've proposed troops only earlier, but now I feel we should focus on commerce (working cottage tiles and even building a few commerce enhanced buildings) and research up to Chemistry/Steel.

da_Vinci · Oct 10, 2007

Conquistador 63 said:
I hate to be always the pessimist (as I was in last SGOTM), but judging from recent pace, I doubt we can finish by 10/31. I think 2 actions are mandatory:
1. We should ask for an extension;
2. We should enforce the rule 24h to post a got it, 48h to play the turnset.

I think we will need an extension, how does 11/15 sound? Or do we think it must be 11/30?

Do we need to try to play 48 hours after upload instead of 72?

I think 20 turns per set if we know what we are doing makes sense.

Conquistador 63 said:
After a long while I browsed at the results page and 3 teams stopped posting saves before the end of September: Murky, Xteam, OSS. From their scores/dates, my bet is:
1.Murky lost or retired after 1010AD with 447 score.
2. OSS might have won by conquest after 1214AD with a score as low as 1099.
3. Xteam: same as above, after 1418AD and score around 1388.

CRC might have just finished after 1124AD with last uploaded save Oct7 but Lexad is already posting in other teams thread.

About our game, if we manage to finish it, I really doubt we can win without grens/cannons. I've proposed troops only earlier, but now I feel we should focus on commerce (working cottage tiles and even building a few commerce enhanced buildings) and research up to Chemistry/Steel.

We might need grens cannons by the end, but in the short run cats and maces should get us a toehold in the west. Mecca and Karak and Athens could be dedicated to commerce, and the rest still making troops.

I still have not heard votes on the central question: fight Japan, or abandon Kagoshima, move the stack east via OB and either hit Asoka with it, or Izzy with it and the troops from WestIlse. I think we must concentrate army in India/Spain and hit there ... how close is Izzy to conquistadors? Might she join us in war with Asoka ... then we might get OB.

Why is this starting to feel like SGOTM 04 :sad:

dV

Ronnie1 · Oct 10, 2007

how close is Izzy to conquistadors?

All of the AI except Sal and Alex already have Guilds.

I'm not sure I would abandon Kagoshima, maybe just leave 1 defender, and if someone attacks, we could gift it to Sal or some other lower AI at that point.

I like the idea of going west much more than taking on Toku.

da_Vinci · Oct 10, 2007

Ronnie1 said:
All of the AI except Sal and Alex already have Guilds.

I'm not sure I would abandon Kagoshima, maybe just leave 1 defender, and if someone attacks, we could gift it to Sal or some other lower AI at that point.

I like the idea of going west much more than taking on Toku.

We will need some pikes, then.

I agree, leave a token defender in Kagoshima (or is the maint not even worth that?), but realize that if we move the stack to India/Spain, we can't hold Kag against any attack (and I am sure Toku will be wanting it back ... can we swap it to him for anything?).

Maybe Asoka is weak enough that the stack in the east can do some damage to him by itself ... maybe the barbs will help out. If we could get Izzy to fight him as well, we might get the OB from her to move west troops in. I think that is the way to go now.

dV

Lehm · Oct 11, 2007

To get Izzy into the war of course makes sense. But if she doesn´t want to join us can we reach Asoka? ( I haven´t had a look at the map) If I remember right we cannot reach Asoka without having OB with Izzy. So if she is not willing to OB we have to attack her, take some cities. then make peace and then go for Asoka.
I agree to Toku being too strong for us.
My only concern is about those planned caravels. It takes time and hammer to build them. And who could attack us if we go west? Do you think Asoka has so many caravels? I would sacrifice two galleys and just transport the units to the mainland...

SGOTM 05 - Gypsy Kings

Gypsy Jester

Gypsy Prince

Gypsy Prince

Deity

Prince

Deity

Gypsy Jester

Prince

Gypsy Prince

Gypsy Jester

Gypsy Prince

Gypsy Prince

Deity

Gypsy Prince

Deity

Deity

Gypsy Prince

Deity

Gypsy Prince

Gypsy Jester

Similar threads